I am Jason Macartney – what do I do after R23?

[ivan rassmussen]

Wow, if even only a few of the rumours are true, Jason is very busy at the moment. Has anyone seen him recently? I'm betting he's either locked in his office at WO on the phone, or jetting to Sydney almost daily to talk to Jaksch/WHE/O'Rourke/Cameron/S.Reid.

Or maybe he's doing none of that and just kicking back, because the 750k a year for 5 years offer we put to Jeremy Cameron has been quietly accepted, as has the 2mill over 4 years for S.Reid.

 

[grassman75]

OK now this is driving me crazy who or what is 'WHE'

I was going to say it is an acronym for all the KPP draft picks we have pissed (WHE) up the wall

 

[wian]

somehow i think we will beat GWS and carlton will lose so we wont be getting pick 5 sadly

 

[Libba39]

Pick 5 or 6 won't really matter. What will really matter to Jason Macartney is who we are going to trade to St Kilda for pick 1. For me the only players with trade value not up for grabs are Libba, Bont, Griffen, Hrovat, Macrae, and Wood, and maybe Roberts and Talia.

We are going to need one or two quality players to upgrade to pick one. Quality players, not Grant or Jones as other clubs won't go for them.

I'm thinking of:
Higgins
Roughead
Dahlhaus
Minson

People might criticise these selections but if we want the top pick we have to think seriously about what we need to take the next step.

 

[Dogsman16]

Pick 5 or 6 won't really matter. What will really matter to Jason Macartney is who we are going to trade to St Kilda for pick 1. For me the only players with trade value not up for grabs are Libba, Bont, Griffen, Hrovat, Macrae, and Wood, and maybe Roberts and Talia.

We are going to need one or two quality players to upgrade to pick one. Quality players, not Grant or Jones as other clubs won't go for them.

I'm thinking of:
Higgins
Roughead
Dahlhaus
Minson

People might criticise these selections but if we want the top pick we have to think seriously about what we need to take the next step.

Like the thinking issue is St kilda are not going to be interested in either Minson and Roughead as they have two upcoming rucks. They arent going to trade for a FA nor would Shaun want to go to St Kilda and Dahlhaus should not be traded under any circumstance. They will want a midfielder and one of decent quality such as a Hrovat or Hunter.
Better to look at pick 2 and try and trade up for it.

 

[timtamWB]

Pick 5 or 6 won't really matter. What will really matter to Jason Macartney is who we are going to trade to St Kilda for pick 1. For me the only players with trade value not up for grabs are Libba, Bont, Griffen, Hrovat, Macrae, and Wood, and maybe Roberts and Talia.

We are going to need one or two quality players to upgrade to pick one. Quality players, not Grant or Jones as other clubs won't go for them.

I'm thinking of:
Higgins
Roughead
Dahlhaus
Minson

People might criticise these selections but if we want the top pick we have to think seriously about what we need to take the next step.

Higgins, if he is going, is going to go as a free agent. Also not enough currency.

Just no to Roughead. I don't need to explain this anymore.

No to Dahlhaus. I really don't need to explain this one.

Minson wouldn't have that much currency, but I wouldn't trade him anyway. Saints already have Longer and Hickey, if they wanted someone like Minson they wouldn't have gotten rid of McEvoy.

 

[Libba39]

Would rather take chance with pick 6 than waste trading players for 2. Pick one is only guaranteed way to get the player that you want.

As for Dahl he is a real goer but in recent weeks the skills of hrovat are shining through whereas our number 6 is showing why he was a late pick.

 

[timtamWB]

Would rather take chance with pick 6 than waste trading players for 2. Pick one is only guaranteed way to get the player that you want.

As for Dahl he is a real goer but in recent weeks the skills of hrovat are shining through whereas our number 6 is showing why he was a late pick.

Dahl is still a cult player, and still a very good player. In recent weeks fatigue is beginning to show, as this year he upped from being 10/90 mid/forward into an 85/15 mid/forward. And so he's beginning to make a few more mistakes than he normally does. He's never going to have the skill of Hrovat or the like, but he's absolutely integral to our team.

 

[Libba39]

Higgins, if he is going, is going to go as a free agent. Also not enough currency.

Just no to Roughead. I don't need to explain this anymore.

No to Dahlhaus. I really don't need to explain this one.

Minson wouldn't have that much currency, but I wouldn't trade him anyway. Saints already have Longer and Hickey, if they wanted someone like Minson they wouldn't have gotten rid of McEvoy.

