List Mgmt. How many list openings do we need heading in to 2015?

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I have trouble with Minch.
Sometimes I think, "yeah let him go" but then I read VFL reports like this

Darren MinchingtonDarren played the majority of the match on the ball, and that's where he has improved most this year. He's now able to run out games as a midfielder and though he rested forward, his work in the guts was very good. He was strong over the ball and his ball security was also tremendous. And it wasn't just his inside stuff that impressed me, it was also Minchy's creativity when he got the ball that helped us with our ball transition.

And I start drooling on the keyboard.
 
I have trouble with Minch.
Sometimes I think, "yeah let him go" but then I read VFL reports like this

Darren MinchingtonDarren played the majority of the match on the ball, and that's where he has improved most this year. He's now able to run out games as a midfielder and though he rested forward, his work in the guts was very good. He was strong over the ball and his ball security was also tremendous. And it wasn't just his inside stuff that impressed me, it was also Minchy's creativity when he got the ball that helped us with our ball transition.

And I start drooling on the keyboard.

i thought he was tough to be dropped. they way he delivered the ball inside 50 was probably the best i have seen from any saints player in years
 
i thought he was tough to be dropped. they way he delivered the ball inside 50 was probably the best i have seen from any saints player in years

I think we are past the point where we need to get MORE draft picks ( ie 2012 ). We have plenty of players who could be anything and others who shouldn't be shoved into retirement just yet.
I think the strategy should be to trade for quality. ie pick 4 and 3 for a pick 2 etc. Player and pick for better pick.
 

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God Save Max King

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I think we are past the point where we need to get MORE draft picks ( ie 2012 ). We have plenty of players who could be anything and others who shouldn't be shoved into retirement just yet.
I think the strategy should be to trade for quality. ie pick 4 and 3 for a pick 2 etc. Player and pick for better pick.
I disagree. Darren Minchington is not a member of a premiership winning midfield, IMO. We need quantity and quality.
 
I disagree. Darren Minchington is not a member of a premiership winning midfield, IMO. We need quantity and quality.
Maybe not as a midfielder but I could see him on a forward flank doing the odd rotation in there. Then again I'm biased to blokes who can kick..
 
Averages per game in 2014:

Eli: 8.17 disposals per game, 0.67 goals.

Minchington: 9.33 disposals per game, 1.33 goals.

I know Minchington is a couple of years older than Eli (still only 20 though) but I think it's fair to say Eli came in with a much better tank.
 
Minchington is the toughest call list wise this year.
I think Shenton is pretty hard too.
I would think the most likely in the firing line are TDL and Dunnell then maybe a shock Nick Winmar style delisting of Siposs, Markworth or Simpkin. They don't really care about paying out contract because they will struggle to meet the minimum cap.
 
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I think Shenton is pretty hard too.
I would think the most likely in the firing line are TDL and Dunnell then maybe a shock Nick Winmar style delisting of Siposs, Markworth or Simpkin. They don't really care about paying out contract because they will struggle to meet the minimum cap.
Minch is harder due to his position... We are crying out for small/medium forwards that could potentially rotate into the middle for 5 minutes here & there.

Shenton on the other hand is a half back, & probably wouldnt have even got a go if Webster, Gilbert, Wright, Geary & Fisher didnt all have LTI's this year.

TBH, I'd like to keep them both. I think Milera will be the one to be delisted in Nick Winmar style (ie; while contracted) because of his age, i just don't see how he'll improve starting next season at 27 yrs old!
 

Sir Skid

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I think Milera will be the one to be delisted in Nick Winmar style (ie; while contracted) because of his age, i just don't see how he'll improve starting next season at 27 yrs old!
Agree with this. Seems in the mid range of a VFL and AFL player.
Not sure if he is a genuine AFL small fwd tbh.
Looks like he'll get cut in half every time he's tackled too.
 
Right now, these seem the obvious ones.

OUTS:

Retire: Hayes, Maister

Trade or FA: Gwilt (3rd round, either Adelaide's or FA)

Delist: TDL, Dunell

That opens up 5 spots.

INS:

Rookie Upgrades: Weller, Shenton.

That leaves 3 spots to fill.

If we upgrade Minch as well, that leaves us with only 2 spots to fill. I would play him these last 3 games, and tell him he's playing for his career. Hopefully, he responds. Let's assume for now that he does.

And, if we decide to draft Ahmed back onto the main list, that would mean only ONE draft pick.

That is just not going to happen when we're at the bottom of the ladder.

Thus, you'd have to assume that Ahmed is a definite rookie pick. If somebody else wants to be a tool and take him earlier, then we'll shrug our shoulders and say, "that's life".

That gets us back to 2 spots in the draft, but really, we would want about 4. This is especially because if we only take 2 or 3, we may well not use the Gwilt compensation pick, effectively meaning we threw him away for nothing. While I don't think he's got the greatest value right now, getting nothing for him seems a touch much.

We would have probably retired Fisher, but he's been too good since coming back, and the club has published that he's staying on.

So, then, who do we cull for those last 2 spots, to get us to 4?

There are three options: 1, delist - er, sorry, "retire" - an oldie (the two most likely being Jones and/or Schneider); 2, trade a contracted middler who's not on the upward (Siposs, Simpkin, Milera); or 3, delist an uncontracted "maybe" player (Markworth, Roberton).
  1. We have to be very careful about delisting Jones or Schneider. They provide hard bodies to protect kids, and/or experience and nous for the kids to learn from. Compound that with the amount of games lost by losing those two AND Hayes and Gwilt, and it becomes a "Demonesque" risk.
  2. If we - the 18th team - don't rate them enough to keep them, then nobody else will either.
  3. It'd be pretty harsh to delist either of those, and both still have enough potential to stay on for one more year at least.
For mine, I'm for option 1. We still have plenty of old heads on each line, and many of our "kids" will be near 50 games and in their 4th years by 2015. We don't need Schneids or Jones from here.

