Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier?

[nobbyiscool]

Once he learned of the legalities it was moronic not to proceed

It was moronic to not build a $22b road that was going to lose money, that never had a mandate, that was going to increase congestion in some areas, and that their own business case said was a white elephant... all because the previous government signed a dodgy side letter at 5 minutes to midnight in the electoral cycle that they had no right to sign?

I think this E/W project is such a stark example of why politics in this country is so s**t - people pick their team like it's a sport, and from then on they have the complete inability to be objective, and will support any idiotic and irrational proposal put up by "their team."

Given what we now know about E/W link from the report last month, it is truly mindboggling that people are still stupid enough to try and find a justification for this road when there is literally none.

It is equally mindboggling that people on the "Liberal team" continue to say that Andrews spent the money to not build the road - he didn't. It was the Liberals who signed the side letter, despite being well behind in the polls, and despite Labor saying they wouldn't build it. It was the Liberals who spent that $1.2b (or whatever it is) - it wasn't Labor.

 

[PetrikDngerfild]

No one gives a * about a bunch of newly welcomed Chinese and their inane road. Or the 50% retired vintage white demograhic that still lives in these suburbs instead of a nursing home. They already have 2 private train lines (Alamein/Glen Waverley), a tram to vermont... x10 main/link roads that all interlock nicely, east link, and even the Monash.

Use the train instead or the Doncaster bus service (which again is far better than any other area's bus timetable).

Why do we need more Chinese and old people on the road? This is good because it stops all the freeloaders in Melbournes East getting further disproportional capital growth compared to every other region in Melbourne.

Only reason the rich got richer and those houses went up is because Chinese want good state schools... so basically we all pay for a school, only the *ing rich get it, then their houses triple because of it!! Stuff ya stupid road and take the growth from the schools we all paid for and buy the road yourself.

Talk about entitlement, 3 train lines, 1 tram line, 3 freeways, infinity arterials, best bus services, all paid for by the state!!!

 

[The Punter]

Theres probably a rail project idea that is a big a waste of money as the ew link.

As far as CBA is concerned, the rail example is the Doncaster Rail Line. Every government gets elected promising a study, then the study shows the sums don't add up.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

As far as CBA is concerned, the rail example is the Doncaster Rail Line. Every government gets elected promising a study, then the study shows the sums don't add up.

The problem with things like the Doncaster line is that successive governments over the last 100 years have done things to rail corridors ect that have made them more expensive and less "viable" at least as far as a CBA is concerned. The Doncaster line should have been an easy extension of the Kew line, but guess what doesn't exist anymore, same story with the Rowville Line it should have been an easy extension of the Glen Waverley line, but in there infinite wisdom they never set aside a rail corridor at the end of it and allowed the station to get boxed in, so now the only option other than what can be assumed is a prohibitively expensive tunnel is to split it off the really busy Dandenong Spur.

The Doncaster line is like the Rowville line something both sides trot out with no intention of building and then ensuring that the get a CBA or study that will give them an out/confirm the decision that has already been made.

 

[The Punter]

Well, we have to deal with the situation as it is now. I'm sure E-W Link would have been cheaper if the suburb of Fitzroy North didn't exist.

 

[pazza]

But does it stand achance of getting freight off the roads, as suggested.

Id say not

It does a fair bit already.

Living as close to the national rail line as it goes through Werribee, it's a constant.

Remember, this was a Paul Keating legacy, a national rail line on one gauge. Number of trains per day using it? Can't give an accurate figure but it seems one an hour. Also, it services the rail yards at Dynon and South Dynon and freight yards such as the one at Laverton. This standard gauge line also services the XPT between Melbourne and Sydney, the Overland from Melbourne to Adelaide, the Indian Pacific from Sydney to Perth and the Ghan from Adelaide to Darwin.

 

[medusala]

More broadly, go and read up on induced demand to see why countries are generally moving away from building more roads.

The best way to think about transport planning is to move people, not vehicles. The latter is old style VicRoads thinking that got us the traffic that leaves you at a standstill when you drive to town. From your perspective, you're sitting in your car thinking "this is a mess, we need more roads." But more roads attract more traffic and soon you're back where you started.

I remember reading about Poms figuring this out in the 90s ie just making ever wider freeways just attracted more traffic (and that was before they started to have far greater immigration under Blair). Their two new big projects are CrossRail for London (BADLY needed) and a fast train to the north (probably a white elephant).

On the other hand I have an engineering mate who works for a big construction company who insists roads easily beat rail on a cost benefit analysis so stuffed if I know what the real answer is.

The one thing out of Victoria's hands though is immigration. If you let hundreds of thousands in every year then it doesn't take a genius to work out that pressure will get greater in the future.

 

[Pessimistic]

It does a fair bit already.

Living as close to the national rail line as it goes through Werribee, it's a constant.

Remember, this was a Paul Keating legacy, a national rail line on one gauge. Number of trains per day using it? Can't give an accurate figure but it seems one an hour. Also, it services the rail yards at Dynon and South Dynon and freight yards such as the one at Laverton. This standard gauge line also services the XPT between Melbourne and Sydney, the Overland from Melbourne to Adelaide, the Indian Pacific from Sydney to Perth and the Ghan from Adelaide to Darwin.

That freight is nit suburban. Theres huge growth in suburban deliveries probably fueled by internet parcel traffic and its this that adds to congestion

 

[Farm Boy]

It was moronic to not build a $22b road that was going to lose money, that never had a mandate, that was going to increase congestion in some areas, and that their own business case said was a white elephant... all because the previous government signed a dodgy side letter at 5 minutes to midnight in the electoral cycle that they had no right to sign?

I think this E/W project is such a stark example of why politics in this country is so s**t - people pick their team like it's a sport, and from then on they have the complete inability to be objective, and will support any idiotic and irrational proposal put up by "their team."

Given what we now know about E/W link from the report last month, it is truly mindboggling that people are still stupid enough to try and find a justification for this road when there is literally none.

It is equally mindboggling that people on the "Liberal team" continue to say that Andrews spent the money to not build the road - he didn't. It was the Liberals who signed the side letter, despite being well behind in the polls, and despite Labor saying they wouldn't build it. It was the Liberals who spent that $1.2b (or whatever it is) - it wasn't Labor.

Andrews did say that he would get the contract ripped up though, and that it wouldn't cost the taxpayer a cent. That hasn't been the case. He did make this promise prior to getting elected, and that promise could have swayed a lot of voters towards him. I know I voted Andrews, and now I want to absolutely throttle the bloke, I feel as though I have been lied to (just like Abbott did). If Andrews had of been honest from the get go, I would've still voted for him. There is no need to lie. That being said, I won't sit and listen to people put this moron up on a pedestal (when he is just as bad as the rest of them).

 

[nobbyiscool]

Andrews did say that he would get the contract ripped up though, and that it wouldn't cost the taxpayer a cent. That hasn't been the case. He did make this promise prior to getting elected, and that promise could have swayed a lot of voters towards him. I know I voted Andrews, and now I want to absolutely throttle the bloke, I feel as though I have been lied to (just like Abbott did). If Andrews had of been honest from the get go, I would've still voted for him. There is no need to lie. That being said, I won't sit and listen to people put this moron up on a pedestal (when he is just as bad as the rest of them).

I'm fairly sure this was because of the side-letter that Napthine signed during the caretaker period, without consent or bipartisanship, that promised compensation to the contractors. Happy to be corrected - it's been a few months now since the report into it was released, but I seem to remember that being the case.

Regardless - you don't throw good money after bad. You don't spend $22b on a road without a sound business case, and that would've worsened congestion at the Clifton Hill end, because of a bad contract signed by a previous premier desperately trying to cling to power.

