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Discussion in 'Drafts, Trading & Free Agency' started by davidantonowicz, May 4, 2012.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner, but...
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The fact that nothing is either absolutely one way, or absolutely the other, seems utterly lost on so many here. This point's being missed either genuinely, or, I fear, intentionally.
Simplistic superficiality and unsubtle sniping rule the day.
I have reasons for thinking Jack Watts is weak, soft and uncommitted. Thats because he is.
Look at these stats
5.4 contested possessions a game. 1.8 "one percenters" a game. 0.9 contested marks. 1.7 tackles.
Lets compare to, say, Jake Carslile of Essendon, taken in the same draft.
5.5 contested possessions a game. 4.4 "one percenters". 2.0 contested marks. 2.2 tackles.
Nathan Fyfe of Freo
10.1 contested possessions. 2.0 "one percenters". 1.5 contested marks. 3.7 tackles.
Jack Watts - a soft player who wont tackle or so the hard things. The very essence of a downhill skier. A man who goes missing when it gets hard.
And *thats* why I dont want him at GWS, not even for a seventh round pick.
I wouldn't say Watts has been in "good form".
His numbers look good on the stats sheet....he gets his 15 possies and 6 marks a game. But if last week was any indication, he gets pretty much all of them as "over here, over here" outside cheapies. His disposal IS very good once he has it, and his numbers look okay on paper, so perhaps that makes people think he's been better than what he actually is.
When he needed to go for the contested ball or into a pack mark last week, well.....let's just say that several times he didn't exactly go with 100% commitment and enthusiasm.....
He's an idiot, alright.
The kid has a lot of talent. He played quite well against Essendon last year. If he was traded he would be worth a lot despite what people say. He is worth alot more than Dawes FFS
Once you establish a soft culture, a culture that says talent alone is enough, it takes years of brutal work to root it out.
Melbourne have that culture, and a soft-possession forward of a key position forward in Jack Watts is an essential part of it.
As I've said, I wouldnt have him at my club for nothing.
McIntosh pushed Goldstein out.
Who's pushed Watts out?
Valid point though. Except I think Melbourne supporters should stop being so defensive and just accept he hasn't been up to scratch so far. It's not the end of the world. Petrie was pretty average for a very long time, wasn't until 2007 when he stepped up.
While I'm aware that, in your world, a player is either 18 or 33 - you seem to be claiming that Jack Watts is an integral part of a 'culture problems' that has only actually come about in the last few years. Yes, there was a time before 2007 that the likes of Robbie Flower, Jim Stynes, Todd Viney, David Neitz and Garry Lyon donned our jersey. I find it less insulting than laughable for a new football fanatic to be telling us what our culture is and what it has always been. He is 21 FFS, do you honestly believe that he'll always be like this? Are our key posts in Clark, Jamar and Frawley weak? How about Garland last week? No?
Take a breath, sit down, and stop being so damn irrational.
Well he COULD be. It's four years now.
Surely the fact that he hasn't nailed down a spot, and has been "reduced" to playing as an outside flanker or tagger-type after all this time, is worrying?
I'll hold judgement until he returns.
Wasn't Hawkins trialled in the ruck and around the forward line, essentially told to get out of Pods' way?
Yes, but as I said earlier in the thread, he always had the body of a KPP. You knew he'd be a gorilla if/when he got it right, it was just a matter of getting it right.
Plus Hawkins had played some big games, albeit sporadically, in his first couple of years.
I'm not sure you can say any of that about Watts yet.
So let's recap, he's been consistently good!
But his forms been dropping "slightly"....
But he's still been consistently good!
But in bad enough form to be dropped.....
But he's still been consistently good!
So I ask again, how can one be rated as "consistently good" if their form is dropping to a point where they get dropped? Either what's being perceived as "consistently good" isn't actually what's happening or the benchmark for "consistently good" isn't what it used to be
I'll answer that - he hasn't been consistently good. Melbourne fans sem to think he has been but he has one good game, a few decent ones and some poor ones. He will bounce back and I believe Neeld is the man to get the best out of him but he deserved to be dropped this week.
Is the correct answer and kudos to you for actually admitting to it unlike a few other apologists who refuse to acknowledge this.
I hope for Watts sake he does turn it around, that millstone of expectation is a heavy one to bear but he's going to have to work harder if he's going to shake it
You'll never find me in a corner claiming that Wattsy is a star, I just see potential in the way he plays and can see why we're dropping him.
Its funny how it works.
Get kid who can star against other kids of his own age and shape ,he stands up kicks match winning goals and stars at draft camp , he stands out that much that you pick him with your first pick.
Put him in the best professional comp , he trains harder than he ever has ,has more time doing footy than he ever has but as he is young and the club is struggling he doesn't dominate like he did as a kid.
Add that the game style has changed from when he was picked to being a more long bomb style that suit the big bears rather than giraffes and you have a kid thats rated worse than some untried u18 kids.
Its either crazy or he was over rated by all the smart judges.
Would he better at another club. Perhaps but not guaranteed. Id compare to Mackie Brown and Hawkins at Geelong.
Mackie was a real roll of the dice pick for Geelong when were desperate for forwards. We were hanging out for someone to be the player and Mackie seemed to be taking for ever to get a game. Worked out alright in the end
Brown is the same age as Watt and has struggled for games due to injuries and competition. He seems to finally be finding his feet but he is still going to have to find a way to work with the Hawkpod to stay in the side.
Finally Hawkins. Different shape I know but the expectation, the lack of performance was similar. A Boy star that has taken his time to find a way to command the game like he could as a kid. For us it was worth the wait.
So what's, Watts worth? Like it or not if Melbourne was forced to sell him he would be worth less than they paid. Its the last thing they should do imo but new coaches don't always like the players they are given. To team like Tigers he would be worth 2 R1 picks , playing along side Riewoldt he would star.
You don't have Sam Jacobs anymore.
Back on topic, