How does Capitalism help stupid people in a globalised world?

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Power Raid said:
yep, an interesting debate and an important topic

The solution is difficult as the problem lays in other jurisdiction, many of which are over populated and the disparity of wealth is great.

solutions:
- introduce property laws to reduce sovereign risk and promote investment
- proper IR laws to ensure the new investment doesn't lead to more sweat shops
- proper education systems to deliver capable workers
- better taxation systems to deliver proper government services and frameworks
- reduce corruption

The reality is, Australia will go backward in many ways for a generation or two whilst much of the world gets its "s**t" in order. We shouldn't be upset by this, as although it may be a small negative for Oz, it will be a big positive for the globe.
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There's just no way two generations who already pay more "living" in Australia are going to accept their entire lives are going to be worse than their parents, and get steadily worse the whole time.

There will come a tipping point. The responsibility right now is on the rich (they are, after all, the ones that have most of the wealth, and increasingly so).

The rich need to champion policy that redistributes wealth into valuable social and public works projects imo.

They're the only people the government will listen to, and the only ones with the power to make the change (well, we do have the power, but it involves a guillotine and nobody wants to go down that route if it can be avoided) imo.
 
Poor people be poor forever*, that includes their children and their childrens children. If you aren't working now to ensure that you're on the right side of the economic divide you're in trouble. Trouble is being on the right side is no guarantee as one economic disaster for you and you're at risk of slipping and never coming back.

*yes one or two will break out into the money side, but not a statistically significant number
 
The Coup said:
We have to assume not everyone can go to uni, right? So what line of work are we going to have for the underperformers, the dumb, the ineffectual or even just the plain old lazy?

So what's the solution?
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Agree with most of the post except this. We in Australia at least, just assumed everyone can and should go to uni (rather than be the advanced, elite research and educated set up it should be) as some sort of weird job ready program and can't work out why there are a glut of indebted un/under employed graduates.

Training and educating people properly where there is/will likely be demand (a core aspect of captalism=i.e. meeting demand) may be the first step. At this end the government has to take the lead in allocating resources where the nation at large can compete and allowing a foothold. Best nations I can think of are Germany.

Just over inflating property and talking up service industries like some weird panacea will not cut it.
 

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Run n Spread said:
Agree with most of the post except this. We in Australia at least, just assumed everyone can and should go to uni (rather than be the advanced, elite research and educated set up it should be) as some sort of weird job ready program and can't work out why there are a glut of indebted un/under employed graduates.

Training and educating people properly where there is/will likely be demand (a core aspect of captalism=i.e. meeting demand) may be the first step. At this end the government has to take the lead in allocating resources where the nation at large can compete and allowing a foothold. Best nations I can think of are Germany.

Just over inflating property and talking up service industries like some weird panacea will not cut it.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? There are now 12,000 law graduates every year in Australia, into a market where there are only 60,000 legal jobs. We can always use MORE lawyers!

In all seriousness though, my fiance just graduated as a lawyer and difficulties she had in finding a position were amazing (so much harder than 10 years ago when i graduated in the same field). She was fortunate in ending up in a good spot but plenty of grads with honours who can't find a spot. Its disgusting what uni's are doing in terms of pumping out numbersm, all for the fee $'s, into a market that just cannot absorb them
 
Power Raid said:
yep, an interesting debate and an important topic

The reality is, Australia will go backward in many ways for a generation or two whilst much of the world gets its "s**t" in order. We shouldn't be upset by this, as although it may be a small negative for Oz, it will be a big positive for the globe.
Click to expand...

Given a lot of the world's problems are over population and said population battling over barely sustainable resources I'd say they are in no hurry getting their sh*& together at all. If anything a lot of the world go go right to sh&^ if the brakes on certain things aren't applied very quickly.

Australia should really be about to go boom in a massive way, but wasting time when the economy was good and one sided policies that allienate many demographics mean we are a bit like the global warming problem (Damage has been done now need to prepare the effects).
 
Happy Mastenator said:
What do you mean? There are now 12,000 law graduates every year in Australia, into a market where there are only 60,000 legal jobs. We can always use MORE lawyers!