 

[Pessimistic]

Both sides have a lot to prove, and the infrastructure spend must be quarantined from politicians (and their donors)

There have been positive bipartisan moves in this regard recently, but the bailleu/napthine/abbott combo put it back several years for Victoria (not to mention the odd billion dollars)

Both the state and federal ibs were going to use EW as a wedge for elections. too bad it was a Dud

And now we are hearing about short sitedness of Kennet govt selling so many school sites - how much has added school travel contributed to congestion?

 

[pazza]

Both sides have a lot to prove, and the infrastructure spend must be quarantined from politicians (and their donors)

There have been positive bipartisan moves in this regard recently, but the bailleu/napthine/abbott combo put it back several years for Victoria (not to mention the odd billion dollars)

Both the state and federal ibs were going to use EW as a wedge for elections. too bad it was a Dud

And now we are hearing about short sitedness of Kennet govt selling so many school sites - how much has added school travel contributed to congestion?

And the cost of fees and the like of those left behind.

Plus the lack of planning (there's that issue again) for the growing outer suburbs for schools, hospitals and parkland. That area alone is one almighty cluster ****.

 

[tandino]

I'm fairly sure this was because of the side-letter that Napthine signed during the caretaker period, without consent or bipartisanship, that promised compensation to the contractors. Happy to be corrected - it's been a few months now since the report into it was released, but I seem to remember that being the case.

The side letter was signed before the Government went into caretaker mode, and it's existence was well known throughout the election period.

 

[Pessimistic]

The side letter was signed before the Government went into caretaker mode, and it's existence was well known throughout the election period.

I'm sure they went to the letter of the law.
Voters don't need to. Maybe the tricky behavior upset some voters,. Its not unknown

 

[tandino]

I'm sure they went to the letter of the law.
Voters don't need to. Maybe the tricky behavior upset some voters,. Its not unknown

Undoubtedly.

But the scenario that I replied to is incorrect.

 

[Schraderbrau]

his name is dan

 

[Whit3y]

id much rather the east west link then the desel plant

at least the link would have gotten used

 

[CM86]

id much rather the east west link then the desel plant

at least the link would have gotten used

Isn't part of the problem that it would be used, and create more problems than it fixed?

 

[wmvaux]

I've hardly seen Daniel Andrews, in the media and also the opposition leader who I can't even think of his name. Is it Guy???
So that might be a good thing, but honestly have no idea what he's really done. I've heard about the level crossings in recent weeks, but nothing much else.

 

[romeohwho]

He has been ordinary. Hasn't done much wrong and light years ahead of Napthine and Guy but I was hoping for a bit more, still hopeful he can improve.

 

[Pessimistic]

The headline level crossings so far have been instigated by the previous government. If they do succeed in upping the pace of the crossing removal, it will have been an improvement.

 

[pazza]

The headline level crossings so far have been instigated by the previous government. If they do succeed in upping the pace of the crossing removal, it will have been an improvement.

That being said, there's been a quick turnaround.

6 months for the Burke Road crossing is incredibly quick.

 

[Visions]

I've hardly seen Daniel Andrews, in the media and also the opposition leader who I can't even think of his name. Is it Guy???
So that might be a good thing, but honestly have no idea what he's really done. I've heard about the level crossings in recent weeks, but nothing much else.

You only see Dan when there is an announcement to be made that is half positive. Any time some bad news comes along, he throws one of his colleagues under the bus to front the media with himself nowhere to be seen. That's why you don't see him.

 

[AM]

You only see Dan when there is an announcement to be made that is half positive. Any time some bad news comes along, he throws one of his colleagues under the bus to front the media with himself nowhere to be seen. That's why you don't see him.

The only political leader to do that, is he?

 

[Visions]

The only political leader to do that, is he?

Other leaders will come out and offer feeble excuses/statements at least. Dan just goes totally MIA, nowhere to be seen or heard from.

Ever since just before the election when giving a statement on why he backflipped on the East West Tunnel contract and stumbling over his words while sweating like a waterfall, he has stopped facing the media whenever something with the government goes wrong.