Preview How I and the rest of the comp views Collingwood in 2015.

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Replace Frost with Brown and Reid with Keefe and 2015 can be anything, we get 25 games out of them then all of a sudden look out.

To be honest I'm not sure we need to replace Frost with Brown. Brown can fight off for Keeffe for the other spot. Reid can play anywhere, maybe he takes the other spot or maybe he plays third tall defender. Or forward. That experiment was curtailed due to injury only.

 

[lethalsaints]

Bottom 6.

 

[mike123]

To be honest I'm not sure we need to replace Frost with Brown. Brown can fight off for Keeffe for the other spot. Reid can play anywhere, maybe he takes the other spot or maybe he plays third tall defender.

Because Frost can't handle monster key forwards or kick the footy. I'd rather the combo of Brown and Keeffe and Reid up forward.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Because Frost can't handle monster key forwards or kick the footy. I'd rather the combo of Brown and Keeffe and Reid up forward.

Frost is still young and can learn to handle the bigger opponents. He did well coming from nowhere last year And I'm not sure Browns kicking is much better and his constant injuries are a concern. Keeffe needs to get better at the one on ones. His offensive play is pretty good but he still needs to do his main job better which is defend

I'm on the fence about Reid forward now because we have other options. Maybe he needs to go back where we have fewer options. The opportunity to play him forward may have passed for the moment.

 

[half_back_flank]

To be honest I'm not sure we need to replace Frost with Brown. Brown can fight off for Keeffe for the other spot. Reid can play anywhere, maybe he takes the other spot or maybe he plays third tall defender. Or forward. That experiment was curtailed due to injury only.

The difference between Frosty and Brown is that ball in hand Brown can hit that easy target. It offers us little going forward, but Frost was comical late last year, teams sagged off him and he coughed it up time and time again. If Brown is fit and Keeffe gets back to a semblance of his last half of 2013 form, Frost doesn't play half a dozen games this year.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The difference between Frosty and Brown is that ball in hand Brown can hit that easy target. It offers us little going forward, but Frost was comical late last year, teams sagged off him and he coughed it up time and time again. If Brown is fit and Keeffe gets back to a semblance of his last half of 2013 form, Frost doesn't play half a dozen games this year.

Harsh, in my opinion. Frost like a lot of first year players, struggled towards the end of a gruelling season covering for injured players. I'm happy to see Brown back to his best (if hitting easy targets is the best you can say about him, youre not saying a lot!) but due to constant injuries we have rarely seen his best. Even in 2010 he spent half the year in the reserves and was second choice to Presti...who ironically has a lot in common with Frost!

 

[half_back_flank]

Harsh, in my opinion. Frost like a lot of first year players, struggled towards the end of a gruelling season covering for injured players. I'm happy to see Brown back to his best (if hitting easy targets is the best you can say about him, youre not saying a lot!) but due to constant injuries we have rarely seen his best. Even in 2010 he spent half the year in the reserves and was second choice to Presti...who ironically has a lot in common with Frost!

IMO Frost exposed himself as the worst ball in hand regular in the comp in that last six weeks of the season. Both are excellent defenders, but Brown's defence efforts in 2013 shade Frosty's 2014 and while both offer little offensive, Brown can at least kick to advantage under pressure. Brown was underrated in 2013, only beaten a couple of times by the two best forwards in Franklin and Cameron (who Keeffe was better suited to both anyway).

If fit, it's Brown's spot to lose and Frost only plays in the same side as Brown if Keeffe doesn't improve on 2014 (which I think is unlikely).

I like Frost, but he needs to go back to the VFL and get some leather in his hands. Don't even play him as FB, play him as third tall, get it 15 times and get him used to being pressured in the defensive 50.

But you're right, we are more likely to see a fit Frosty than a fit Brown unfortunately.

 

[Gone Critical]

Maynard is a gun, if fit he should play from the get go and I'd have him in over either Williams or Toovey.

From what I have seen of him De Goey has never really impressed me a great deal, and at 187cm I wouldn't really class him as a tall midfielder anyway.

Maynard can hardly be considered a gun when he has yet to play a game and went pick 30 in the draft. Reality kids in this range are hit and miss. Few play a big number of games 1st year and only about 50% go onto have any meaningful AFL career. Let the kid settle into VFL footy this year. Any AFL time should be considered a bonus.

