Mega Thread Hot Topic - Drugs and AFL

[Grave Danger]

NO $ANFL IN THE AFL!

Those campaigners will try and pull a swifty on the Adelaide Oval deal while Gilligan and co are distracted by all this Essendon/ASADA rubbish.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

ASADA have warned clubs and players that if they play in the NAB Cup then backdating of a penalty starts then not last year.



ASADA issues warning to Essendon, players with infraction notices
February 11, 2015 - 4:02PM
Jon Pierik
The Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority has warned Essendon, Port Adelaide and the Western Bulldogs that any player issued with an infraction notice will lose any chance of a suspension "credit" should they opt to play in the NAB Challenge.

The Western Bulldogs had been weighing up whether to seek a lifting of the provisional suspension imposed on forward Stewart Crameri, one of the 34 current and former Essendon players to have been issued with infraction notices, alleging the use of the banned drug thymosin beta 4.

The Bombers and the Power, the latter with Patrick Ryder and Angus Monfries on their list, had already confirmed they would not seek to have the provisional suspensions lifted, for fear this could have implications on any backdated penalty should the players be found guilty. Monfries and Ryder have withdrawn from at least the opening two matches.......

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-with-infraction-notices-20150211-13byoj.html

 

[Andre]

At least that all but confirms there will be backdating. Now just hoping no real games are missed if suspensions occur.

 

[blaargh]

Will watson and fletcher be backdated to the international rules game?

Expensive holiday...

 

[OneGreatClub]

I'm asumming it's Ok for Ryder and Monfries to play in the club game on 27th feb?

 

[Dalphonso]

But the fans still want to assume its clean. As I wrote on the BDC board in a Lance Armstrong thread

I bought Sunday Times journo David Walsh's book - Seven deadly sins, my pursuit of Lance Armstrong. On the dedication page there is a dedication to his family and then two quotes.

The first is from Sandro Donati who is an Italian anti doping campaigner and sports official who ended up on the Italian Olympic Committee. Donati regularly clashed with the dodgy Professor Francesco Conconi who was pro blood transfusions. Conconi told Donati in 1981, when Donati was national middle distance coach for the Italian Athletic Federation how to improve on the Finnish blood doping methods. Donati rejeted the offer and was instrumental in getting the Italian parliament to pass legislated after the 1984 Olympics to outlaw blood doping. He has done many other good things in his anti doping campaign. His quote is

" I watch the Olympic Games but I don't bother to remember the names of the athletes any more. It's like theatre - but I prefer theatre because the relationship between actor and spectator is clear. In sport's theatre, both are still pretending it's real."

the other quote is from Brad Pitt in Se7en

"You're no messiah. You're a movie of the week. You're a ****ing T-shirt at best."

The last time I thought the Olympics was incredible was when Ben Johnson beat Carl Lewis for gold and got the World record.It was awe inspiring and incredible I thought at the time.A couple of days later it all became a farce and I have had little respect for the cheaters games since

 

[scottjr]

I'm not sure we would want Paddy lining up in the 1st couple of preseason games anyway if we use last year as a guide. Give the rookies a run and experiment a little.

 

[raptalia]

The last time I thought the Olympics was incredible was when Ben Johnson beat Carl Lewis for gold and got the World record.It was awe inspiring and incredible I thought at the time.A couple of days later it all became a farce and I have had little respect for the cheaters games since

I take your point Dal and we can add the fact that Raelene Boyle was beaten by East German Renate Stetcher, a since confirmed drug cheat, in both the 100 and 200m finals at the Munich Olympics. If Coates really wants to square the ledger he should campaign to strip Stetcher of the Gold and get Boyle the Gold she deserves.

At the Munich Olympics East German women did not win a gold in swimming but at the Montreal Olympics four years later they won all but one of the individual events. With the collapse of the East Germany, GDR State archives show that East German athletes were involved in a State sponsored steroid programme. Female East German swimmers were given Oral-Turinabol which is a testosterone derivative. This has subsequently affected their fertility and lead to miscarriage and birth defects. The swimmers were told that the supplement was vitamin.

The link below is a research paper and not from any authority on the subject but it is interesting,

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f00/web2/naimzadeh2.html

In relation to Ben Johnson that old WADA campaigner Dick Pound, who is currently leading the WADA investigation into doping allegations against Russian athletes, made this comment,

"The Ben Johnson thing was a one off, it wasn't a Canadian system of doping, whereas in the former East Germany and a number of the Warsaw Pact countries it was a little more organized and systematic."

