List Mgmt. If GWS Snaffle up Laverde with pick 4 then who do we take?

[sr36]

Keeffe, Marsh and Gault say hi.

The was also have guys like Cloke, Reid, White, Brown and Goldsack on our team and Grundy and Witts can pinch hit forward.

Keeffe isn't young. Gault is about as speculative as it comes. I missed Marsh.. It's not a great batch of young talented KPPs. It could do with some boosting. With the experienced guys we have, we don't need an immediate boost in talls, but you draft talls for 3 or 4 years down the track - which is when some of our experienced guys may be on the way out - with their susceptibility to injuries, I don't see Reid and Brown having particularly long careers. White is ordinary and Goldsack isn't a KPP. I see a need for KPPs to be brought in over the next couple of years.

 

[sr36]

Laverde certainly in the short term I see more as a flanker - that's really where he has played his football to this point.

Pendlebury is the comparison everyone will make but I'm trying to go away from comparing players to guys who are among the top few in the game.

Crameri isn't evasive like Laverde but Laverde has that Crameri in the front half feeling of being too quick, too strong 1v1 and too dominant which is who he is, though with the additional evasiveness.

Laverde has the scope to make the switch into the midfield but that will likely take time - as we'd say of Langdon who at the moment is more a natural back flanker for now.

--
Weller doesn't have too many major problems as a pretty well rounded footballer. He is sufficient but not dominant inside mostly due to a light body - though he can at times hit packs at speed which is promising. Overhead he can drop some marks he shouldn't. Best position unclear? He can in many ways be compared to Aish, but not quite on that same level.

Laverde sounds like a taller, stronger Daisy Thomas. Would that be fair?

 

[mike123]

Keeffe isn't young. Gault is about as speculative as it comes. I missed Marsh.. It's not a great batch of young talented KPPs. It could do with some boosting. With the experienced guys we have, we don't need an immediate boost in talls, but you draft talls for 3 or 4 years down the track - which is when some of our experienced guys may be on the way out - with their susceptibility to injuries, I don't see Reid and Brown having particularly long careers. White is ordinary and Goldsack isn't a KPP. I see a need for KPPs to be brought in over the next couple of years.

Keeffe isn't old either. We have depth in the KP area.

 

[sr36]

Keeffe isn't old either. We have depth in the KP area.

You're probably right. I've just looked up their ages and Reid and Brown are younger than I thought. In terms of age, Brown, Keeffe and Reid are all mid career and may have 5 or 6 good years left in them. Trav may have 4 or 5. If these guys can get and keep their bodies right, we are set, especially when you add in Frost, Marsh, Moore and a couple of exciting young rucks.

Bring on Weller.

 

[Knightmare]

Laverde sounds like a taller, stronger Daisy Thomas. Would that be fair?

Different again to Daisy. Daisy was a pressuring freak, high leaping, linebreaker.

Laverde is more a tall, evasive, explosive, powerful, classy type.

Different games.

Laverde of recent Collingwood players is more like a taller Broomhead if you're after a Collingwood comparison.

 

[Kappa]

You're probably right. I've just looked up their ages and Reid and Brown are younger than I thought. In terms of age, Brown, Keeffe and Reid are all mid career and may have 5 or 6 good years left in them. Trav may have 4 or 5. If these guys can get and keep their bodies right, we are set, especially when you add in Frost, Marsh, Moore and a couple of exciting young rucks.

Bring on Weller.