De Goey however has a pedigree that suggests early senior footy. He is the one I expect to shine at times in 2015

 

[mike123]

Frost is still young and can learn to handle the bigger opponents. He did well coming from nowhere last year And I'm not sure Browns kicking is much better and his constant injuries are a concern. Keeffe needs to get better at the one on ones. His offensive play is pretty good but he still needs to do his main job better which is defend

I'm on the fence about Reid forward now because we have other options. Maybe he needs to go back where we have fewer options. The opportunity to play him forward may have passed for the moment.

The main job defending is made allot easier when you hit targets coming out of defence. If you can a target you won't have the ball comming back as much and defending will easier. Brown not a great kick but he can hit up simple passes and plays it safe. Keeffe is young and learn can improve to defend, he is also 204cm those guys take a bit more time to develop.

I disagree that we have more options up forward. I think we have more options down back. AFL proven defenders we have Brown, Keeffe and Frost and Marsh is developing well in the VFL. Forwards we have Cloke and White Gault who is developing. We also have Moore that can play at both ends.

 

[mike123]

From what I have seen of him De Goey has never really impressed me a great deal, and at 187cm I wouldn't really class him as a tall midfielder anyway.

What do you consider a tall mid, over 190cm? Because if that's the case we have more tall mids then Hawthorn.

 

[Ken Bruce]

You overrate height, playing ability is much important.

It will be more like this.

OUT= Beams 187cm
IN= Uninjered Swan 185cm

OUT= McCaffer 187cm
IN = Greenwood 181cm

Despite us losing height here, We gain allot of Ball winning ability here.

OUT= Ball 183cm
IN= Adams 181cm
They are pretty similar players and the heigh difference does nothing. Adams form at the end of the year was better than Ball so on actual ability we improve here.

OUT= Lumumba 188cm
IN= Seedsman 190cm

OUT= Injured Swan 185cm
IN = Freeman 183cm

OUT = Maxwell 193cm
IN= Maynard 187cm

OUT: Blair 174c,
IN = Varcoe 180cm

One of the most ridiculous posts I've come across on BF. You've stated that height is unimportant and then continued on with the height comparisons...it doesn't matter how much you reshuffled the names around you have just traded Uninjured Swan 185cm in for Injured Swan who also stands at 185cm??? This in no way changes the height of your team and if you don't see the irony in this then something is seriously wrong.

Nice try though.

At least we can agree that Blair shouldn't be in your best 22.

 

[mike123]

One of the most ridiculous posts I've come across on BF.

Just re read some of your posts and you'll find its not that ridiculous.

you have just traded Uninjured Swan 185cm in for Injured Swan who also stands at 185cm???

This in no way changes the height of your team and if you don't see the irony in this then something is seriously wrong.[/QUOTE]

Want to know why I did that, to show playing ability is more important than height. The height difference doesn't matter, all you've done is crap on about height, tell me what's so important about height?

 

[Ken Bruce]

We attended to that at the draft. Nobody under 185.... six ft 1 in the old money. Plus Crisp, still a youngsster. Add Scharenburg to that from the previous draft along with Langdon who is already etablished and its clear that moves are in place to rectify the situation down the track. Seedsman is another taller youngster who was in an out of the team last season due to injury. Its not easily rectified overnight but plans are definitely afoot. The only shorter players picked up (Greenwood and Varcoe) are already established AFL players.

If anybody can find that magic wand, Blair for Fyfe please!

I wouldn't exactly say that they did address the issue at the draft. Beams was 187cm and Swan is 185cm and I have never heard either of those blokes referred to as "Tall Mids". I would say that they drafted 3 medium sized mids and a KPP in Moore. I can understand your argument with Seedsman but as you have previously stated it is unlikely that Crisps will be in your best 22.

They steered clear of the smaller blokes in the draft however in my opinion they would have greatly benefited from picking up at LEAST one taller mid. Any of Jayden Laverde, Kyle Langford or Tom Lamb would have been a better fit for the Pies.

 

[mike123]

I wouldn't exactly say that they did address the issue at the draft. Beams was 187cm and Swan is 185cm and I have never heard either of those blokes referred to as "Tall Mids".

Seriously, stop overeating tall mids. We won a premiership with only Pendlebury as our only "tall mid" and Hawthorn tallest mid was Will Langford at 187cm.

I would say that they drafted 3 medium sized mids and a KPP in Moore. I can understand your argument with Seedsman but as you have previously stated it is unlikely that Crisps will be in your best 22.

They steered clear of the smaller blokes in the draft however in my opinion they would have greatly benefited from picking up at LEAST one taller mid. Any of Jayden Laverde, Kyle Langford or Tom Lamb would have been a better fit for the Pies.

Its also unlikely that Langford, Lam or Laverde would have been best 22. We still have Karnezis on our list.

at LEAST one taller mid

We did, Jack Crisp he's more chance best 22 than any "taller" in the draft that was available. You rule him out only to suit your argument.

 

[Ken Bruce]

Maynard can hardly be considered a gun when he has yet to play a game and went pick 30 in the draft. Reality kids in this range are hit and miss. Few play a big number of games 1st year and only about 50% go onto have any meaningful AFL career. Let the kid settle into VFL footy this year. Any AFL time should be considered a bonus.

De Goey however has a pedigree that suggests early senior footy. He is the one I expect to shine at times in 2015

That is just my opinion of him. Where he went in the draft is completely irrelevant to my opinion of him and what I think of him as a player. I consider Maynard to be a gun!

However if you would like an example I'm pretty sure Beams went at pick 29 and turned out to be pretty handy for you guys.

I am however interested in De Goeys pedigree. I'm not very familiar with the term and would love for you to elaborate it's meaning and how it suggests he'll be suited to play early senior football

 

[Ken Bruce]

Just re read some of your posts and you'll find its not that ridiculous.


Want to know why I did that, to show playing ability is more important than height. The height difference doesn't matter, all you've done is crap on about height, tell me what's so important about height?

I know why you did it Mike, you were clutching at straws because you were losing an argument. You changed the topic so that you could argue a point that you felt you could win.

You didn't come up with a relevant response until your mate Timmy from Thomastown spoon fed one to you.

Its also unlikely that Langford, Lam or Laverde would have been best 22. We still have Karnezis on our list.



We did, Jack Crisp he's more chance best 22 than any "taller" in the draft that was available. You rule him out only to suit your argument.

I didn't rule out Jack Crisp either, Timmy from Thomastown did in an earlier post. I was quoting him because he seems to have a lot of knowledge on the Pies and a good understanding of there list and where it's at.

The only reason I have been harping on about the height of the list is because Collingwood said that it was something that they were hoping to address going into the draft. As I have previously stated I don't believe that they have addressed the issue at all after picking up three medium sized mids.

 

[mike123]

I know why you did it Mike, you were clutching at straws because you were losing an argument. You changed the topic so that you could argue a point that you felt you could win.

If anyone is clutching at straws it you Ken with your over obsession with height.

The only reason I have been harping on about the height of the list is because Collingwood said that it was something that they were hoping to address going into the draft. As I have previously stated I don't believe that they have addressed the issue at all after picking up three medium sized mids.

Our issue was with lack of 185-189cm medium mids not 190cm+. We already have Pendlebury who is a champion and we are developing Karnesis and added crips. You still haven't given a reason why tall mids are all of a sudden important an should be top priority.

Again you dodge the question but claim I'm losing the argument.

 

[Ken Bruce]

If anyone is clutching at straws it you Ken with your over obsession with height.



Our issue was with lack of 185-189cm medium mids not 190cm+. We already have Pendlebury who is a champion and we are developing Karnesis and added crips. You still haven't given a reason why tall mids are all of a sudden important an should be top priority.

Again you dodge the question but claim I'm losing the argument.

I feel like I have just answered this. I believe that tall mids are important because your club went to the draft claiming that they wanted to address the fact that they lacked height in the midfield.

I do not have an obsession with height, I am simply outlining the issues in your list that your club wanted to rectify going to the draft.

This is not an opinion of mine, these are claims that your club made going into the draft, before they then drafted 3 medium sized midfielders.

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting so confused about or why you keep going around in circles.

Feel free to stop asking the same questions over and over and simply reread my previous posts.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I wouldn't exactly say that they did address the issue at the draft. Beams was 187cm and Swan is 185cm and I have never heard either of those blokes referred to as "Tall Mids". I would say that they drafted 3 medium sized mids and a KPP in Moore. I can understand your argument with Seedsman but as you have previously stated it is unlikely that Crisps will be in your best 22.