Pound, who is Canadian, is under stating the scope of the East German operation it was more than just 'a little more organised' than the Johnson thing.

The Olympics is where this all started particularly as the East German programme was State sponsored and propaganda based. Sport was used by Eastern Block countries as an ideological tool hence the United Nations involvement. Australia has to be seen to be doing the 'right thing' but taken in the context that certain foreign Governments have encouraged steroid use among their athletes and the after effects of those programmes the AFL and Essendon are particularly small fry.

 

[Killer Power]

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f00/web2/naimzadeh2.html

In relation to Ben Johnson that old WADA campaigner Dick Pound, who is currently leading the WADA investigation into doping allegations against Russian athletes, made this comment,

Bahaha

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Essendon are facing the possibility of more sanctions - loss of premiership points and draft picks plus collecting more fines - over their possible refusal to play in the NAB challenge.

Caro's telling Gillon to show them who's the boss.

 

[Power Raid]

I'm asumming it's Ok for Ryder and Monfries to play in the club game on 27th feb?

I dare say no risks will be taken

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The last time I thought the Olympics was incredible was when Ben Johnson beat Carl Lewis for gold and got the World record.It was awe inspiring and incredible I thought at the time.A couple of days later it all became a farce and I have had little respect for the cheaters games since

But did you buy the Armstrong bullshit for over a decade like 99% of people did?? I did until 2006 when the evidence in 3 books was overwhelming. If he wasnt so arrogant and didnt come back in 2009 and 2010 he would have got away with it for life.

 

[chiwigi]

But did you buy the Armstrong bullshit for over a decade like 99% of people did?? I did until 2006 when the evidence in 3 books was overwhelming. If he wasnt so arrogant and didnt come back in 2009 and 2010 he would have got away with it for life.

Johnson won fair and square (because the others were doping too) he was a scapegoat. Lewis has since been done as has Christie etc.

sorry meant to quote the other one REH

 

[scottjr]

Johnson won fair and square (because the others were doping too) he was a scapegoat. Lewis has since been done as has Christie etc.

sorry meant to quote the other one REH

No not everyone cheats. I'll accept most do and they are at the top end. Let's start with the heats and qualifying. There are a percentage that don't for any number of reasons that may seem bizarre and you would question why they are out there if they are not going to take the race seriously but if there is one in the race or attempting to qualify that doesn't cheat then that makes Johnson a cheat.

 

[chiwigi]

No not everyone cheats. I'll accept most do and they are at the top end. Let's start with the heats and qualifying. There are a percentage that don't for any number of reasons that may seem bizarre and you would question why they are out there if they are not going to take the race seriously but if there is one in the race or attempting to qualify that doesn't cheat then that makes Johnson a cheat.

I get your point but they wouldn't have been anywhere near a non cheating Johnson. Fair and square does seem a it generous.

 

[scottjr]

I get your point but they wouldn't have been anywhere near a non cheating Johnson. Fair and square does seem a it generous.

I'm not sure and I can only draw a parallel with racehorses that I have seen go from mediocre to A-graders purely on what they were given that wasn't being picked up though drug tests. I'll also put Jobe up as the case for "better living though chemistry" I'll argue they go on the gear because they need to. Without it they are mediocre.

 

[Doctor Feel]

Dick Pound Campaigner.

 

[raptalia]

Johnson won fair and square (because the others were doping too) he was a scapegoat. Lewis has since been done as has Christie etc.

sorry meant to quote the other one REH

You could use that logic with Lance Armstrong. We will probably never know how many of the top echelon in professional cycling were using PEDs while Armstrong was winning. The fact remains that Lance did it and he got caught.

As for Ben Johnson, he did not win it 'fair and square'. Call me naïve but I refuse to believe that every other competitor in the 1988 final was using PEDs despite popular opinion. I cannot find any reference to the entire field in Seoul testing positive at some stage of their career but it could have happened.

We also forget that Johnson tested positive a second time in 1993 after he had served his Seoul induced disqualification. As if that was not enough Johnson tested positive a third time in 1999. I think we can draw an obvious conclusion from all this.

Sympathy for Ben Johnson- no way.

 

[raptalia]

Dick Pound Campaigner.

