Matera92
Brownlow Medallist
We just need to football better than the opposition.
Strategy How can we improve in 2015?
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Missing Swan and had Buckley coaching...
Ian Dargie
Premiership Player
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What a difference those blown games could have made.
Those losses against Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon. Setting aside the losses against Port at Subiaco and both derbies, where we were never properly in control.
Against Carlton, we were 24 points up with 12 minutes gone in the last quarter. And we lost.
Against Collingwood, we were 18 points up during the third quarter. And we lost.
Against Essendon, we were 34 points ahead during the third quarter. And we lost.
If we had won those games, we'd have finished with 14 wins and a very healthy percentage. Probably gets us into sixth. We'd all be feeling pretty differently about the list if we'd just manage to win a home final, assuring us of a top-six finish.
Those results were all inexcusable, the shitness of them highlighted by the fact that Carlton and Collingwood ended up below us on the ladder. So it's not like we got overrun by better teams. We folded against battlers. The Collingwood result was probably the least bad - 18 points is not a match-winning lead. But the other two, frankly, I struggle to remember worse results in terms of snatching defeat from a winning position. And look at the impact they had on our season.
Those losses against Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon. Setting aside the losses against Port at Subiaco and both derbies, where we were never properly in control.
Against Carlton, we were 24 points up with 12 minutes gone in the last quarter. And we lost.
Against Collingwood, we were 18 points up during the third quarter. And we lost.
Against Essendon, we were 34 points ahead during the third quarter. And we lost.
If we had won those games, we'd have finished with 14 wins and a very healthy percentage. Probably gets us into sixth. We'd all be feeling pretty differently about the list if we'd just manage to win a home final, assuring us of a top-six finish.
Those results were all inexcusable, the shitness of them highlighted by the fact that Carlton and Collingwood ended up below us on the ladder. So it's not like we got overrun by better teams. We folded against battlers. The Collingwood result was probably the least bad - 18 points is not a match-winning lead. But the other two, frankly, I struggle to remember worse results in terms of snatching defeat from a winning position. And look at the impact they had on our season.
Port last year? Brisbane a couple back?
Ian Dargie
Premiership Player
- Jun 14, 2011
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At least Port were a decent side. Yes, that Brisbane loss was also dire. I remember it now.
Against Carlton, we led by four goals halfway through the last quarter and got turned over. By a team that finished 13th.
eagles 2014
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Spot on. We win these and we also very much look like the 6 - 7 best team in the comp as well having beaten everyone below us. We need to sort out the midfield but I am not entirely convinced it is entirely about bringing in new personnel but rather working on some structures (although I am not suggesting we shouldn't be aiming to bring in new blood). I think getting Scooter, Yeo and Rosa on the park adds some much needed grunt.
I have also wondered if the likes of Shuey and Gaff have been used to looking to the old guard (Kerr, Embley etc) to carry the team when the chips were down. With them gone, they realised about halfway during the year that they were the "go-to" guys in the team and had to stand up. It seemed that the addition of McGovern was a bit of a catalyst for this as he came straight into the team and took control of several games.
One other comment, and I don't know much about what happens behind the scenes on this point, but WC have to look at their conditioning program. We seem to be undersized and constantly injured. The injuries obviously are often down to bad luck, but we seem to have an issue and you would think a thorough review should be on the cards on this aspect of our preparation. I would hope Simpson would be able to bring some fresh perspective on this.
A very intelligent and thoughtful post.
Agreed. It's a worry we have so many to compare in recent times.
West123
Club Legend
Not to mention that inaccuracy hurt us too.
Lost to Port 7.14 to 10.10.
Calton loss was 12.17 to 14.8
Freo losses were 7.12 to 11.7 & 11.5 to 13.10
Pies loss was 15.11 to 17.7
Would really like to see some heat maps. Are we simply not putting it in places suited to kicking goals? Or are we just bad in front of goal?
West123
Club Legend
We could jump to a top 4-6 team without much surprise. Not saying we will but we could.
Freo had more scoring shots than us in that second derby. We should have won the first, but they took their foot off I the second which allowed us some easy last quarter goals.
Definitely should have beaten Carlton and Collingwood. I didn't see the Port game so can't comment.
kane249
Wibble
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We lead Freo in the last quarter of that second derby, we had our chances.
True. But it wasn't necessarily inaccuracy
If we made the finals this year, it was always going to be a bonus, new coach, new game plan, managing the retirements of 2 stalwarts of the club. (one of which played on for a year too long IMO. ) unfortunately our results meant we weren't good enough this year, but not the end of the world. I think we have shown enough in the last 10 weeks of the year to have some optimism for next year.
What I think we need to do for 2015.
