Here's a question for you Hawthorn greatest team of all backers.

[Hawkk]

And hawthorn are 4-1 vs non vics in grand finals, rest of Victoria 2-7 (I think it's 8-6 overall)

In fairness the Hawks are 13-6 in GF's anyway and 7-1 since the 1987 debacle

Our record against Victorian clubs since 1987 (3-0) is much better than against non Victorian clubs (4-1)

 

[Billyc]

You lucked out with opponents three times. Essendon of 1999/2000/2001 got the opposite side of the coin. Its ok don't be too salty about all this.

Lol Port in 2007 are without doubt the weakest grand finalist I've seen. Cats just got lucky West Coast fell apart on drugs after 2006 or the 2007-2009 period may have been very different. I'm not complaining though - it opened the door for the baby Hawks to score an easy flag against the Cats at their peak in 08.

 

[Hawkk]

Lol Port in 2007 are without doubt the weakest grand finalist I've seen. Cats just got lucky West Coast fell apart on drugs after 2006 or the 2007-2009 period may have been very different. I'm not complaining though - it opened the door for the baby Hawks to score an easy flag against the Cats at their peak in 08.

Which ultimately turned out to be the tie breaker in the Cats v Lions v Hawks debate

Its pretty hard to argue the Cats greatness when the baby Hawks rolled the Cats at their zenith

 

[thebarry111]

Says the Geelong fan who watched his team host Freo at Simonds Stadium for a Qualifying Final.

West Coast finished 9th in 2014 and were handed the b-grade or c-grade 2015 fixture from the AFL
The only 2014 finalist they played twice was Fremantle. No away away games vs last year's top 3

So why should people make a fuss about them finishing 2nd with a 16-5-1 record ahead of Hawthorn with a 16-6 record ?
As it was, the Eagles had the enormous advantage of 2 home games at Domain Stadium and no travel just to qualify for the GF


2014 ladder/WCE 2015 fixture
1. Sydney - home
2. Hawthorn - home
3. Geelong - home
4. Fremantle - home, away
5. Port Adelaide - away
6. North Melb - away
7. Essendon - home
8. Richmond - away
10. Adelaide - home, away
11. Collingwood - away
12. Gold Coast - home, away
13. Carlton - home
14. W.Bulldogs - home, away
15. Brisbane - away
16. GWS Giants - home
17. Melbourne - away
18. St Kilda - home, away


2014 ladder/Haw 2015 fixture
1. Sydney - home, away
3. Geelong - home, away
4. Fremantle - home
5. Port Adelaide - home, away
6. North Melb - away
7. Essendon - home, away
8. Richmond - home
9. West Coast - away
10. Adelaide - away
11. Collingwood - away
12. Gold Coast - home
13. Carlton - home, away
14. W.Bulldogs - home
15. Brisbane - home
16. GWS Giants - away
17. Melbourne - home
18. St Kilda - away

Didn't we finish above freo that year? I get confused. Didn't you finish below west Coast. So you think the lower team should get the home final. Is that your logic?

 

[kidkenobi]

Incorrect. St Kilda's home ground is Etihad.

In 2009, prior to the finals Geelong played on the MCG five times.

St Kilda got its one and only look at the MCG in round 22 against wooden spooner Melbourne.

Try again sport.

So? It's neither teams home ground. It's Hawthorn's home ground. It's an advantage to Hawthorn. It's a simple concept

 

[Back One Out]

So? It's neither teams home ground. It's Hawthorn's home ground.
It's an advantage to Hawthorn. It's a simple concept

For simpletons, perhaps…

 

[kidkenobi]

For simpletons, perhaps...

Care to enlighten me?

 

[Back One Out]

Care to enlighten me?

Waaaay too many jealous buttthurt flogs are clutching at straws and using MCG home ground advantage, free agency and AFL expansion as excuses for not giving Hawthorn credit where credit is due.

The thing is… it doesn't matter what anyone says. It won't reverse the results.

 

[kidkenobi]

Waaaay too many jealous buttthurt flogs are clutching at straws and using MCG home ground advantage, free agency and AFL expansion as excuses for not giving Hawthorn credit where credit is due.

The thing is… it doesn't matter what anyone says. It won't reverse the results.

So like I said, it's a pretty simple concept.