THUS, to revise my previous list:

OUTS:

Retire: Hayes, Maister, Jones, Schneider

Trade or FA: Gwilt (3rd round, either Adelaide's or FA)

Delist: TDL, Dunell

Massive call, and risky simply because of the amount of games lost. But yeah. That gives us 4 spots in the draft/trade.
  1. Petracca, McCartin or Cameron.
  2. A good second rounder
  3. A good third rounder
  4. Jakshe, Membrey or somebody in the PSD or through a trade based on the threat of the PSD.
That gets Minch upgraded as well, remember. If Minch doesn't perform in these last 3 games (either because he sucks in them, or doesn't play at all because they've already stamped his papers), then that may mean Schneids stays on for another year.
 
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I think Jones is kaput.

Is anyone open to the idea of bringing back Luke Ball for a year (a la GWS with McDonald, Power & Cornes) to help develop the midfield, if he is delisted by Collingwood? Perhaps on the rookie list?
 

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Manimal_Dunstan

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I think Jones is kaput.

Is anyone open to the idea of bringing back Luke Ball for a year (a la GWS with McDonald, Power & Cornes) to help develop the midfield, if he is delisted by Collingwood? Perhaps on the rookie list?
No from me just because i think he'll retire, body has struggled this year.
 

Sir Skid

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No to Ball.
Time has caught up with his body IMO.
Much rather use a spot on any of the list for an up and coming outside mid from the draft.
Another Eli or Luke Ball???? Eli please!
 
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I think Jones is kaput.

Is anyone open to the idea of bringing back Luke Ball for a year (a la GWS with McDonald, Power & Cornes) to help develop the midfield, if he is delisted by Collingwood? Perhaps on the rookie list?

No to bringing any older blokes back really. We have enough experience on our list and bringing blokes in for a year means a young guy misses out on an opportunity.
 

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I don't think this draft has as much depth, so saying that we don't want to delist too many players this year, give 2 players maybe 3 another year to prove themselves, if it doesn't work out then 12 months later it will easier to delist them, and give us other picks in the following years draft. We are a young side as it is.

I have -
2 retires - Lenny and Maister
2 rookies upgraded

5-6 seniors that could be delisted
1 rookie delisted.
(will name who after season finishes)

*so from those 5-6 seniors that maybe delisted, you may give 2 maybe 3 another year, they maybe players towards end of career, or fringe players that you keep for depth/injuries.

So going into draft I have -

5 draft picks - 2 later picks which are used on rookie upgrades
3 rookie picks - 1 I hope to be used on Saad

So we go into the draft having 3 picks, same as last year.
This obviously doesn't include trading players and gaining extra picks.
 
With Minch being put back on the Rookie list, I think that it's safe to assume he's done, and will not be upgraded at years end. This saves either Schneider or Jones. I'll say Schneider stays.

OUTS:

Retire: Hayes, Maister, Jones

Trade or FA: Gwilt (3rd round, either Adelaide's or FA)

Delist: TDL, Dunell

That's 6 spots opening up on the main list.

INS:

Rookie upgrades: Weller, Shenton.

That leaves 4 spots:
  1. Petracca, McCartin or Cameron.
  2. A good second rounder
  3. A good third rounder
The 4th and last spot on the main list, comes with a few options: The most likely, I think is a trade for a PSD-vulnerable player, like Jakshe or Membrey, as I've said. However, we may also use another 3rd round pick (given we'll have the Gwilt compo one, and thus have two 3rd round picks) on another young player in the draft.

The other interesting thing, is the rookie list. With Minch gone, and Shents and Mav upgraded, we'll have 3 of our 4 spots available. Increasingly, I think Saad will be gone by the Rookie draft, given the article that came out today about five clubs being into him.
 

Manimal_Dunstan

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I don't think Minchington going back to the rookie list guarantees he'll be gone...

He was elevated in place of Geary which means he had to be headed back to the rookie list with Geary returning - because i think it's to late now in the season to place anyone on the LTI list to elevate him again.

In saying that i do think he will be delisted although i think he has the tools.
 

Manimal_Dunstan

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Cant we get Saad through the rookie draft or something? That way we'll most likely have the first pick or does he have to nominate for all drafts before that?
Has to nominate for all drafts i think. I'm probably wrong though.

As i said yesterday in the Trade/Draft/FA thread if we want him back i think he'll find his way back here for sure despite "interest" from other clubs. Because i think he'll want to repay the saints after what he did which he'd let other clubs know and a gentleman agreement thing may happen - the club owe him nothing. Just my opinion on it though.
 
Has to nominate for all drafts i think. I'm probably wrong though.

As i said yesterday in the Trade/Draft/FA thread if we want him back i think he'll find his way back here for sure despite "interest" from other clubs. Because i think he'll want to repay the saints after what he did which he'd let other clubs know and a gentleman agreement thing may happen - the club owe him nothing. Just my opinion on it though.
Boooooooo. Wouldn't put it past Essendon to grab him, they're good at making enemies.
 
Boooooooo. Wouldn't put it past Essendon to grab him, they're good at making enemies.
Yep, it would be a really low, shoddy club that would take Saad from us. Unfortunately, Essendon fits that description perfectly.
 

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