Holmes

Munga

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I reckon if he wasn't a rookie he would've got a game by now. He seems to go very very well each week, covers a lot ground, agile, aggressive. I'd like to see him promoted for the back half of the season to see how far he can go at the top level.

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I'm with you on this one Munga, but I'm not. :confused:

I think bringing Holmes up now would give AR the capacity to assess exactly where he is at in terms of his ability to compete at this level. Also it would give us some strong insight into the impact he would have on the team dynamics. I just don't think we need to rush though. It is almost a certainty that we will have another opportunity to bring a rookie up for a LTI, as I think we will mothball players towards the end of the year to ensure they get up for a full pre-season. I think the overwhelming priority has to be for us to develop our midfield and on that basis Sinclair is a lock IMO.
 

VDS66

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Oct 4, 2011
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Kicking is a concern. Hard to say how he would cope. AFL is a different level and he'd be up against a few monsters. As much as I'd love to see him get a game, not sure if he is ready to be honest.
 
I think Jason is a very driven individual, and his ability to learn and craft his game so that he regularly appears in the best for the Zebras is nothing short of inspiring. I also suspect that Jason does the bulk of his learning by 'doing' and 'getting a feel' for things and then relating that back to the coaches instructions at training time. It must be a case of something happens on the field that he has never experienced before and the epiphany occurs where he thinks 'Ok, that's why they want me to do that!' In that regard I really think a he needs to experience playing at the top level so he can gauge where he needs to focus and improve over the off season.

I just don't think he is ready (or needs) 10+ games at the AFL level (although I would be delighted to be proven wrong). I would love to see him play on Naitanui in Round 23 though! So lets bide our time, wait until round 17 or so, and see who needs an extended rest or some minor surgery, mothball them and bring him in then.
 

stfan

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Important thing is that he continues to improve....and so you would expect at by seasons end that he will be even better.

Main thing that he needs now is just lots of football games, and playing Sandy is adequate for that purpose.
 
Problem is there's just too much competition on the rookie list for him to get promoted. Schneiderman's been good this year, Sinclair really grabbed his chance, Ahmed will keep pushing. Unless we lost Longer or Hickey to a long-term injury and decided to promote like-for-like he's got almost no chance this year.
 
He's turning out to be a fascinating prospect. 60 hitouts in the game against the Boroughs is pretty incredible.

We also have to remember he is not a kid. He's already played sport at a rather elite level (College Basketball is pretty full on - they'd be getting massive crowds). He's over 25 years old. And he comes from an elite sporting family. Half the battle for a debutant is them getting over the roar and the significance of the crowd, etc. He's not going to have that problem, I'd suspect.

There are several levels to the questions about Holmes:
  1. Is he good enough to get elevated this year if there is a late LTI? Yes, especially if that LTI is one of the rucks. But Longer and/or Hickey would have to be a bit dark if he comes in as #1 ahead of them. Then again, he's earned it, and if he wasn't a rookie he'd probably have made a strong enough case to come in already.
  2. Is he good enough to be put on the senior list next year? This is the big question. Right now, it's not just that he's a rookie - he's an INTERNATIONAL rookie, and thus stands outside of the standard 44 players on an AFL list (rookies included). If we put him on the seniors list, then not only is that going to be four rucks on the main list, but also it'll put pressure on the 44-man list as a whole.
  3. Is he good enough to be our #1 or #2 ruck? This goes a long way to answering the second question, because if he IS considered good enough, then that may well mean that we put somebody like Hickey or Longer up for trade. We've had remarkable success two-years-running in trading out an extra ruck to get a juicy first-rounder or two. Holmes may be a vital piece of the puzzle, if Bains and Trout see us doing that again.
Honestly, I think we have to find some way to get him into the seniors for a good 4 or so games in the latter part of the year, and as #1 ruck, too. Really give him a chance to show his wares. If he's good enough in that spell, then we explore trading out Hickey. If we get offered a late first rounder for Hickey, then we choose to elevate Holmes.

Bottom line, Holmes potentially gives us the ability to get another first rounder! In that sense, he could well represent a MASSIVE upgrade, picks-wise.
 
Sep 14, 2008
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Billy is so massively underrated & unfairly bagged by some supporters. I made the mistake of reading a fee threads on SS this morning... calls for him to be traded so Pierce can get a go...FFS.

I really don't see the need to be worried about the ruck situation now...we're finally got depth which we will undoubtedly need down the track. The most physically demanding & injury prone position & supporters want to trade out our #1 Ruckman???

Utterly ludicrous
 
Billy is so massively underrated & unfairly bagged by some supporters. I made the mistake of reading a fee threads on SS this morning... calls for him to be traded so Pierce can get a go...FFS.

I really don't see the need to be worried about the ruck situation now...we're finally got depth which we will undoubtedly need down the track. The most physically demanding & injury prone position & supporters want to trade out our #1 Ruckman???

Utterly ludicrous

On SS Plugger 66 has some kind of Longer hate issues and wants him dumped for Hickey. I think Longer is getting better all the time. It was probably his best game. Even if he doesn't win the hit out he makes everyone a contest. His tap work is quite good but his around the ground work was good yesterday too. I think he had the 6th most FA points for us. We won't always have both available and right now with hickeys knees he is a better option for the bash and crash of full time ruck work.
 
Billy is so massively underrated & unfairly bagged by some supporters. I made the mistake of reading a fee threads on SS this morning... calls for him to be traded so Pierce can get a go...FFS.