All fine but come up with alternatives then, otherwise there is no point having this conversation...

 

[timtamWB]

All fine but come up with alternatives then, otherwise there is no point having this conversation...

We're not going to get pick 1. It is a fantasy. Done and dusted.

To go into a bit more detail, anyone worth enough currency to get an upgrade to pick 1 is too valuable to our team to trade, and we can't package some fringe players with our pick 6ish because quantity =/= quality. Add to this that everyone overrates draft picks. I mean let's look at the past couple of drafts:

2013: Draft pick 1: Boyd. Draft pick 4: Bontempelli. Jury's out, but one looks a LOT better.
2012: Pick 1: Whitfield. Pick 5: Stringer. Jury's out, Stringer looks better though.
2011: Pick 1: Patton. Pick 6: Wingard. Injury makes this a bit hard to judge.
2010: Pick 1: Swallow. 2: Bennell. 8: Heppell. 26: Darling. 41: Libba. etc.

Pick 1 is rarely the best player from the draft. Riewoldt, maybe Cooney, maybe Goddard. Those are the ones from 2000 onwards that have been the best player from their draft. And for the past 2 drafts, we've probably nailed the best player in the draft. So I'd trust the recruiting team to get their man with the draft pick we have.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Pick 5 or 6 won't really matter. What will really matter to Jason Macartney is who we are going to trade to St Kilda for pick 1. For me the only players with trade value not up for grabs are Libba, Bont, Griffen, Hrovat, Macrae, and Wood, and maybe Roberts and Talia.

We are going to need one or two quality players to upgrade to pick one. Quality players, not Grant or Jones as other clubs won't go for them.

I'm thinking of:
Higgins
Roughead
Dahlhaus
Minson

People might criticise these selections but if we want the top pick we have to think seriously about what we need to take the next step.

Higgins - no currency, he's a free agent. I'm not entirely sure he'd have

Roughead - absolutely not - he's the most assured KPP on our list and we're bloody screaming for more.

Dahlhaus - midfield performance has been consistently good, forward efforts in prev. years have been freakish, loves the club and the supporters bloody love him. Close to untouchable, would not be putting him on the table for a pick.

Minson - I'm actually in the camp of being prepared to trade Minson provided we work to acquire someone like Bellchambers with later picks, because Campbell can't ruck out an AFL game on his own and nobody is quite sold on Cordy (I liked his game on the weekend, FWIW).

Hypothetically, if the Saints were to accept 6+Minson for 1 (which they wouldn't for reasons timtamWB outlined), I'd be looking at moving the Higgins compo and a fringe player on for Bellchambers, at the very least. Pogba (I think) is keen on Liam Sumner, but I can't really give an estimate of his worth - I've liked what I've heard, if others could shed more light that'd be great.

I'm not totally sure about Jaksch, but the mail is he's close to nominating us, and he'll come cheaper than we all think. It couldn't hurt to have a dip, particularly when he's spent a fair bit of time at both ends.

We're not going to get pick 1. It is a fantasy. Done and dusted.

To go into a bit more detail, anyone worth enough currency to get an upgrade to pick 1 is too valuable to our team to trade, and we can't package some fringe players with our pick 6ish because quantity =/= quality. Add to this that everyone overrates draft picks. I mean let's look at the past couple of drafts:

2013: Draft pick 1: Boyd. Draft pick 4: Bontempelli. Jury's out, but one looks a LOT better.
2012: Pick 1: Whitfield. Pick 5: Stringer. Jury's out, Stringer looks better though.
2011: Pick 1: Patton. Pick 6: Wingard. Injury makes this a bit hard to judge.
2010: Pick 1: Swallow. 2: Bennell. 8: Heppell. 26: Darling. 41: Libba. etc.

Pick 1 is rarely the best player from the draft. Riewoldt, maybe Cooney, maybe Goddard. Those are the ones from 2000 onwards that have been the best player from their draft. And for the past 2 drafts, we've probably nailed the best player in the draft. So I'd trust the recruiting team to get their man with the draft pick we have.

This is true, and I totally agree with you, but while we've nailed our picks recently, and future 200 gamers always lie in wait on the fringes of the draft, the consensus is that we've got the opportunity to trade up and secure Wright, who fits our biggest need, as opposed to being the best player in the draft (who, all going well, could be Petracca, he's got a lot going for him).