 

[Back One Out]

Melbourne of the 1950's were one of the greatest teams of all time, if not THE greatest…

Premiers: 1955, 1956, 1957, 1959, 1960
Runner up: 1954, 1958

Of course, they didn't enjoy a home ground advantage with all finals played at the MCG in those days.
And those awesome Richmond teams coached by Tommy Hafey… they didn't have a home ground advantage either.
Basically, any Grand Final that Hawthorn wins at the MCG doesn't count because it's too much of advantage to play on our home ground.


Logically it also follows that any premiership won by Sydney, West Coast, Adelaide, Port and Brisbane must also have an asterisk placed alongside if they had the luxury of playing home finals in the lead up. Without those home ground advantages, they might not have even qualified for the Grand Final.

 

[Back One Out]

So like I said, it's a pretty simple concept.

Hawthorn didn't worry about home ground advantage when they travelled to Perth and knocked off the minor premiers in the Preliminary Final

Funny how winners don't need to bleat or make lame excuses.

Have Geelong ever won a final interstate?

edit: I looked it up. The answer is no. The Cats have never jagged a September victory outside of Victoria.
Probably too busy worrying themselves about the home advantage the opposition have over them.

 

[Back One Out]

LOL @ flogs claiming it's an "advantage" to Hawthorn that Sydney, West Coast or Freo can't stifle our skills on the bigger MCG ground.

Maybe they should play their home games on a full-sized oval, or develop a game plan that works everywhere.

Football Park = decent-sized ground
Gabba = decent sized ground

1997 - Crows win
1998 - Crows win
2001 - Lions win
2002 - Lions win
2003 - Lions win
2004 - Port win

 

[kidkenobi]

Hawthorn didn't worry about home ground advantage when they travelled to Perth and knocked off the minor premiers in the Preliminary Final

Funny how winners don't need to bleat or make lame excuses.

Have Geelong ever won a final interstate?

Hawthorn plays 3 Grand Finals on their home ground against 3 interstate teams. Advantage or no?

 

[Back One Out]

Hawthorn plays 3 Grand Finals on their home ground against 3 interstate teams. Advantage or no?

No advantage. The best team won. Simple

2013 - won quite easily, briefly threatened in the 3rd qtr, but the Hawks had the game well in hand
2014 - no contest, Hawks shat it in by 10 goals.
2015 - easy victory, Hawks a class above.

You'd have to be a real muppet to think the MCG home ground advantage was the reason why the toughest, most skilful, experienced, best-coached team has won the past 3 Grand Finals.

The Eagles have a home ground advantage at Domain Stadium with their weirdly-narrow ground assisting their defensive zoning. The MCG is not an advantage to Hawthorn. It's simply the removal of the advantage that defensive teams enjoy on their smaller grounds.

The Eagles got found out by a more committed, skilful side

 

[kidkenobi]

No advantage.

 

[Back One Out]

 

[Ugottabjokin]

Would Hawthorn have their three-peat if their grand finals weren't played at their home ground????


There already is a thread about the grand final being at a neutral venue, or who is better Brisbane, geelong, hawthorn etc, however what about this....

Hawthorns three grand final wins have come against interstate teams who have had to play on a pitch which has different dimensions to their own, a stadium where they had only played minimal times during the year, and not to mention the significant crowd advantage and influence the hawks have.

Lets look at 2013 grand final. Hawks win by 15 points. Played against a team that had barely played a game at the MCG all year, and traveled from Perth, where they played over 50% of their games on a pitch with much smaller dimensions.

2014 Grand final. Hawks win by 63 points. Annihilation, and you'd have to be stupid to say that the MCG is a 10 goal advantage for the hawks, but had the game been played in Sydney with a majority of supporters being Sydney supporters would it had been Sydney who crumbled under pressure early on, and then were forced to chase the game, or would it potentially been the Hawks who crumbled under the pressure of playing on a foreign ground, with no home crowd support??

