Society & Culture How expensive is Australia becoming?

[Leper]

It really is dull, and it's something people are obviously aware of. It's rare to meet someone who concedes their area has negatives, because they're too intent on showing its positives – because there aren't many. They are lifeless, they are soulless, they might have pretty names but they're not full of decent neighbours. They're hotbeds for snot nosed little pricks with shithead parents. They're near contrived parkland and ugly cream and brick, they open up to motorways and there's no sense of history or atmosphere.

I understand the cost of a nice suburb isn't financial. The bigger that mortgage, the less you can afford to give your kids nice things, spend money yourself, go on holidays, fix up your car... but rarely does someone living in a shithole cop that they do. Self-deprecation was a big part of the Australian identity and now it's been replaced by ego and thin skin.

The other thing is, people will live in a soulless satellite suburb but then spend a heap of money (or the banks) on TVs, cars, private schools, and other superfluous splurges that completely contradict the reason they live where they do (money). I remember kids living in bad areas, eating shocking food every night, but having boats and cars and going to Bali every four months. I'd much rather live in a nice area with some culture, that looks nice, that's close, and that has a sense of comfort to it; where you're not worried about bored 15-year olds smashing windows than have some wanky car and visible tokens of financial 'prowess' for display/ego purposes.

One of the best and most insightful posts I've seen on here in months.

I know how this sounds, but you can usually tell a place is going to meet the shithole steotype you describe when there is the standard line of generic fast food joints lining the highway as you enter the area.

 

[The_Reaper]

I believe that if you are a young, unattached (no kids, no wife, no debts) Australian today, you are insane to attach yourself to this country. Clinically insane.

Bludge at uni if that is your thing, or better yet, get yourself a trade. Then save some cash working a job for a few years, spend some time learning a foreign language on the side, and once you have some coin to your name, gtfo.

Unlike some here, I don't think our housing market is going to 'crash' any time soon. The government cannot afford to let that happen (I have explained why in other threads). So we'll see more and more market distortion (mass immigration, foreign investment, letting FHB use their 'super' to purchase houses, etc) which might drag this charade out for another twenty years.

But what kind of zombie wants to work two jobs for the next 25-30 years? And by two jobs I mean the government (look at how much tax you pay - this is a socialist country, they just don't tell you that in school or on tv - for obvious reasons) and the bank (look at how much of your repayments are interest - interest on money the bank creates out of thin air). That is on top of your official job, which for most people is one they either dislike or are unsatisfied by.

You sign up to that s**t and I wish you luck. You're going to need a **** tonne of it.

In other words your anecdote is irrelevant to the conversation. Things have changed in the last fifteen years. Kthxbai.

I've seriously considered moving to Penang to work and just fly back to Australia frequently.

It's not particularly far by plane and I have plenty of family there.

Don't even have to worry about property. Just need to brush up on my Hokkien a fair bit.

 

[Scotland]

I think this a myth that has been sold to us to keep us here.
There are very few things realistically that should keep you here over somewhere else.

This view is typically held by people who have already had a middle class Australian upbringing.

I'm critical of a number of aspects of Australia, but it's not easier to criticise from a position of privilege.

 

[Silent Alarm]

I haven't been to countries like Australia or too many countries totally different, so I can't comment too much, but how many nations have it better than Australia? I think most western countries have the same issues that Buddha's implying (governmental, social) we have. And yes, Australia is flawed in many ways and I think this place is losing the essence of what I now idealise. I don't think this is the worst country in the world to live in – and I say this as someone who doesn't want to live here forever.

Also, I think a big issue is people are attached to their cities. They have friends, a job, a house, all the things they've wanted to attain and that they would have to re-attain elsewhere. It's even rare to see wide-eyed 18-24 year olds leave their home town (unless they're from the country) for reasons other than rent and employment. Australians are parochial to what they've grown up: in the UK and US, it's pretty normal to grow up in one town, educate in another state, and get a job in a new city. I understand why people don't, but surely half the issue is a cultural intimidating and comfort. That's why people don't leave Australia more often.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

I haven't been to countries like Australia or too many countries totally different, so I can't comment too much, but how many nations have it better than Australia?

You've answered your own question, dude. Get out there and realise that the crap we are fed about being 'so lucky' is just that: crap.