I really don't see the need to be worried about the ruck situation now...we're finally got depth which we will undoubtedly need down the track. The most physically demanding & injury prone position & supporters want to trade out our #1 Ruckman???

Utterly ludicrous
Definitely didn't say that we SHOULD trade him out, at all. But, if (and right now, it's a pretty huge if) we have the luxury of an even better prospect on our rookie list, then that's worth considering.

Look, the other way this goes is that we say, "Hey, he's nearly 26, while Billy is only 22. By 2018, Billy will be in his prime at about 25, whereas Jason will be 29. As such, he's too old to be part of the team when we're making our next tilt. As such, let's trade HOLMES."

Then, getting him to play those last 5-6 games become even MORE important, because then we can shop him off as a ruckman in his age-prime, with talent, for somebody who needs another ruck NOW, a team looking to make that last leap to premiership contention (maybe a Richmond to compliment Maric? I'd say the Bombers because Bellchambers is getting on, but they're such flogs to bargain with). Again, if we can turn an international rookie we got for free into a first or second rounder, then that's an amazing return. But wed have to get him to show his wares for a month or so before the end of the year.
 

Periphery

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Definitely didn't say that we SHOULD trade him out, at all. But, if (and right now, it's a pretty huge if) we have the luxury of an even better prospect on our rookie list, then that's worth considering.

Look, the other way this goes is that we say, "Hey, he's nearly 26, while Billy is only 22. By 2018, Billy will be in his prime at about 25, whereas Jason will be 29. As such, he's too old to be part of the team when we're making our next tilt. As such, let's trade HOLMES."

Then, getting him to play those last 5-6 games become even MORE important, because then we can shop him off as a ruckman in his age-prime, with talent, for somebody who needs another ruck NOW, a team looking to make that last leap to premiership contention (maybe a Richmond to compliment Maric? I'd say the Bombers because Bellchambers is getting on, but they're such flogs to bargain with). Again, if we can turn an international rookie we got for free into a first or second rounder, then that's an amazing return. But wed have to get him to show his wares for a month or so before the end of the year.

Giving Holmes a month or two isn't going to get him to the level where he can get us a 1st or 2nd rounder. If he puts in consistent solid efforts for 30-40 games then we'd possibly get something along those lines but that's a few years away from happening.
 
Sep 19, 2011
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Giving Holmes a month or two isn't going to get him to the level where he can get us a 1st or 2nd rounder. If he puts in consistent solid efforts for 30-40 games then we'd possibly get something along those lines but that's a few years away from happening.
Geelong gave us pick 21 for Rys and he only played 3 good games in his whole career. And none of them were in the ruck and they picked him up to play ruck : ) lol
never underestimate the hype of a good tall dude...
Remember whats his face from Port a few years ago... Clubs were throwing stupid stupid deals fwd to get him.. hasnt done much in the 4 years later : )
 

Riccardo11

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He played pretty well against the Borough, but does have a problem below his knees, as so many bigger guys do. Kicking is still a worry as well.

I'd give him the rest of this year at least before we start talking about making the grade in the AFL, there are many great VFL players that get lost with the step up, can't ruin the guys confidence by blooding him before he's ready, and he isn't ready.

Madonna was comfortably Sandys best from my vantage point. Will play for Saints again before 2015 is done.
 

God Save Max King

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The development of Holmes and Longer this year really shows what a terrific job Adam Skrobalak, part-time ruck coach, has done. Both seems to have made huge strides this year, great pick up is Skroba, I believe he was also midfield coach at the Western Jets last year and developed the likes of Corey Ellis, Jayden Laverde, Liam Duggan and Connor Menadue.
 
The development of Holmes and Longer this year really shows what a terrific job Adam Skrobalak, part-time ruck coach, has done. Both seems to have made huge strides this year, great pick up is Skroba, I believe he was also midfield coach at the Western Jets last year and developed the likes of Corey Ellis, Jayden Laverde, Liam Duggan and Connor Menadue.
never heard of him before but i love him now.

always thought an experienced ruck was the best way for young rucks to learn but I'm guessing a mixture of natural progression and our coaching tree is rapidly improving our ruck stocks.
 

stfan

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The development of Holmes and Longer this year really shows what a terrific job Adam Skrobalak, part-time ruck coach, has done. Both seems to have made huge strides this year, great pick up is Skroba, I believe he was also midfield coach at the Western Jets last year and developed the likes of Corey Ellis, Jayden Laverde, Liam Duggan and Connor Menadue.

The Saints do seemed to have plucked him out of almsot nowhere.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/adam-skrobalak/65/117/652

He must have been really impressing people at the Jets. Interstingly while he did have football coaching experience, that being ruck coach anywhere is not mentioned at all.

So is quite a departure from most clubs where they use an ex-ruckamn and normally ex-AFL ruckman.
 

Munga

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I've said this in another thread. Holmes doesn't have to be the best in the AFL, just the best at the Saints. Given the opportunity, I'm pretty sure he'll shine.
 
Seems to be coming along very nicely, according to Sandy match reports. Can't say I've been able to watch him play at all but like any "foreigners" to the sport, it will be his positional play around the ground that he'll need to work on. Some skills also of course, but getting to know the structures and where he should be (and where he shouldn't) would be the biggest challenge for him I would think.

Athletically he seems superb, and 60 taps sure says he can jump. I hope he makes it, and we get to see him. Took Mike Pyke quite some time to get the knack of things, but the Swans persevered.

Then again, everyone said Folau would be great at Aussie Rules after he took a "mark" in a State of Origin game.
 
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