Analysis If Griff holds his spot who is our starting Ruckman in the VFL

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Horses for courses in terms of the big man setup. 3 can and will work just fine against certain opposition and won't work against others. If it's a game where we can only play 2 then it would be Maric (unless he needs a rest) and whoever is in better form out of Griff/TV. To be honest though, I think we look a little small when they drop the loose man back (or we just bomb it to outnumbered forwards too much), so I would prefer to see us use 3 talls in a clever mobile way. Griff is certainly mobile and TV looks mobile when up the ground at times....though mechanical at other times....

Another developing ruck is not bad option though Rusty.... need to replace Hampson at the end of 2016 (at the latest) and Ivvy might not be at his best after another 3 years of bashing and crashing.... Do you have any ruck prospects in mind?
 

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Livonski said:
Excellent rusty. Good to see you point out the reason for 3-10 was Maric, and not some mythical change in game plan that other clowns keep crapping on about.
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Don't forget Dimma said Rance was out for 7 weeks and that really hurt us as well. Can you please explain to me how we are going to develop our ruck stocks next year when you have time Livo ?
 
How about we call Ivan Saldo.... Mini me (I know he's bigger than Ivvy) , or Ivan 2.0, Ivan MK II , ???
 
The Rusty Trombone said:
3 and 10 with Maric out , 9 straight with him in I certainly care
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His being out certainly had an impact Rusty but are you saying His being out was the majority cause ? Because if I recall there was a number of players out at the time. But I agree we do need to look closely at our ruck stocks. I'm also not convinced we are making the most of Ty's & Griffs weopons either. I think they both have potentially huge upsides both in attack & defensive outlets...
 
To me if Griff and TV use their athleticism and skills to the full they can play with Jack. But they have to get on their bikes and run from defence to attack, lead long and hard and act as extra mids when the opportunity is there. TV especially acts like an old fashioned stay at home FF too much. His greatest weapon is the combination of his speed and height. He rarely uses it. I reckon it would give teams nightmares if they had to plan for a TV/Griff combo running the lines constantly - being weapons from deep forward to the half back line as link up players. They are also good cut out rucks. I would like to see both, especially TV, being trained up and played as a running ruck rover type at times. We've tried to play a three pronged marking forward set up. Which is OK, but doesn't play to the strengths of the actual players. All can mark, but use the size and speed.

Then in the VFL we push Hampson as first ruck, with Ivan II learning the ropes. I actually don't care if Ivan Soldo is a bit out of of place at first. He should learn a lot playing at a good level (VFL). Use Hampson to protect and mentor him as a ruck. Ivan I as his role model as a player. Try to fast track his development. Elton as backup.
 
TJTIGER said:
His being out certainly had an impact Rusty but are you saying His being out was the majority cause ? Because if I recall there was a number of players out at the time. But I agree we do need to look closely at our ruck stocks. I'm also not convinced we are making the most of Ty's & Griffs weopons either. I think they both have potentially huge upsides both in attack & defensive outlets...
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I didn't put it down as a main cause the change of game plan didn't help but it certainly hurt us bad. Hampson has proved his whole career that he's not the answer so what's our back up plan.
 
Dr Tigris said:
To me if Griff and TV use their athleticism and skills to the full they can play with Jack. But they have to get on their bikes and run from defence to attack, lead long and hard and act as extra mids when the opportunity is there. TV especially acts like an old fashioned stay at home FF too much. His greatest weapon is the combination of his speed and height. He rarely uses it. I reckon it would give teams nightmares if they had to plan for a TV/Griff combo running the lines constantly - being weapons from deep forward to the half back line as link up players. They are also good cut out rucks. I would like to see both, especially TV, being trained up and played as a running ruck rover type at times. We've tried to play a three pronged marking forward set up. Which is OK, but doesn't play to the strengths of the actual players. All can mark, but use the size and speed.
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I think its only Griffiths that needs to be more mobile, playing a true CHF role now that he's getting his feel for the game. Vickery should play a higher % of game time in the ruck and rotate forward with Maric, both of them when forward playing as a tall forward pocket like Spida Everett used to do. This leaves Jack to play his best FF role.
 

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The Rusty Trombone said:
Seriously though , Vickery simply has to play full time in the ruck to insure us if Maric has an injury . We can repeat what happened last year that would be madness.
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I think you can forget about Vickery as a full time ruckman. He is useless as a center square ruck.
I have watched him closely...he watches his opponent, jumps into him, then looks up for the ball...if he manages to get first hands, he cant really put it to any great advantage, coz his attention has been on his opponent, and not where our midfielders are.
Our last ruckman that worked like that was big Angus.
Have a look at any footage you can find.
Vickery is much better at boundry throws ins...he likes to wrestle and run in with his opponent.
so...a handy back up ruck/chop out ruck...and thats it for him (as a ruckman)
 
Tigerballz said:
I think you can forget about Vickery as a full time ruckman. He is useless as a center square ruck.
I have watched him closely...he watches his opponent, jumps into him, then looks up for the ball...if he manages to get first hands, he cant really put it to any great advantage, coz his attention has been on his opponent, and not where our midfielders are.
Our last ruckman that worked like that was big Angus.
Have a look at any footage you can find.
Vickery is much better at boundry throws ins...he likes to wrestle and run in with his opponent.
so...a handy back up ruck/chop out ruck...and thats it for him (as a ruckman)
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Ok so now we are getting somewhere , Vickery needs to improve to be able to cover for Maric if he has a long term injury so do we play him starting ruckman in the VFL to achieve this or do we let Hampson masquerade as a footballer for another season ? It looks like we'll need to grab Baulserstone with our last pick and play him there but no where do we play young Saldo as Hampson would officially be our most expensive VFL forward pocket?
 