2015 Grand Final. Hawks win by 46 points. No excuses for the Eagles here but an embarrassment really. Many fumbles, easy mistakes, made Hawthorn look like they couldn't do no wrong. However, just 3 weeks back at the Eagles home ground we saw the complete opposite occur?? Is it just a coincidence the Hawks had a bad game 3 three weeks ago, and three weeks later the Eagles just happen to have a bad game?? Or could it be similar reasons to 2014. Early on pressure of a grand final, playing on a ground which they are not used to, infront of an intimidating home crowd. Meanwhile the hawks had the advantage of playing on their home ground, infront of their home crowd, and were able to settle quicker, and hence get out to a marginal advantage and force their opponents to try and chase for the rest of the game??

Firsly before i get criticized like i said the game could have been played at Pattersons and the way the eagles played, and the way the hawks played their wouldnt have been much difference, but for all those saying Hawthorn is the greatest team of all, bar their 2013 season, they haven't been the best team throughout the home and away seasons of 2014, and 2015 yet were fortunate enough to play the grand final on their home ground, in front of their home crowd.

Had all three of these three finals been played in Perth, and Sydney would the hawks still be 3-0?

Yes.

New Question: Is Nic Nat the worst ruckman in the league? I mean 4 disposal in the most important game of the year is either the worlds biggest choke or the worst performance by a ruckman in a granny ever.
P.S. I am expecting at least 7 paragraphs of complete rambling in response i.e. as above.

 

[Back One Out]

I love the way for six months of the year, teams win and lose games of footy and nobody says jack-s**t about home ground advantage.
Then the Hawks win another Grand Final and it becomes the dominant topic for the next 7 days on Big Footy…

In Round 4, Port Adelaide blew Hawthorn off the park at Adelaide Oval with an 8 goal first quarter.
Nothing said about home ground advantage. Just the Port Adelaide awesomeness.

In Round 6, the Giants recorded one of the best wins in their short history with an epic victory over Hawthorn at the Sydney Showgrounds. Nothing about home ground advantage. Just how good the Giants were (and how good they're going to be) and also how Luke Hodge and Jordan Lewis had cost their team victory by getting themselves suspended after the previous match vs North.

4 weeks ago, when the Eagles flogged a sluggish Hawthorn team in the Qualifying Final, they were anointed as flag favourites. Nothing said about home ground. The Hawks were a spent force. Out in straight sets, they said. Too old, too slow. Finished. It was a "changing of the guard". The Grand Final was going to be a WA Derby.

Funny how the "home ground" only becomes a topic after Hawthorn win.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Would Hawthorn have their three-peat if their grand finals weren't played at their home ground????


There already is a thread about the grand final being at a neutral venue, or who is better Brisbane, geelong, hawthorn etc, however what about this....

Hawthorns three grand final wins have come against interstate teams who have had to play on a pitch which has different dimensions to their own, a stadium where they had only played minimal times during the year, and not to mention the significant crowd advantage and influence the hawks have.

Lets look at 2013 grand final. Hawks win by 15 points. Played against a team that had barely played a game at the MCG all year, and traveled from Perth, where they played over 50% of their games on a pitch with much smaller dimensions.

2014 Grand final. Hawks win by 63 points. Annihilation, and you'd have to be stupid to say that the MCG is a 10 goal advantage for the hawks, but had the game been played in Sydney with a majority of supporters being Sydney supporters would it had been Sydney who crumbled under pressure early on, and then were forced to chase the game, or would it potentially been the Hawks who crumbled under the pressure of playing on a foreign ground, with no home crowd support??

2015 Grand Final. Hawks win by 46 points. No excuses for the Eagles here but an embarrassment really. Many fumbles, easy mistakes, made Hawthorn look like they couldn't do no wrong. However, just 3 weeks back at the Eagles home ground we saw the complete opposite occur?? Is it just a coincidence the Hawks had a bad game 3 three weeks ago, and three weeks later the Eagles just happen to have a bad game?? Or could it be similar reasons to 2014. Early on pressure of a grand final, playing on a ground which they are not used to, infront of an intimidating home crowd. Meanwhile the hawks had the advantage of playing on their home ground, infront of their home crowd, and were able to settle quicker, and hence get out to a marginal advantage and force their opponents to try and chase for the rest of the game??

Firsly before i get criticized like i said the game could have been played at Pattersons and the way the eagles played, and the way the hawks played their wouldnt have been much difference, but for all those saying Hawthorn is the greatest team of all, bar their 2013 season, they haven't been the best team throughout the home and away seasons of 2014, and 2015 yet were fortunate enough to play the grand final on their home ground, in front of their home crowd.