In this case I think Dick Pound is a genuine campaigner. He has been the voice against drugs in sport for a long, long time.

 

[raptalia]

Essendon are facing the possibility of more sanctions - loss of premiership points and draft picks plus collecting more fines - over their possible refusal to play in the NAB challenge.

Caro's telling Gillon to show them who's the boss.

The AFL is also in a difficult position as if they demand that Essendon play and demand that they field a competitive side it will mean that some players under investigation will have to play. If they say Essendon must play regardless and provide an avenue for 'top up' players it will make a mockery of the competition, albeit a pre season comp. I am not sure how many of the 34 players under investigation are still at Essendon as we are not supposed to know but if it is around 20 then Essendon will not be able to field a side without dispensation. I did read that the AFL will allow Essendon to access additional players but that smacks of tokenism. Much better to allow the Essendon players to sit this one out. It should be noted that the no play stance is understandably coming from the players and Essendon are reacting to it.

If Caroline Wilson is so concerned maybe she should have been extolling the AFL, ASADA and Essendon to get on with the process earlier so that a resolution did not drag into the 2015 season. If the ASDA case is so strong and they had all the evidence back when they first issued show cause notices the process could have started then and resumed after the Essendon Court case. No one, including the AFL, seemed to be in any hurry to get the ball rolling and we are now on the cusp of the 2015 season with no result yet. Essendon, ASADA and James Hird appeared more content on fighting losing Court battles than starting proceedings.

As for Caro's claim that AFLPA Chief Executive Paul Marsh will be telling the players how heavily the AFL will come down on Essendon if 'they' carry out their threat that will have little bearing on anything. Marsh's responsibility rests with the best interests of the players and if playing in the NAB Cup risks a longer time out then his advice must obviously be not to play.

 

[Jason K]

No one, including the AFL, seemed to be in any hurry to get the ball rolling and we are now on the cusp of the 2015 season with no result

I don't really agree with most of your views on this topic but I do with this. Surely they are taking the McPiss. They have had more days off than the ships cat.

 

[Stryke]

Y

As for Ben Johnson, he did not win it 'fair and square'. Call me naïve but I refuse to believe that every other competitor in the 1988 final was using PEDs despite popular opinion. I cannot find any reference to the entire field in Seoul testing positive at some stage of their career but it could have happened.

We also forget that Johnson tested positive a second time in 1993 after he had served his Seoul induced disqualification. As if that was not enough Johnson tested positive a third time in 1999. I think we can draw an obvious conclusion from all this.

Sympathy for Ben Johnson- no way.

Have a watch of this. ESPN doc about the mens 100m Final from Seoul.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

You could use that logic with Lance Armstrong. We will probably never know how many of the top echelon in professional cycling were using PEDs while Armstrong was winning. The fact remains that Lance did it and he got caught.

As for Ben Johnson, he did not win it 'fair and square'. Call me naïve but I refuse to believe that every other competitor in the 1988 final was using PEDs despite popular opinion. I cannot find any reference to the entire field in Seoul testing positive at some stage of their career but it could have happened.

We also forget that Johnson tested positive a second time in 1993 after he had served his Seoul induced disqualification. As if that was not enough Johnson tested positive a third time in 1999. I think we can draw an obvious conclusion from all this.

Sympathy for Ben Johnson- no way.

6 of the 8 have been done for drugs at some point in their career ie had positives. This great doco came out a month before the London Olympics. Da Silva from Brazil time's of 10.21 suggest he wasnt on drugs but plenty of athletes who have run 10.0-10.7 have admitted taking drugs. Calvin Smith though regularly broke 10 seconds, which is suspicious. Did you believe Armstrong and team mates were innocent before October 2012?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Have a watch of this. ESPN doc about the mens 100m Final from Seoul.

Basically same doco as the one I linked. ESPN, BBC, SBS and a couple of others co-produced it. ESPN made it part of their 30 for 30 series and have about 15 extra minutes with a yank narrator and its called 9.79*. The rest of the world saw the 1 hour version called The Race That Shocked The World.

 

[Forzaport]

So the AFL and Essendon have made a compromise - the 26 players on Essendon's list that were there in 2012 will be able to sit out the NAB challenge to protect the identities of the 18 provisionally suspended Essendon players. That's great for those 18, well 16 as we know Watson and Fletcher are definitely 2 of those 18. Shame about the identities of Ryder, Monfries and Crameri though.