ICC Admit DRS decision was wrong in Day Night Test.

[TaylorMade]

So the ICC have acknowledged that the DRS decision involving Lyon was incorrect.

"ICC has reviewed the decision and acknowledged that it was incorrect," it said on Twitter, adding that it had replied to New Zealand Cricket's questioning of the decision. "ICC confirms the umpire followed the correct protocol, but made an incorrect judgement."

The statement above indicates the 3rd ump made the wrong call but have they actually addressed the key issue here? That is the camera wasn't in the right place to pickup the contact between bat and ball when Lyon played his sweep shot?

As an umpire you must give benefit of the doubt - How can you satisfy this criteria if you can't even see the moment where bat is hitting ball?

Watching the decision on TV it was very clear that a shot involving the ball hitting the bat + hotspot would have provided the 3rd ump with evidence to make a clear decision.

Was this a failure on the umps behalf or did the technology not provide the solution that it was meant to?

 

[HalloweenJack]

The technology clearly, IMO, showed a hotspot and an edge. The umpire made a mistake. Unfortunately for NZ that mistake probably cost them the game. Having said that if NZ had of batted another 30 minutes then that may have been enough to win.

 

[BillyBollox]

Plugger's going to be out in force again

 

[Stopher]

The technology clearly, IMO, showed a hotspot and an edge. The umpire made a mistake. Unfortunately for NZ that mistake probably cost them the game. Having said that if NZ had of batted another 30 minutes then that may have been enough to win.

The front-on view at 2:30 looks absolutely like an edge on hotspot. I just can't see how Llong could so casually ignore the mark that appears the instant the ball goes past that part of the bat!!

 

[_007_]

They were wrong and they admitted it. That's what you want. It is the polar opposite to what Wayne Campbell comes out and says/does after every howler in the AFL.

 

[Hellgood]

Embarrasingly bad decision and glad they've acknowledged as such.

 

[KissKiss]

The front-on view at 2:30 looks absolutely like an edge on hotspot. I just can't see how Llong could so casually ignore the mark that appears the instant the ball goes past that part of the bat!!

I could be wrong but I don't remember the front on view being shown at the time. Think it only got played in the coverage later. The ones they played at the time were a little less conclusive

 

[Plugger35]

So where are all the people that were arguing in the match thread that Lyon was not out or that the evidence was inconclusive?

Nice of the ICC to admit that Llong got the DRS decision wrong but that doesn't change the result unlike Llong's horrendous decision.

 

[JackOutback]

I could be wrong but I don't remember the front on view being shown at the time. Think it only got played in the coverage later. The ones they played at the time were a little less conclusive

This. Llong had two contradictory views, a faint hotspot and no snicko. Given the lack of conclusive evidence, he chose to give the batsman the benefit of the doubt and not overrule the on-field umpire. I don't think anyone doubts he was out, particularly after the additional view was given, but I don't think Llong did anything wrong under the circumstances. If people want to complain about why he wasn't given the additional view, fine, but I personally think Llong is copping too much criticism, given the circumstances.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing when you have several days and additional footage in which to consider the situation.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

If that is the case, then it is a bigger issue than Llong's decision if you ask me. Surely the third umpire has access to every camera angle (particularly those with hot spot) available during analysis?

 

[JackOutback]

If that is the case, then it is a bigger issue than Llong's decision if you ask me. Surely the third umpire has access to every camera angle (particularly those with hot spot) available during analysis?

I agree and I think the ICC threw Llong under a bus rather than admit their DRS system was flawed.

 

[KissKiss]

If that is the case, then it is a bigger issue than Llong's decision if you ask me. Surely the third umpire has access to every camera angle (particularly those with hot spot) available during analysis?

Although people are already complaining the system takes too long. Adding more camera angles means it will take even longer. Especially if for each one they are going to view it normal speed, slow mo, zoomed in, with snicko, with snicko zoomed in, with snicko at different speeds, with hotspot and all of the variables from before

 

[eddiesmith]

The biggest thing against snicko is it picked up nothing on that ball, not even the ball hitting the shoulder, useless technology

 

[Stopher]

The frustrating thing is that the information was available (in this case, the front-on view) that would've changed that decision and potentially the result of the match.