Nathan Brown does not have 5 or 6 years left

He is one more serious knee or shoulder injury from retirement

 

[suspect footskills]

I'm not very impressed by the constant reminders of McCartin's height, or lack thereof in the opinions of some posters. Same goes with Keitel. I'd much prefer a smart, 193-4cm forward who leads at the ball and marks it at eye level cos his opponent is a metre or two behind. This talk of taking the ball at its highest point is overrated in my opinion.
Look at Rough, 194/5cm at most but an absolute gun. Fevola wasn't super tall nor was Matty Lloyd but their ability to lead at the ball and take it cleanly due to outsmarting defenders let them kick bag after bag. IMO, Reece MacKenzie may be the best of the talls out of this draft as he has both the abty to accelerate at ridiculous speed for his size and lead at the ball but can also stand and take a contested grab. Height is really overrated in forwards IMO, game smarts, being able to clunk a mark in contests or on the lead and a straight kick are the most important traits IMO. Rough gives up almost 2inches to Tippett but I'd have him any day of the week. Pavlich is the same, barely taller than Pendles but his reading of the ball and game smarts put him in the elite category. Height is overrated in forwards, taller, goal kicking mids mids are becoming where it's at.

 

[Knightmare]

I'm not very impressed by the constant reminders of McCartin's height, or lack thereof in the opinions of some posters. Same goes with Keitel. I'd much prefer a smart, 193-4cm forward who leads at the ball and marks it at eye level cos his opponent is a metre or two behind. This talk of taking the ball at its highest point is overrated in my opinion.
Look at Rough, 194/5cm at most but an absolute gun. Fevola wasn't super tall nor was Matty Lloyd but their ability to lead at the ball and take it cleanly due to outsmarting defenders let them kick bag after bag. IMO, Reece MacKenzie may be the best of the talls out of this draft as he has both the abty to accelerate at ridiculous speed for his size and lead at the ball but can also stand and take a contested grab. Height is really overrated in forwards IMO, game smarts, being able to clunk a mark in contests or on the lead and a straight kick are the most important traits IMO. Rough gives up almost 2inches to Tippett but I'd have him any day of the week. Pavlich is the same, barely taller than Pendles but his reading of the ball and game smarts put him in the elite category. Height is overrated in forwards, taller, goal kicking mids mids are becoming where it's at.

With McCartin in that Paine kinda way he looks like he's 190cm more so than 194cm.

I'm pro McCartin and if there he is my pick, he is just the best talent and most dominant talent there, but my concern is more his conditioning and whether he can get into AFL condition (less effort/diet related by more health related given he has the right diet/work ethic).

Love McKenzie also. If he can be had at 30. Wow. The guy was bigtime and from July onward when played permanent forward and the only guy who beat him in that time was Hugh Beasley who is the best stopper in the TAC. I just love McKenzie's rate of improvement and over the season and while he is a monster size-wise, with time there is more than enough there for him to be terrific at the next level.

 

[peter9789]

I've got a draft board of
1. Petracca
2. Brayshaw
3. Heeney - Syd academy
4. Moore
5. McCartin (probably the most realistic hope of that top group and if Melb and GWS fall in love with Wright/Lever)
-- next group --
6. Wright
7. Laverde
8. Lever
and so on..

McCartin is a short looking key forward and more a deep forward but exceptionally dominant and has close to goal anyway more tricks than Wright with his ability below the knees and overhead both stronger as well as more dominant ability to hit the scoreboard.

Even failing McCartin, Wright would be a strong get. Wright learning off Cloke, as a 203cm, 102kg guy who is a terrific athlete at his size with his acceleration and endurance. That would be interesting viewing. Wright has clean hands overhead, he can at times drop it v contact which is the major knock, but get Cloke and Rocca as a development coach to teach him how to take his hands overhead from clean to clunking it and he has the ability to be the best in the draft.

KM I have have been reliably informed by someone well placed at the Melbourne FC that they will select

• McCartin at Pick 2
• Brayshaw at Pick 3.

They believe that the Saints have locked onto Petracca at pick 1. In this case I see GWS taking Laverde at pick 4 more for strategic reasons as they know he would not slip past the PIES. This would then see us take presumably Wright at pick 5. Personally I'm ok with this as quality talls are hard to come by and feel if Wright can develop his game then we have an excellent forward set up. My only question would be can he play just as a dominant forward type given our ruck depth with Grundy / Witts?

Personally I am excited by having Moore / Wright come in this year as both appear to be high quality.