Had all three of these three finals been played in Perth, and Sydney would the hawks still be 3-0?

Home ground advantage yes.
No travel factor yes.
Home crowd factor NO!

In WA all games are played with an intimidating crowd factor. 98-2 at best.

Crowds on GF day are as good as 50 - 50

Believe me. Beyond purists who are keen to see history made and/or enjoy great footy the majority of non hawk Vics wanted to see the Hawks beaten.
It's harder for non WA teams to win in WA than it is for non Vics to win in Vic.

Crows x 2
Eagles x 3
Swans x 2
Lions x 3

Here's 10 examples in last 20 odd years.

 

[Back One Out]

Yes.

New Question: Is Nic Nat the worst ruckman in the league? I mean 4 disposal in the most important game of the year is either the worlds biggest choke or the worst performance by a ruckman in a granny ever.
P.S. I am expecting at least 7 paragraphs of complete rambling in response i.e. as above.

The MCG turf is not as springy as the grass grown at Subiaco. This is why Nicnat was unable to leap over the packs and take any speckies.

Luke Shuey was also distracted when he ran towards goal at the Punt Road end and caught a glimpse of himself on the Northern Stand scoreboard.
This is why he didn't handball to Cripps and missed the dribble goal. It's also why he had a rush of blood and hit Taylor Duryea on the chest with a pass instead of hand balling left or right to either of his team-mates running alongside. Damn MCG scoreboard.

 

[Ugottabjokin]

The MCG turf is not as springy as the grass grown at Subiaco. This is why Nicnat was unable to leap over the packs and take any speckies.

Luke Shuey was also distracted when he ran towards goal at the Punt Road end and caught a glimpse of himself on the Northern Stand scoreboard.
This is why he didn't handball to Cripps and missed the dribble goal. It's also why he had a rush of blood and hit Taylor Duryea on the chest with a pass instead of hand balling left or right to either of his team-mates running alongside. Damn MCG scoreboard.

I heard it was the un-seasonally warm weather. Nic Nat was expecting to have the colder heavier denser air to contend with and with the warmer lighter air went quicker than expected and thus kept over-running the ball and leaving it behind.

The sun was also clearly responsible for many stuff ups because it only got in the Eagles players eyes.

The goal posts are higher at the G and put the Eagles players off when kicking for them.

The wind had no consideration and blew in a different direction than what the Fremantle Doctor does. Therefore when aiming for goal and allowing for the breeze they got it wrong.

Lastly I heard when they shook the magic 8 ball and asked "will we win the grand final" the response came back as "No" and thus they lost motivation to win.

 

[demondavey]

Hawthorn plays 3 Grand Finals on their home ground against 3 interstate teams. Advantage or no?

No

 

[demondavey]

I've got a solution, I think Hawthorn better return those 3 premiership cups because they were played at the MCG against interstate sides if those very same interstate sides accept draws for all their victories at their home stadiums over the past 3 years.

I mean I think that's fair, right? Then we might get a grand final between two teams that play their home games at Etihad? Because that seems like the only logical solution? Because we can't have teams playing at the MCG in a grand final who use that ground as their home ground during the H&A season, and we can't have interstate sides playing at the MCG because it's just too hard for them to win.

Or, maybe we just play all games at neutral venues? And then no game is played at the MCG until the Grand Final? So when Hawthorn is due to play Sydney in a H&A game next year, it gets played in Adelaide?

I think that's fair, I mean really, it only makes sense right?

 

[kranky al]

Yes.

New Question: Is Nic Nat the worst ruckman in the league? I mean 4 disposal in the most important game of the year is either the worlds biggest choke or the worst performance by a ruckman in a granny ever.
P.S. I am expecting at least 7 paragraphs of complete rambling in response i.e. as above.

There was about 18 blokes on that team on saturday that stank it up - wasnt just one - eagles s**t the bed.....

 

[Hawkk]

Yes.

New Question: Is Nic Nat the worst ruckman in the league? I mean 4 disposal in the most important game of the year is either the worlds biggest choke or the worst performance by a ruckman in a granny ever.
P.S. I am expecting at least 7 paragraphs of complete rambling in response i.e. as above.

No marks either

A s**t player pure and simple, West Coast should delist him if they have any wherewithal...