- keep darling forward. I'm not saying that he can't make it as a mid, but his football nous is best used as a roaming Hf rather than a mid. We have this great need for a big bodied mid, and I think it is at the detriment of him for now. Having said that, I would not be surprised if he was playing with pain for much of the year.
-NN to contest 90% of the centre bounces, then push forward, with Lycett to play more around the ground. As much as I like the idea of NN getting more ball, we are ridiculously better with him in the middle.
- Keep Shuey fit. (#whateverittakes) I really get the feeling he is being challenged by Simpson to become the next A grader. Next year could really be his year.
-Push McInnes over the preseason to play as a KPP, and play McGovern forward as a 2nd tall behind Kennedy. I love his disposal out of the backline, but if brown is fit we do risk going in too tall down back, and McGovern has shown to be the better forward of the two.
- keep going back to basics. If we draft a youngster with speed, it may take a year or two before they are ready. (Brad hill has taken a year or two before performing at a consistent level) If we can improve our disposal efficiency it can belie our lack of speed. Hitting targets anyway is probably important, but what do I know?
- learn how to play in the wet. Sure we may be blessed with ridiculously good weather over here, but it apparently rains elsewhere, and we probably should be prepared for that.
-using those skills we improve over the preseason, learn how to slow other teams from getting runs on against us. And practice again and again.
Our list has a ridiculously good spine, and I think with a game plan and an addition of an A grade mid (from development within or brought in through trade or draft) should see us improve drastically next year. Not as in top 2, but to a stage where we don't need to cringe when we get 20-0 down or 30 points up.
What I think we need to do for 2015.
- keep darling forward. I'm not saying that he can't make it as a mid, but his football nous is best used as a roaming Hf rather than a mid. We have this great need for a big bodied mid, and I think it is at the detriment of him for now. Having said that, I would not be surprised if he was playing with pain for much of the year.
-NN to contest 90% of the centre bounces, then push forward, with Lycett to play more around the ground. As much as I like the idea of NN getting more ball, we are ridiculously better with him in the middle.
- Keep Shuey fit. (#whateverittakes) I really get the feeling he is being challenged by Simpson to become the next A grader. Next year could really be his year.
-Push McInnes over the preseason to play as a KPP, and play McGovern forward as a 2nd tall behind Kennedy. I love his disposal out of the backline, but if brown is fit we do risk going in too tall down back, and McGovern has shown to be the better forward of the two.
- keep going back to basics. If we draft a youngster with speed, it may take a year or two before they are ready. (Brad hill has taken a year or two before performing at a consistent level) If we can improve our disposal efficiency it can belie our lack of speed. Hitting targets anyway is probably important, but what do I know?
- learn how to play in the wet. Sure we may be blessed with ridiculously good weather over here, but it apparently rains elsewhere, and we probably should be prepared for that.
-using those skills we improve over the preseason, learn how to slow other teams from getting runs on against us. And practice again and again.
Our list has a ridiculously good spine, and I think with a game plan and an addition of an A grade mid (from development within or brought in through trade or draft) should see us improve drastically next year. Not as in top 2, but to a stage where we don't need to cringe when we get 20-0 down or 30 points up.
Dark Sharks
Premium Kent
Apparently we never actually beat a top 8 team.
Funny, i never heard this at all throughout the year....
Funny, i never heard this at all throughout the year....
Agree, which is why i was a bit surprised by the contract extension to Simmo. This was a consistent issue and is as much in game coaching as it is on players.
I think the contract extension is being overplayed a bit. Simpson's original contract was two years, with an option for a third year. The club and Simpson have obviously agreed to take up the third year. I don't think giving a new coach three years is unreasonable.
I'm not sure why they chose to structure the original contract this way, presumably to give the club an exit, if Simpson proved totally incompetent, which I don't think he has.
In terms of how we can improve (aside from the midfield), I think we can structure our forwardline better, specifically the talls. Darling should not be used as a stationary marking target. He should be used as a HFF and occasionally, alone inside 50 as a FF. Kennedy should be played at CHF, which I believe is his most natural position and the resting ruck (NN/Lycett) played at FF, most of the time. In order for this to be possible, we need NN to improve his forward play to the level at which Lycett is playing.
So long story short, we need NN to improve as a forward and this will improve our forward set ups overall.
I'm not sure why they chose to structure the original contract this way, presumably to give the club an exit, if Simpson proved totally incompetent, which I don't think he has.
In terms of how we can improve (aside from the midfield), I think we can structure our forwardline better, specifically the talls. Darling should not be used as a stationary marking target. He should be used as a HFF and occasionally, alone inside 50 as a FF. Kennedy should be played at CHF, which I believe is his most natural position and the resting ruck (NN/Lycett) played at FF, most of the time. In order for this to be possible, we need NN to improve his forward play to the level at which Lycett is playing.