You think the news in North Korea tells people how 'unlucky' they are? Hahahaahahaha, come on man.

A happy (enough) slave is a productive slave. A happy (enough) farm animal is a productive farm animal.

I say 'enough' because they still have to keep us fearful and insecure enough to chase the money dream and acquiesce to government power, so the 'happiness' that people have here is invariably illusory.

Work hard, have some soma. Terrorists abound, have some Big Brother.

Big Brother is my friend and without him where will I gets my soma?

 

[hamohawk1]

how does one go about moving overseas. unless i meet a lovely lady or get sent there for work it can be quite tough?

 

[Scotland]

Are you well travelled, SB?

 

[Simple Jack]

I haven't been to countries like Australia or too many countries totally different, so I can't comment too much, but how many nations have it better than Australia? I think most western countries have the same issues that Buddha's implying (governmental, social) we have. And yes, Australia is flawed in many ways and I think this place is losing the essence of what I now idealise. I don't think this is the worst country in the world to live in – and I say this as someone who doesn't want to live here forever.

If you want and idea of what people might be talking about just visit Hong Kong or Singapore or London or anywhere with a Octopus/Oyster/Whatever else style smartcard system that actually works well and then compare it to Myki. Then consider that instead of buying one of these well tested in the real world systems off the shelf, the state government spent an obscene amount of money on a piece of s**t system that barely (if at all) eclipses the one it replaced.

This website sums it up nicely: https://sites.google.com/site/cheaperthanmyki/
Some of my favourites includes an average space shuttle launch, the entire Mars rover mission, the construction of the Royal Childrens and Royal Womens Hospitals combined and the Burj Khalifa (the worlds tallest building) and the entire market value of Australia's second biggest airline.

I don't seem to recall anyone being held to any significant level of accountability over such a horrendous * up. One government did half of it, got kicked out for the others who then finished it and will be kicked out for the first mob again.

This is just one example in Victoria. Don't even get me started on our natural resources being pillaged and all the profits sent off shore, with little to no significant benefits to the country re: infrastructure etc or all of the industries that have been allowed to die.

And now I see they're building a brand new toll road at a cost somewhere in the order of 1 billion farking dollars per KM. Seems reasonable.

Edit: Should point out that I'm not even particularly well travelled. I've just been to enough very different places to notice these things.

 

[Scotland]

how does one go about moving overseas. unless i meet a lovely lady or get sent there for work it can be quite tough?

Depends where you wish to move and for what purpose.

If you are in your 20s you can apply for a working holiday visa in the UK for example which can give you a starting point.

If you just up and decide one day at 35 you want to relocate to Botswana forever it's probably a bit more complicated.

 

[Scotland]

Why would you look overseas to find a system that works better than Myki and didn't cost $1b?

Perth says hello.

 

[Simple Jack]

Why would you look overseas to find a system that works better than Myki and didn't cost $1b?

Perth says hello.

I only say that because I've extensively used the Hong Kong system and it's excellent, and it is accepted in 7/11 etc and is significantly faster than paywave/any other form of using a card. I've never left the airport in Perth.

 

[Scotland]

You've never lived.

We have Smartrider which is a simple 'tag on, tag off' ticketing system which from my experiences in Melbourne operates no different to Myki. It was much, much cheaper and introduced fairly seamlessly.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...t-apologist-not-a-reformer-20100118-mg9t.html

Myki is costing $1350 million, compared with Perth's fully-functioning $35 million SmartRider ticketing system. Perth's SmartRider project was run mainly by three people at Transperth, the public agency which plans and manages the city's public transport. Transperth has only 57 staff, while Melbourne's Transport Ticketing Authority alone employs twice that number

I'm staggered that Melbourne could get it so, so wrong compared to Perth. This is freaking Perth - the city where we've been talking about building a new stadium for 20 years while in the same time Melbourne has redeveloped the MCG, built Etihad and built AAMI Park.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Simple Jack Excellent post.

Scotland. Not particularly well-traveled. I spent about six months in South Africa though and got to check out most of the major cities, as well as some of the most impoverished areas on the planet.

Fortunately for me I have a Euro passport so when the time comes it is easier for me to take flight than it will be for others. Until they put me on a no-fly list, of course.

 

[Papa Juggs]

how does one go about moving overseas. unless i meet a lovely lady or get sent there for work it can be quite tough?