 

[SugarCoat]

When Moore is up and going you could hypothetically play Wright in the ruck & Moore playing as a ruck / rover.
He is that agile.
Not putting a lot of pressure on Moore, but a few recruiters have said he moves over the ground better than Nic Nat.

 

[suspect footskills]

With McCartin in that Paine kinda way he looks like he's 190cm more so than 194cm.

I'm pro McCartin and if there he is my pick, he is just the best talent and most dominant talent there, but my concern is more his conditioning and whether he can get into AFL condition (less effort/diet related by more health related given he has the right diet/work ethic).

Love McKenzie also. If he can be had at 30. Wow. The guy was bigtime and from July onward when played permanent forward and the only guy who beat him in that time was Hugh Beasley who is the best stopper in the TAC. I just love McKenzie's rate of improvement and over the season and while he is a monster size-wise, with time there is more than enough there for him to be terrific at the next level.

McKenzie won't be there at 30 unfortunately. It'd take a miracle for that to happen. With his pedigree, marking ability, size, height and his ridiculous speed over 20metres there's very little chance he'll be there even at #20. Would love to have him though, so much upside.
I see where you're coming from re: McCartin and can't say I know better than you as I definitely don't. I was more making reference to the fact that around these boards I think there's a lot of posters who overvalue size in KPP's. I place more value on the overall package and think that guys like Roughy are proof that you don't have to be 197-200cm to play KPF although it is apparent that kids are getting taller and taller and in future, 193/4cm probably won't cut it anymore.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Our KP stocks are getting on the older side now. Cloke is 28 next year and Reid will be 26. They are our only KPF types right now and we need 3 years development into the next generation which means taking KP stock now. We can't rely on getting KPF's through FA, that's a lottery.

The other thing to say is that if we have an oversupply of talls, those players will always get a better trade return than a mid of comparable quality because talls aren't that easy to come by. We could quickly bring in a quality mid or pocket player with a trade.

Lever I reckon has a Jeremy Cameron type look about him.

Wouldn't be disappointed with Lever. Scharenberg and Lever down back could set up a premiership defence which I regard as the most important position to win the flag. Sets up everything.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Our KP stocks are getting on the older side now. Cloke is 28 next year and Reid will be 26. They are our only KPF types right now and we need 3 years development into the next generation which means taking KP stock now. We can't rely on getting KPF's through FA, that's a lottery.

The other thing to say is that if we have an oversupply of talls, those players will always get a better trade return than a mid of comparable quality because talls aren't that easy to come by. We could quickly bring in a quality mid or pocket player with a trade.

Lever I reckon has a Jeremy Cameron type look about him.

Wouldn't be disappointed with Lever. Scharenberg and Lever down back could set up a premiership defence which I regard as the most important position to win the flag. Sets up everything.

 

[mike123]

Wouldn't be disappointed with Lever. Scharenberg and Lever down back could set up a premiership defence which I regard as the most important position to win the flag. Sets up everything.

Yeah, they make a strong combination on the injury list.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Yeah, they make a strong combination on the injury list.

Well I wouldn't be writing off Scharenberg.

 

[mike123]

Well I wouldn't be writing off Scharenberg.

I'm not, that's why I don't think we need Lever.

 

[neilk]

I'm not very impressed by the constant reminders of McCartin's height, or lack thereof in the opinions of some posters. Same goes with Keitel. I'd much prefer a smart, 193-4cm forward who leads at the ball and marks it at eye level cos his opponent is a metre or two behind. This talk of taking the ball at its highest point is overrated in my opinion.
Look at Rough, 194/5cm at most but an absolute gun. Fevola wasn't super tall nor was Matty Lloyd but their ability to lead at the ball and take it cleanly due to outsmarting defenders let them kick bag after bag. IMO, Reece MacKenzie may be the best of the talls out of this draft as he has both the abty to accelerate at ridiculous speed for his size and lead at the ball but can also stand and take a contested grab. Height is really overrated in forwards IMO, game smarts, being able to clunk a mark in contests or on the lead and a straight kick are the most important traits IMO. Rough gives up almost 2inches to Tippett but I'd have him any day of the week. Pavlich is the same, barely taller than Pendles but his reading of the ball and game smarts put him in the elite category. Height is overrated in forwards, taller, goal kicking mids mids are becoming where it's at.