In all seriousness though, my fiance just graduated as a lawyer and difficulties she had in finding a position were amazing (so much harder than 10 years ago when i graduated in the same field). She was fortunate in ending up in a good spot but plenty of grads with honours who can't find a spot. Its disgusting what uni's are doing in terms of pumping out numbersm, all for the fee $'s, into a market that just cannot absorb them
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Its almost as if when you add a profit motive to something that should be a public service (i.e. the goal of it is to benefit the public, not to make a profit) the whole purpose of it completely turns to s**t.
 
Happy Mastenator said:
What do you mean? There are now 12,000 law graduates every year in Australia, into a market where there are only 60,000 legal jobs. We can always use MORE lawyers!

In all seriousness though, my fiance just graduated as a lawyer and difficulties she had in finding a position were amazing (so much harder than 10 years ago when i graduated in the same field). She was fortunate in ending up in a good spot but plenty of grads with honours who can't find a spot. Its disgusting what uni's are doing in terms of pumping out numbersm, all for the fee $'s, into a market that just cannot absorb them
Click to expand...

I don't know if disgusted is how I feel. More can't believe the double standards. If they want to be a business fine but then stop sticking your hand out for government money parroting what important cultural institutions you are. Put up some results or shut up. Treat them as a business rather than a mutual gov. funded kick back a lot would go under.
 
Run n Spread said:
I don't know if disgusted is how I feel. More can't believe the double standards. If they want to be a business fine but then stop sticking your hand out for government money parroting what important cultural institutions you are. Put up some results or shut up. Treat them as a business rather than a mutual gov. funded kick back a lot would go under.
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america pay for tertiary tuition
australia pay for private schooling
a century ago the best from Geelong grammar went to Oxford before the sandstone unis could sate tories and scions, or torys' scions, i think it is tory's to sate grammar pedants
 
medusala said:
:thumbsu::thumbsu:
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Contra Mundum
#janet_albrechtsen
#swedish_spectacles
#sadomasochism
#purple_patina_gluteus_Max
#lawyers_can_fark_2

co467.jpg
 
Just read that the 67 richest people o earth own as much wealth as the bottom half of the world's population.

Change is coming.
 
The Coup said:
There's just no way two generations who already pay more "living" in Australia are going to accept their entire lives are going to be worse than their parents, and get steadily worse the whole time.

There will come a tipping point. The responsibility right now is on the rich (they are, after all, the ones that have most of the wealth, and increasingly so).

The rich need to champion policy that redistributes wealth into valuable social and public works projects imo.

They're the only people the government will listen to, and the only ones with the power to make the change (well, we do have the power, but it involves a guillotine and nobody wants to go down that route if it can be avoided) imo.
Click to expand...

I agree but that redistribution shouldn't be here. As we now live in a global economy, a global society and a non-racist world we have to redistribute the wealth to our most poorest people on the planet who have no access to opportunity.

The "enemy" of poor people in Australia is poor people overseas willing to work for "nothing". So the only way to improve the lives of unskilled and poor people here in Oz is to improve the lives of unskilled and poor people globally.

So I am all for greater responsibility of the rich and I think you will find that is already happening. I just had dinner with an Oz iron ore family office, partnering up with a NZ group and the family office behind e-bay tackling slavery in India. According to them, there are 30m people living in slavery globally and 14m of those in India. Can you believe there are more people living in slavery than living in Oz?

I think that highlights we need to look after our most vulnerable people globally rather than those who think they have it tough. That said, by helping our weakest link, we are by default helping Australians as we will stop access to unfair labour.

Unfortunately, by helping out overseas we aren't helping locally as much as would otherwise be; but at least we are fixing the problem rather than covering up the cracks.
 
Run n Spread said:
Given a lot of the world's problems are over population and said population battling over barely sustainable resources I'd say they are in no hurry getting their sh*& together at all. If anything a lot of the world go go right to sh&^ if the brakes on certain things aren't applied very quickly.

Australia should really be about to go boom in a massive way, but wasting time when the economy was good and one sided policies that allienate many demographics mean we are a bit like the global warming problem (Damage has been done now need to prepare the effects).
Click to expand...