Same way that people move here. They apply to immigration authorities.

 

[Scotland]

Scotland. Not particularly well-traveled. I spent about six months in South Africa though and got to check out most of the major cities, as well as some of the most impoverished areas on the planet.

Fortunately for me I have a Euro passport so when the time comes it is easier for me to take flight than it will be for others. Until they put me on a no-fly list, of course.

Very fortunate indeed. I'm way too many generations 'strayan to get a UK or EU passport, so it's the slum lines at customs for me.

You (I assume) are an Australian citizen. You are free to live here and travel to and from countries we have a diplomatic relationship with (and probably some we don't). You are also able to hold EU citizenship and live and work anywhere within its expansive borders. I'd say that's pretty 'lucky'.

How will you fund your future travels? Save dole cheques? Get an easy job stacking shelves at Coles for $20 an hour? Use a govt subsidised tertiary qualification to get a more skilled job? I think you can probably see what I'm getting at.

Australia gives you options. One of those options is to move abroad, find something you prefer and think is 1,000 times then hate on the land down under, but that's still an option people should recognise doesn't exist in a lot of places.

 

[Dazb86]

It's extremely expensive.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

You (I assume) are an Australian citizen. You are free to live here and travel to and from countries we have a diplomatic relationship with (and probably some we don't)... I'd say that's pretty 'lucky'.

Begging the question.

How will you fund your future travels? Save dole cheques? Get an easy job stacking shelves at Coles for $20 an hour? Use a govt subsidised tertiary qualification to get a more skilled job? I think you can probably see what I'm getting at.

You are arguing that I am lucky to be in Australia because I can save enough money here to get out?

And that argument makes sense to you? You're further gone than I thought.

Australia gives you options. One of those options is to move abroad, find something you prefer and think is 1,000 times then hate on the land down under, but that's still an option people should recognise doesn't exist in a lot of places.

You are buying into a false binary. One can be critical of one's own nation without implying that other nations are in and of themselves good. You do understand that, right?

 

[Aussie Joe]

Why would you look overseas to find a system that works better than Myki and didn't cost $1b?

Perth says hello.

Those idiots who approved and oversaw Myki should be hung by their genitals in Fed Square and stoned by every poor sap that uses that God forsaken system

 

[Dazb86]

For all it's failures I don't mind the Myki system. Free travel before 7am helps though.

 

[JD11]

Cranbourne... wicked area

Hmm.

For all it's failures I don't mind the Myki system. Free travel before 7am helps though.

The thing that shits me about Myki is I catch the 96 all of 5 stops 2 times a day and pay the same as some schmuck going from Burwood to Altona...

Well, actually I pay nothing because I don't touch on but you get the drift.

 

[BEEG]

Expensive and quick becoming the nanny country

know few people in the past 18 months move overseas and are not coming back anytime soon

Cant blame them

 

[Scotland]

Begging the question.

You are arguing that I am lucky to be in Australia because I can save enough money here to get out?

And that argument makes sense to you? You're further gone than I thought.

You are buying into a false binary. One can be critical of one's own nation without implying that other nations are in and of themselves good. You do understand that, right?

You're trying to be too clever again.

You are lucky because you can save enough money here to do most things. Buy a house, travel abroad, collect stamps - whatever. You can do pretty much whatever you want safe in the knowledge that you always have safe little Australia to fall back on. Do you seriously not see how that is lucky? Prefer to be lower middle class in the US or UK?

One can be as critical of one's country as one likes, but if one just wants to be negative and fails to acknowledge the relative merits of said country relative to others then one's opinion can be pretty easily dismissed.

 

[Catfish Alley]

Simple JackFortunately for me I have a Euro passport so when the time comes it is easier for me to take flight than it will be for others. Until they put me on a no-fly list, of course.

Which European country do you fancy?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

You are lucky because you can save enough money here to do most things.

'Most things?' Lol. Completely unsubstantiated.

And why do you measure one's 'luck' by what they can buy with money?

Can you not see how narrow your worldview is, that you see things this way?

Can you not see that you have been conditioned to see things this way?

Catfish Alley PM sent

 

[craigos]

After living in Perth I will never complain about the pricing of food and beverages unless it relates to sporting events.
The day pints of draught get above the $10 a pint mark in a suburban pub is the day this country has officially lost its way.