I'd rather we select Lever at 6, look at bringing in some fringe talent at GWS (many of whom will benefit immeasurably from moving to a system where they're not just one of 50 small fish in a big pond - there are fringe players now at GWS who are better than players getting regular games, but they're falling through the cracks), and be clever with our second rounders.

 

[timtamWB]

This is true, and I totally agree with you, but while we've nailed our picks recently, and future 200 gamers always lie in wait on the fringes of the draft, the consensus is that we've got the opportunity to trade up and secure Wright, who fits our biggest need, as opposed to being the best player in the draft (who, all going well, could be Petracca, he's got a lot going for him).

I'd rather we select Lever at 6, look at bringing in some fringe talent at GWS (many of whom will benefit immeasurably from moving to a system where they're not just one of 50 small fish in a big pond - there are fringe players now at GWS who are better than players getting regular games, but they're falling through the cracks), and be clever with our second rounders.

These are the things I miss out on for being negligent in informing myself on the young talent this year. But then again, I didn't want Bonti last year, so what do I know?

Now that I understand what we're doing in regards to pick 1, can you explain to me one thing: How is this any different than last year with Tom Boyd? Everyone was screaming to trade for him, and we didn't because we had nobody with enough currency that we would trade for pick 1, and what's happened? We ended up with Bontempelli.

I don't know or pretend to understand anything in regards to the draft this year, but it's scenarios like last year that makes me confident in the club's decisions.

 

[Dogsman16]

Higgins - no currency, he's a free agent. I'm not entirely sure he'd have

Roughead - absolutely not - he's the most assured KPP on our list and we're bloody screaming for more.

Dahlhaus - midfield performance has been consistently good, forward efforts in prev. years have been freakish, loves the club and the supporters bloody love him. Close to untouchable, would not be putting him on the table for a pick.

Minson - I'm actually in the camp of being prepared to trade Minson provided we work to acquire someone like Bellchambers with later picks, because Campbell can't ruck out an AFL game on his own and nobody is quite sold on Cordy (I liked his game on the weekend, FWIW).

Hypothetically, if the Saints were to accept 6+Minson for 1 (which they wouldn't for reasons timtamWB outlined), I'd be looking at moving the Higgins compo and a fringe player on for Bellchambers, at the very least. Pogba (I think) is keen on Liam Sumner, but I can't really give an estimate of his worth - I've liked what I've heard, if others could shed more light that'd be great.

I'm not totally sure about Jaksch, but the mail is he's close to nominating us, and he'll come cheaper than we all think. It couldn't hurt to have a dip, particularly when he's spent a fair bit of time at both ends.

This is true, and I totally agree with you, but while we've nailed our picks recently, and future 200 gamers always lie in wait on the fringes of the draft, the consensus is that we've got the opportunity to trade up and secure Wright, who fits our biggest need, as opposed to being the best player in the draft (who, all going well, could be Petracca, he's got a lot going for him).

I'd rather we select Lever at 6, look at bringing in some fringe talent at GWS (many of whom will benefit immeasurably from moving to a system where they're not just one of 50 small fish in a big pond - there are fringe players now at GWS who are better than players getting regular games, but they're falling through the cracks), and be clever with our second rounders.

If Roughead is the most assured KPP on the list then we are in big, big trouble.

Agree with the rest of it though I'd look to trade in Frost etc and maybe go one more year through the draft. 2015 trade/FA we just have to come in all guns blazing. I mean look at trading our first rounder and throwing 600k at a Free Agent. I'd almost look now but FA stocks are very thin this year. Higgins will free up even more cap space. I think Hawkins and maybe even tex come out of contract next year. I'd be pushing 900k at Walker especially.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

These are the things I miss out on for being negligent in informing myself on the young talent this year. But then again, I didn't want Bonti last year, so what do I know?

Now that I understand what we're doing in regards to pick 1, can you explain to me one thing: How is this any different than last year with Tom Boyd? Everyone was screaming to trade for him, and we didn't because we had nobody with enough currency that we would trade for pick 1, and what's happened? We ended up with Bontempelli.

I don't know or pretend to understand anything in regards to the draft this year, but it's scenarios like last year that makes me confident in the club's decisions.

Don't worry, I was firmly against selecting Bontempelli last year too. Although, I'd still be pretty happy if we'd gone for Kade Kolodjashnij, who I desperately wanted (Wanted KK at 4, Honeychurch at 42 - thought it was a pipe dream and we got him at freakin 60!).