Somehow, some way it hasn't been utilized properly to allow the correct decision to be made. It's just not good enough and you'd hope the entire process is reviewed after this farce showed a massive hole in the process.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Did Llong ask for front on Hot-Spot at any stage during the entire series?

I vaguely remember one of the arguments against Hot-Spot was the cost, and that some countries only used side on camera on one side of the ground. Perhaps he wasn't aware there was a front-on camera?

 

[Jimthegreat]

So where are all the people that were arguing in the match thread that Lyon was not out or that the evidence was inconclusive?

Nice of the ICC to admit that Llong got the DRS decision wrong but that doesn't change the result unlike Llong's horrendous decision.

The best bit will be hearing you whinge, whinge, whinge. Loser...2-0!!!!!!

When Real time Snicko come in, Hotspot was nearly dropped from the Ashes in 2013 as it was considered unreliable. ICC didn't even consider Hotspot necessary once Snicko come in. It sometimes shows nothing after a player has smashed the ball, other times it shows reflection and flares. Williamson smashed one later on, nothing on hotspot, big spike on Snicko. Snicko is still considered by the ICC and others to be more reliable and given it found nothing there still has to be doubt whether Lyon hit it or not despite the procedure of the ICC.

 

[Plugger35]

The best bit will be hearing you whinge, whinge, whinge. Loser...2-0!!!!!!

When Real time Snicko come in, Hotspot was nearly dropped from the Ashes in 2013 as it was considered unreliable. ICC didn't even consider Hotspot necessary once Snicko come in. It sometimes shows nothing after a player has smashed the ball, other times it shows reflection and flares. Williamson smashed one later on, nothing on hotspot, big spike on Snicko. Snicko is still considered by the ICC and others to be more reliable and given it found nothing there still has to be doubt whether Lyon hit it or not despite the procedure of the ICC.

Yeah apart from the obvious deflection off the bat and the fact that Lyon was walking off, it wasn't just hotspot indicating that he was out.

Snicko isn't that reliable, it didn't show anything with the ball hitting Lyon's shoulder either but apparently that still overrules all the other evidence according to Llong and other clueless numpties.

 

[the_interloper]

Yeah apart from the obvious deflection off the bat and the fact that Lyon was walking off, it wasn't just hotspot indicating that he was out.

Snicko isn't that reliable, it didn't show anything with the ball hitting Lyon's shoulder either but apparently that still overrules all the other evidence according to Llong and other clueless numpties.

Umpire conspiracy?

 

[JackOutback]

Yeah apart from the obvious deflection off the bat and the fact that Lyon was walking off, it wasn't just hotspot indicating that he was out.

Snicko isn't that reliable, it didn't show anything with the ball hitting Lyon's shoulder either but apparently that still overrules all the other evidence according to Llong and other clueless numpties.

People always complain about the technology that works against them. Hotspot isn't infallible either and I was under the impression more stock was put in snicko than hotspot.

It was a mistake but not the conspiracy you think it was.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

I'm curious about what the formal protocols are for the 3rd umpire to make a decision.

You have RTS saying Lyon didn't hit it. You have hotspot saying he probably did hit it, but the lack of footage at the best angle makes slightly unclear. If the third umpires have been directed that the evidence must be beyond reasonable doubt in order to overrule the on-field umpire, then Llong was probably correct. But if umpires have been directed to simply balance the probabilities, then Llong was wrong.

So the ICC have come out and said that Llong made a mistake, but they haven't really said why? Dave Richardson basically said that Llong followed the correct process, but made the wrong call. I find that really hard to believe. Llong is on the elite panel, meaning he's one of the best umpires in the world... with experience in more than a hundred international matches. Even the best umpires can make a mistake in the heat of the moment, out on the field. But it seems very strange that an experienced, elite umpire, with all the technology available to him, and 5 minutes to make the call, following the correct process would still get it wrong.