So long story short, we need NN to improve as a forward and this will improve our forward set ups overall.
- Sep 8, 2011
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From the meeting about the wings on friday, Gary Stocks said that the club had been super impressed with Simpson.
I remember a few years ago Worsfold said that our teams improvement comes from the collective improvement of individual players.
Cripps, Darling, Lycett, McGovern, Sheed, Yeo all have "genuine" improvement - of these guys to "fix" our major problems Cripps, Sheed and Yeo are the most important by far....
Bennell, Brown, Ellis, Gaff, Hurn, Kennedy, LeCras, MacKenzie, Masten, Naita, Priddis, Rosa, Schofield, Selwood, Shuey and Wellingham you just hope have injury free consistent seasons.
Cripps, Darling, Lycett, McGovern, Sheed, Yeo all have "genuine" improvement - of these guys to "fix" our major problems Cripps, Sheed and Yeo are the most important by far....
Bennell, Brown, Ellis, Gaff, Hurn, Kennedy, LeCras, MacKenzie, Masten, Naita, Priddis, Rosa, Schofield, Selwood, Shuey and Wellingham you just hope have injury free consistent seasons.
Hello all,
We cannot improve without a change in senior management, and I mean Nisbett.
Most forget that the reason for the AFL was the oncoming demise of the VFL and that we are simply there to prolong the existence of bad Vic clubs. What is more this has extended to the advent of awful rugby state competition, these by means of extra funding and draft picks but resulting in half empty stadia.
This is an unbalanced competition based on communist beliefs, those that don't win need a payout, extra draft picks etc,. They can wallow in mediocrity and the rest can pay.
The AFL changes umpiring dictates ad hoc, this season the biffos were rewarded, how would Dean Kemp have had any chance this season?
Compare our travel to any other club and in reality it's a fool who joins us, four years on average of retiring early.
13 clubs over 24 rounds, each playing each other twice. Private jets for WCE and Freo. Rules that don't change round by round.
I could go on about penalties for resting players before finals but that's not such a major issue.
The problem is that Nisbett agrees with it and wants more $$$ sent to pathetic VFL clubs from us.
WTF
We simply stand no chance until the AFL/VFL decide it's OUR TURN
We cannot improve without a change in senior management, and I mean Nisbett.
Most forget that the reason for the AFL was the oncoming demise of the VFL and that we are simply there to prolong the existence of bad Vic clubs. What is more this has extended to the advent of awful rugby state competition, these by means of extra funding and draft picks but resulting in half empty stadia.
This is an unbalanced competition based on communist beliefs, those that don't win need a payout, extra draft picks etc,. They can wallow in mediocrity and the rest can pay.
The AFL changes umpiring dictates ad hoc, this season the biffos were rewarded, how would Dean Kemp have had any chance this season?
Compare our travel to any other club and in reality it's a fool who joins us, four years on average of retiring early.
13 clubs over 24 rounds, each playing each other twice. Private jets for WCE and Freo. Rules that don't change round by round.
I could go on about penalties for resting players before finals but that's not such a major issue.
The problem is that Nisbett agrees with it and wants more $$$ sent to pathetic VFL clubs from us.
WTF
We simply stand no chance until the AFL/VFL decide it's OUR TURN
- Oct 1, 2012
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Heavy first post.
WAFC mucked up not getting permanent representation on the AFL commission. The horse has already bolted though. You would think the draft and salary cap would be enough for an equal competition. Unfortunately the AFL are moving towards less transparency for the draw, priority picks, compensation picks, COLA and Sydney Swan academies. Basically its just a money-making machine to them. Fans are leaving in droves though so maybe there is a small chance the AFL wake up from their malaise.
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As others have said there are a few points that I think the team should be aiming for in 2015:
- the ability to run out game and be absolutely ruthless when going to win the ball
- play for the jumper and the guy next to you
- work on the finer points of the Simpson game plan
- any passengers in the team, it is WAFL bound for you
Moreover, we must not accept mediocrity
- the ability to run out game and be absolutely ruthless when going to win the ball
- play for the jumper and the guy next to you
- work on the finer points of the Simpson game plan
- any passengers in the team, it is WAFL bound for you
Moreover, we must not accept mediocrity
eagles 2014
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Cheers BOND 007. Are you able to shed any light on the last point regarding WC conditioning program? Is is likely to be overhauled this year and what is Simpson likely to want implemented? Not sure whether you are in a position to say too much, but I would be certainly interested to hear whatever you can say.
EagleCanival
Club Legend
It's quite humourous just how strongly some people on this board overrate Yeo
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