I don't subscribe to the misery view but

1) the world is over populated but it is still manageable. My preference is to see a reduction by 2B people over the next two centuries.
2) There are view few scarce resources, in fact there are less scarce resources than 20 years ago.
3) The only brakes that can be applied are bottle necks. Some people support bottle necks whilst those that "do" don't, so it is not a major concern especially in places that aren't democratic or in times of need.
4) global warming is a concern but the solution is really simple, so it is a non-event.
5) Australia has blown a massive opportunity but it is not the end of the world but we will pay a price.
 

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Happy Mastenator said:
What do you mean? There are now 12,000 law graduates every year in Australia, into a market where there are only 60,000 legal jobs. We can always use MORE lawyers!

In all seriousness though, my fiance just graduated as a lawyer and difficulties she had in finding a position were amazing (so much harder than 10 years ago when i graduated in the same field). She was fortunate in ending up in a good spot but plenty of grads with honours who can't find a spot. Its disgusting what uni's are doing in terms of pumping out numbersm, all for the fee $'s, into a market that just cannot absorb them
Click to expand...

and they still charge $400-$2,000 an hour?

maybe we should have 40,000 grads a year
 
Power Raid said:
I don't subscribe to the misery view but

1) the world is over populated but it is still manageable. My preference is to see a reduction by 2B people over the next two centuries.
2) There are view few scarce resources, in fact there are less scarce resources than 20 years ago.
3) The only brakes that can be applied are bottle necks. Some people support bottle necks whilst those that "do" don't, so it is not a major concern especially in places that aren't democratic or in times of need.
4) global warming is a concern but the solution is really simple, so it is a non-event.
5) Australia has blown a massive opportunity but it is not the end of the world but we will pay a price.
Click to expand...

Good to see positiveness is possible. Can see the reasoning in most of this except for 3. I was referring more the potential for current armed conflicts to get way out of hand in a number of regional areas unless certain alarming trends (i.e. fascism growing fundamentalism are bought to heel quickly. Cool heads need to prevail rather than everything getting jumped up). While I don't necessarily see a World War or Australia being directly involved certain events are significant and would have a global impact.
 
The Coup said:
Just read that the 67 richest people o earth own as much wealth as the bottom half of the world's population.

Change is coming.
Click to expand...
A good question to ask would be when is having too much money really too much? I bet those people wouldn't be able to spend all their money in their lifetime so what is the point in having all that extra money. Even if that money was left for their children it would probably be still too much.
 
little graham said:
He is estimated to have 80 billion? How many millions have died, lived in poverty, in gaol ect, so he could "earn" that? What about the environmental degradation as result of that, how much would it take to address it?
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He knows that. He also knows he wouldn't have made that money if it wasn't for state funded programs that he had access to.

But when the richest guy in the world knows that leaving your kids more than 10mil is taking the piss, and yet the 67 richest people own as much as the bottom half of the world's population.... i really hope there's a democratic answer for this.
 
little graham said:
He is estimated to have 80 billion? How many millions have died, lived in poverty, in gaol ect, so he could "earn" that? What about the environmental degradation as result of that, how much would it take to address it?
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how many people have been dragged out of poverty and lives improved because of his contribution to society.

and don't forget the money goes into the bank and is lent out or invested elsewhere. so the loss only equates to what he has consumed, rather than earned. do you have those figures?
 
little graham said:
He is estimated to have 80 billion? How many millions have died, lived in poverty, in gaol ect, so he could "earn" that? What about the environmental degradation as result of that, how much would it take to address it?
Click to expand...

Not sure what Bill can do about people dying, infant mortality rates and other measures continue to improve. Poverty in both absolute and relative terms has been declining for a long time. We have already reach the first Millennium Develop Goal - extreme poverty rate was halved in 2010 (against a 1990 baseline). There are now 700 million less people living in extreme poverty since 1981, around the time Bill started to earn some serious coin. You could argue the richer Bill Gates gets the fewer people live in extreme poverty :).

I think making people richer increases some forms of environmental degradation, you could argue rich people are more educated and have less children. Anyway, we are only now getting closer (but still a long way off) to breaking the link between income and environmental degradation - particularly energy use and income.
 
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