So either Nigel Llong had an epic brain fart under pressure... or the ICC are basically full of crap.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I'm curious about what the formal protocols are for the 3rd umpire to make a decision.

You have RTS saying Lyon didn't hit it. You have hotspot saying he probably did hit it, but the lack of footage at the best angle makes slightly unclear. If the third umpires have been directed that the evidence must be beyond reasonable doubt in order to overrule the on-field umpire, then Llong was probably correct. But if umpires have been directed to simply balance the probabilities, then Llong was wrong.

So the ICC have come out and said that Llong made a mistake, but they haven't really said why? Dave Richardson basically said that Llong followed the correct process, but made the wrong call. I find that really hard to believe. Llong is on the elite panel, meaning he's one of the best umpires in the world... with experience in more than a hundred international matches. Even the best umpires can make a mistake in the heat of the moment, out on the field. But it seems very strange that an experienced, elite umpire, with all the technology available to him, and 5 minutes to make the call, following the correct process would still get it wrong.

So either Nigel Llong had an epic brain fart under pressure... or the ICC are basically full of crap.

Great post, good to see there is still someone out there who can think for themselves. Nigel Llong MAY have made the incorrect decision in terms of what actually happened, but based on the information available to him, he made the correct decision. All of these "obvious" signs weren't really all that obvious. He was offered no evidence that contact between bat and ball actually took place. He acknowledged there was a flash on the bat in hotspot, but was looking for a reason why that flash appeared. He couldn't find one. Assuming the ball hit the bat is not a good enough reason to give it out.

They were showing a side on shot where commentators were saying there was an obvious deflection, but the bottom half of the bat was out of frame. The front on footage was of a different delivery entirely, so that told us nothing. People crapping on about Lyon being half way off the ground is bogus because umpire Llong wasn't privy to this either. They didn't show the front on shot where the deflection WAS obvious.

Quite simply, Llong made the correct decision based on the evidence put before him. It is the DRS system that is at fault here, and I'd like them to shelve it indefinitely until technology is able to meet with demands and expectations.

 

[to1994]

People are making it out like Lyon walked off the ground immediately. Watch the replay again and you'll see he looks confused when he was given out and only walked off when he saw hotspot as he assumed that's all it took.

Either way it's ridiculous to use him walking off as something Llong should've taken into consideration when making the call.

 

[JackOutback]

I'm curious about what the formal protocols are for the 3rd umpire to make a decision.

You have RTS saying Lyon didn't hit it. You have hotspot saying he probably did hit it, but the lack of footage at the best angle makes slightly unclear. If the third umpires have been directed that the evidence must be beyond reasonable doubt in order to overrule the on-field umpire, then Llong was probably correct. But if umpires have been directed to simply balance the probabilities, then Llong was wrong.

So the ICC have come out and said that Llong made a mistake, but they haven't really said why? Dave Richardson basically said that Llong followed the correct process, but made the wrong call. I find that really hard to believe. Llong is on the elite panel, meaning he's one of the best umpires in the world... with experience in more than a hundred international matches. Even the best umpires can make a mistake in the heat of the moment, out on the field. But it seems very strange that an experienced, elite umpire, with all the technology available to him, and 5 minutes to make the call, following the correct process would still get it wrong.

So either Nigel Llong had an epic brain fart under pressure... or the ICC are basically full of crap.

The ICC are full of crap.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

The ICC are full of crap.

Given their poor track record, it seems the most likely explanation.

The problem is that if Llong comes out and says anything contradictory to the ICC, he can basically kiss his career goodbye. If he's smart, he'll shut his mouth and wear it on the chin.

The end result is that the fans never get an explanation why millions of dollars worth of equipment, and an elite panel of umpires still can't get us the correct calls.

The ICC has form in this regard, with the way they hung Darrell Hair out to dry.

 

[GROTTO]

Can the match referee overrule a decision on DRS? Or rather the question should be should the match referee have the capacity to do so?