partycorolla said:
Horses for courses in terms of the big man setup. 3 can and will work just fine against certain opposition and won't work against others. If it's a game where we can only play 2 then it would be Maric (unless he needs a rest) and whoever is in better form out of Griff/TV. To be honest though, I think we look a little small when they drop the loose man back (or we just bomb it to outnumbered forwards too much), so I would prefer to see us use 3 talls in a clever mobile way. Griff is certainly mobile and TV looks mobile when up the ground at times....though mechanical at other times....

Another developing ruck is not bad option though Rusty.... need to replace Hampson at the end of 2016 (at the latest) and Ivvy might not be at his best after another 3 years of bashing and crashing.... Do you have any ruck prospects in mind?
Click to expand...
Sorry for the late reply I just wanted to wait till I got my copy of Inside Footy Draft Edition but Baulderstone from Norwood looks like the best insurance if we are looking to be top 4 this year. He'll take that possie in the VFL and improve as the year goes on.
 
The Rusty Trombone said:
Ok so now we are getting somewhere , Vickery needs to improve to be able to cover for Maric if he has a long term injury so do we play him starting ruckman in the VFL to achieve this or do we let Hampson masquerade as a footballer for another season ? It looks like we'll need to grab Baulserstone with our last pick and play him there but no where do we play young Saldo as Hampson would officially be our most expensive VFL forward pocket?
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I like the way you spell the back up Rucks name Rusty. Could you imagine the grog squad chant? Balls-r-stone or balls-of-stone. I'd take him for the name alone.....On a more serious note. I wouldn't mind an insurance ruck , but is it more value to the team? because I agree with the comments re TV's not performing in center square bounces. But are our picks better used for other types. I'M not sure, just asking though, for discussion sake....
 
its an interesting one...Maric is by far our best ruckman. As far as all the rucks in the league, I spose Maric sits somewhere in the middle, not the best, but nowhere near the worst....he's a competetive beast, and holds his own against the very best, gives us heaps around the ground, smart in positioning, uses the ball well, has a mullet.
Hampson is the best tap ruckman we have, but just doesnt give us much around the ground..i mean, he can crash a pack, take a mark, go forward and kick a goal...but then just as likely not to, and decision making can be poor.
I still hold out hope that he'll switch on, get confident and show something, as he didnt grow up playing footy, and was a project player...but i doubt thats gunna happen..oh well.
Vickery is a handy back up ruck, Griff is a handy back up ruck...dunno what McBean will give us, may be to light, may be a handy back up. forget Saldo for a few yrs.
So yeah...for the time being, we can cover the ruck posi quite well, plenty of options...but we really need to see a quality 1st ruck, either getting drafted/developed...or targeting a poach, for the near future (3-4 yrs maybe)
 
Tigerballz said:
its an interesting one...Maric is by far our best ruckman. As far as all the rucks in the league, I spose Maric sits somewhere in the middle, not the best, but nowhere near the worst....he's a competetive beast, and holds his own against the very best, gives us heaps around the ground, smart in positioning, uses the ball well, has a mullet.
Hampson is the best tap ruckman we have, but just doesnt give us much around the ground..i mean, he can crash a pack, take a mark, go forward and kick a goal...but then just as likely not to, and decision making can be poor.
I still hold out hope that he'll switch on, get confident and show something, as he didnt grow up playing footy, and was a project player...but i doubt thats gunna happen..oh well.
Vickery is a handy back up ruck, Griff is a handy back up ruck...dunno what McBean will give us, may be to light, may be a handy back up. forget Saldo for a few yrs.
So yeah...for the time being, we can cover the ruck posi quite well, plenty of options...but we really need to see a quality 1st ruck, either getting drafted/developed...or targeting a poach, for the near future (3-4 yrs maybe)
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Wouldn't it be better to have someone putting pressure on Maric for his spot to take him from roughly 5th best ruckman in the league to 1st? Why are we gonna coast with this set up?
 
TJTIGER said:
I like the way you spell the back up Rucks name Rusty. Could you imagine the grog squad chant? Balls-r-stone or balls-of-stone. I'd take him for the name alone.....On a more serious note. I wouldn't mind an insurance ruck , but is it more value to the team? because I agree with the comments re TV's not performing in center square bounces. But are our picks better used for other types. I'M not sure, just asking though, for discussion sake....
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We need to attract the best ruckman ready to go and put him on the list proper, we can't rinse repeat what happened last year it was nonsense on stilts so yes we need to invest in a ruck just as much as we do more outside speed .
 
The Rusty Trombone said:
Sorry for the late reply I just wanted to wait till I got my copy of Inside Footy Draft Edition but Baulderstone from Norwood looks like the best insurance if we are looking to be top 4 this year. He'll take that possie in the VFL and improve as the year goes on.
Click to expand...

Sounds good. How late can we pick him up? Or will he last until PSD?
 
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