They steered clear of the smaller blokes in the draft however in my opinion they would have greatly benefited from picking up at LEAST one taller mid. Any of Jayden Laverde, Kyle Langford or Tom Lamb would have been a better fit for the Pies.

They are not short people which is my point. It wasnt a major point either, just a peripheral comment I made really. They certainly are on the taller end of the spectrum. As to who they coulda shoulda picked up well only time will tell. I dont profess to be an expert and you seem to have some knowledge in this area, so I'll politely step back from discussing the draft any further.

Tall mids like Penlenury or Fyfe (190+) are pretty hard to find though.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I didn't rule out Jack Crisp either, Timmy from Thomastown did in an earlier post. I was quoting him because he seems to have a lot of knowledge on the Pies and a good understanding of there list and where it's at..

I ruled him out of our round one team. He may have height on his side but by all accounts he has a lot of weaknesses too. I expect he will spend most of his year in the seconds.

And as mentioned by another poster, we also have Karnesiz. Along with Seedsman hes exactly the type of mid you are referring to.....we already have them...we just need them fit and on the park.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I disagree that we have more options up forward. I think we have more options down back. AFL proven defenders we have Brown, Keeffe and Frost and Marsh is developing well in the VFL. Forwards we have Cloke and White Gault who is developing. We also have Moore that can play at both ends.

I hope youre right. If Brown can get back to his best and Keeffe can continue the improvement he was showing up until last year, then we will have genuine flexibility with Reid (and Moore for that matter). We could even play Reid as one of those "tall mids" we seem to be so desperately short of.

 

[Gone Critical]

That is just my opinion of him. Where he went in the draft is completely irrelevant to my opinion of him and what I think of him as a player. I consider Maynard to be a gun!

However if you would like an example I'm pretty sure Beams went at pick 29 and turned out to be pretty handy for you guys.

I am however interested in De Goeys pedigree. I'm not very familiar with the term and would love for you to elaborate it's meaning and how it suggests he'll be suited to play early senior football

Strictly speaking his draft pick can be considered irrelevant to your opinion but it is certainly relevant to the likelihood of Maynard being a gun. It is also very relevant to the likelihood of him playing round one or any senior footy in 2015. Put briefly guns of the future are much more commonly picked up top 10 compared to down the draft and top draft picks play a good amount of senior footy in season one whereas kids picked in say the 25-35 range where Maynard lives play little senior footy season 1. These are generalisations but are true. The fact that there are exceptions such as Beams doesn't change that. All it means is the recruiters underestimated how good Beams was, if they knew how good he was to be he would have been picked early.

I am like most on big footy who watch a few highlight packages and read the various bios of draftees. As a such my views are generic and relatively uninformed re individual players. You may be different and attend a lot of TAC cup footy as well as viewing stuff from the other states and U18 champs etc. if that is the case I would be interested in why your view is at odds with the mass of recruiters out there. If they had considered him a gun in the making who would slot into a team round 1 he would have been a clear top 10 choice but none of them saw him that way.

Then on top of that you want to place 2 established senior players in Toovey and Williams behind Maynard in round 1 selection. That's just a nonsense statement in January of the kids 1st season.

As to DeGoey my use of pedigree was slightly out of definition. What I meant he is a high draft pick from a solid footy background and astable family situation living in his home state. Again just generic observations but it just means the probability of De Goey playing season one and ending a very good AFL player is high. Again if you are that avid TAC watcher I am interested to know why you have a contrary view to Hine

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

As to DeGoey my use of pedigree was slightly out of definition. What I meant he is a high draft pick from a solid footy background and astable family situation living in his home state. Again just generic observations but it just means the probability of De Goey playing season one and ending a very good AFL player is high. Again if you are that avid TAC watcher I am interested to know why you have a contrary view to Hine

Pretty sad when you have to proof read your posts like that. When posters are getting pedantic over terminology like "pedigree" and "tall midfielders" you know they are startting to clutch at straws.

 

[theflea]

Pretty sad when you have to proof read your posts like that. When posters are getting pedantic over terminology like "pedigree" and "tall midfielders" you know they are startting to clutch at straws.

BF is full of lawyers.

 

[iGNITER]

Pretty sad when you have to proof read your posts like that. When posters are getting pedantic over terminology like "pedigree" and "tall midfielders" you know they are startting to clutch at straws.

Some people would prefer to scroll through threads looking for mistakes rather than actually comment on a topic at hand I guess