I'm assured that the club will select a very good player with our first pick in the draft, but I'm not all that sure we'll add the ridiculous top end talent that we have in the last couple of drafts, it just isn't there at our pick. Although, Stringer, Macrae, Wines, Menzel and Mayes went after O'Rourke, Plowman and Toumpas, so what do I know.

All that said, I'd be very happy to have Laverde or Lever on our list, but getting anyone else (unless by some miracle Wright slips) would leave me with a bit of a knot in the guts.

If Roughead is the most assured KPP on the list then we are in big, big trouble.

Agree with the rest of it though I'd look to trade in Frost etc and maybe go one more year through the draft. 2015 trade/FA we just have to come in all guns blazing. I mean look at trading our first rounder and throwing 600k at a Free Agent. I'd almost look now but FA stocks are very thin this year. Higgins will free up even more cap space. I think Hawkins and maybe even tex come out of contract next year. I'd be pushing 900k at Walker especially.

Indeed we are. I'm not knocking Roughie, I think he'll be a terrific player, but it's indisputable that he's ahead of any of our other KPPs at the moment. We'll see how Roberts and Talia progress, and if this is Jones' last kick in the ass, we're in for a bloody treat, I'll tell you what.

I'm not all that sold on Frost, he's been serviceable for Collingwood, but I watch a fair bit of him, and even with him down there, I'd still be having heart palpitations every time a high ball goes into our defensive arc.

Agree that we should be loading up for next year when it comes to throwing around our vast, vast fortune. Vast.

 

[Dogsman16]

Don't worry, I was firmly against selecting Bontempelli last year too. Although, I'd still be pretty happy if we'd gone for Kade Kolodjashnij, who I desperately wanted (Wanted KK at 4, Honeychurch at 42 - thought it was a pipe dream and we got him at freakin 60!).


Indeed we are. I'm not knocking Roughie, I think he'll be a terrific player, but it's indisputable that he's ahead of any of our other KPPs at the moment. We'll see how Roberts and Talia progress, and if this is Jones' last kick in the ass, we're in for a bloody treat, I'll tell you what.

I'm not all that sold on Frost, he's been serviceable for Collingwood, but I watch a fair bit of him, and even with him down there, I'd still be having heart palpitations every time a high ball goes into our defensive arc.

Agree that we should be loading up for next year when it comes to throwing around our vast, vast fortune. Vast.

Think Stringer deserves to be consider a KPP, I know he is 192cm but hes strong and fast enough to offer a huge presence down there so its fair to say that he is ahead. Roughy's speed is just a huge concern for me. KPD's who play in front of their opponent can often get lost and teams know to open the space up for Roughy's opponent to lead into. Its arguably a defenders most important asset and its why Roughy conceeds more goals than any other Number 1 KPD in the game.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Think Stringer deserves to be consider a KPP, I know he is 192cm but hes strong and fast enough to offer a huge presence down there so its fair to say that he is ahead. Roughy's speed is just a huge concern for me. KPD's who play in front of their opponent can often get lost and teams know to open the space up for Roughy's opponent to lead into. Its arguably a defenders most important asset and its why Roughy conceeds more goals than any other Number 1 KPD in the game.

Fair enough.

I don't consider Stringer to be a KPP, but he's in that grey area so I'll give you that one. He's certainly an enormous presence wherever he goes. Love seeing him pick the ball up and just run in a straight line before circling around. Defenders just wither and disappear when he does that.

If only Jones had the same arrogance and drive, I honestly think he'd compete for the Coleman.

 

[Super Hans]

It's so hard to give a value on Sumner. He has played eleven games in three years and is well and truly out of their best team. But GWS will still want something big-ish for him (have fun going onto the GWS board and talking trades, their supporters are really welcoming and modest )

And his stats aren't great, but he doesn't play a stats based game at all.

I think he is worth something similar to Stevens was, but I'd happily trade our second round/Higgins pick for him.

 

[Dogsman16]

Fair enough.

I don't consider Stringer to be a KPP, but he's in that grey area so I'll give you that one. He's certainly an enormous presence wherever he goes. Love seeing him pick the ball up and just run in a straight line before circling around. Defenders just wither and disappear when he does that.

If only Jones had the same arrogance and drive, I honestly think he'd compete for the Coleman.