I was amazed that you mentioned how tall Roughie was. I could have sworn he was closer to 200cm but according to the website he is actually 193cm. It certainly doesn't affect his ability to mark the ball and kick goals, and even occasionally pinch-hit in the ruck.

 

[mike123]

Yeah, but Rough is 193cm who looks like he's bigger. McCartin is 193cm who looks like he's smaller.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I'm not, that's why I don't think we need Lever.

Reid mr glass was taken out.

Keeffe spud.
Brown ordinary

Those two will be a Collingwood 2 more years at most.

 

[suspect footskills]

I was amazed that you mentioned how tall Roughie was. I could have sworn he was closer to 200cm but according to the website he is actually 193cm. It certainly doesn't affect his ability to mark the ball and kick goals, and even occasionally pinch-hit in the ruck.

He's a freak. That the Hawks managed to land both him and Franklin in the one draft was ridiculous luck. That they wanted Tambling but "missed out" on him and had to take Franklin is the biggest drafting bullet dodge ever and may stay that way.
I also thought Rough was a lot taller until a couple of years ago when he started playing in the midfield a bit and had to check his height. I think body shape and posture makes judging KPP's sizes hard at times. I know this may sound ridiculous but Rough may end up being adjudged better than Franklin by the end of his career. Not as flashy but truly flexible and a big team player as well. He's also got a better finals record. He's highly rated by many but goes under the radar a bit so still underrated IMO, he's a gun, an absolute gun.

 

[mike123]

Reid mr glass was taken out.

Keeffe spud.
Brown ordinary

Those two will be a Collingwood 2 more years at most.

Keeffe is not a spud.

 

[Bard]

He's a freak. That the Hawks managed to land both him and Franklin in the one draft was ridiculous luck. That they wanted Tambling but "missed out" on him and had to take Franklin is the biggest drafting bullet dodge ever and may stay that way.
I also thought Rough was a lot taller until a couple of years ago when he started playing in the midfield a bit and had to check his height. I think body shape and posture makes judging KPP's sizes hard at times. I know this may sound ridiculous but Rough may end up being adjudged better than Franklin by the end of his career. Not as flashy but truly flexible and a big team player as well. He's also got a better finals record. He's highly rated by many but goes under the radar a bit so still underrated IMO, he's a gun, an absolute gun.

What. Are you serious?

I don't know, I personally think Roughead is overrated, and will continue to be purely on the back of winning a Coleman medal. He's a good player sure, but not even in the same league as Franklin, who has been the best KPF this century, and no one over 21 has a chance of taking that mantle off him. In fact only Cameron and maybe Daniher (can't judge Boyd atm) are the ones who could possibly have better careers at the moment IMO.

 

[mike123]

He's a freak. That the Hawks managed to land both him and Franklin in the one draft was ridiculous luck. That they wanted Tambling but "missed out" on him and had to take Franklin is the biggest drafting bullet dodge ever and may stay that way.
I also thought Rough was a lot taller until a couple of years ago when he started playing in the midfield a bit and had to check his height. I think body shape and posture makes judging KPP's sizes hard at times. I know this may sound ridiculous but Rough may end up being adjudged better than Franklin by the end of his career. Not as flashy but truly flexible and a big team player as well. He's also got a better finals record. He's highly rated by many but goes under the radar a bit so still underrated IMO, he's a gun, an absolute gun.

This year was Roughead's first good finals series.

 

[suspect footskills]

This year was Roughead's first good finals series.

Franklin's best too. Maybe we can judge more evenly now they aren't in the same forward line.

 

[Robroy22]

Laverde sounds like a taller, stronger Daisy Thomas. Would that be fair?

Laverde's a taller Wingard type. Can do anything and 15 of HIS possessions are worth gold.