Difference being Stringer actually has good hands and can catch the ball at the highest point. Jones on the other hand has to chest mark everything. With that in mind despite a 5cm height difference Jake actually takes it more regularly at the highest point than Jones does. Also a KPP doesn't come down to height as much for me but more its a lot to do with strength and body position a trait that Jake is far better at in his 2 year career than Jones is after 6. Its why I will continue to identify Jake as a key forward despite the notion that 192cm isn't small enough or big enough. Leads into better spaces and as several commentators have already noticed he leads smartly and can lose his opponent. Very rarely do we see Jones by himself despite his good athleticism for his height.

Jonesy quite simply doesn't have the football brain nor the sheer will and strength to be a number 1 forward. I can see Jake as the number 1 forward already and wouldn't be moving him away from full forward until we got a player of similar forward ability which currently we just don't have.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Difference being Stringer actually has good hands and can catch the ball at the highest point. Jones on the other hand has to chest mark everything. With that in mind despite a 5cm height difference Jake actually takes it more regularly at the highest point than Jones does. Also a KPP doesn't come down to height as much for me but more its a lot to do with strength and body position a trait that Jake is far better at in his 2 year career than Jones is after 6. Its why I will continue to identify Jake as a key forward despite the notion that 192cm isn't small enough or big enough. Leads into better spaces and as several commentators have already noticed he leads smartly and can lose his opponent. Very rarely do we see Jones by himself despite his good athleticism for his height.

Jonesy quite simply doesn't have the football brain nor the sheer will and strength to be a number 1 forward. I can see Jake as the number 1 forward already and wouldn't be moving him away from full forward until we got a player of similar forward ability which currently we just don't have.

I wasn't suggesting they were similar players by any means, just lamenting the fact that Jones is a very good player, only hindered by the rocks in his head, whereas Stringer is a brilliant brute and he bloody well knows it.

I wouldn't be moving him away from full forward regardless, but I agree with everything you've said. We're brimming with midfield courage and class, I'd be happy to let Stringer do damage on the scoreboard rather than in the middle.

 

[Dogsman16]

I wasn't suggesting they were similar players by any means, just lamenting the fact that Jones is a very good player, only hindered by the rocks in his head, whereas Stringer is a brilliant brute and he bloody well knows it.

I wouldn't be moving him away from full forward regardless, but I agree with everything you've said. We're brimming with midfield courage and class, I'd be happy to let Stringer do damage on the scoreboard rather than in the middle.

Yeah if we could insert some of Jake's football brain into Jonesy's head when the ball is kicked towards him that would be fantastic.

Our midfield has the goods and forward line needs work. If Jake is considered in the future a "third tall" by fans/media/opposition teams whatever and has a similar output as say Jack Gunston, which his early stats do show, then its still a massive win for the club. So dangerous in the forward line irrespective of the height of blokes around him I'd be trying to get as much space around him as possible as the Full Forward because if the ball either is on the lead or on the deck he wins that battle nearly every single time.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Yeah if we could insert some of Jake's football brain into Jonesy's head when the ball is kicked towards him that would be fantastic.

Our midfield has the goods and forward line needs work. If Jake is considered in the future a "third tall" by fans/media/opposition teams whatever and has a similar output as say Jack Gunston, which his early stats do show, then its still a massive win for the club. So dangerous in the forward line irrespective of the height of blokes around him I'd be trying to get as much space around him as possible as the Full Forward because if the ball either is on the lead or on the deck he wins that battle nearly every single time.

The difference between Gunston and Stringer is that when someone steps on Stringer's toe, he'll turn into the Hulk instead of a snivelling baby

Can we organise for this footy brain surgery to actually happen? They probably offer it in Switzerland or Sweden, or some other country that starts with Sw.

 

[Dogsman16]

The difference between Gunston and Stringer is that when someone steps on Stringer's toe, he'll turn into the Hulk instead of a snivelling baby

Can we organise for this footy brain surgery to actually happen? They probably offer it in Switzerland or Sweden, or some other country that starts with Sw.

If we can all chip in we can send both Jonesy and Cooney to get their respective treatments.

Stringer pushing Pyke out of the way (more of a block) in the ruck contest on the weekend) which at best was a 50/50 free kick showed how much of a beast this manchild is.

 

[dogwatch]

The difference between Gunston and Stringer is that when someone steps on Stringer's toe, he'll turn into the Hulk instead of a snivelling baby

Can we organise for this footy brain surgery to actually happen? They probably offer it in Switzerland or Sweden, or some other country that starts with Sw.

Swaziland.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Swaziland.

I think they'll pass on that one. Top holiday destination though.

 

[Igloo]

Thread has turned into List Management mkII, so i'm going to close it now.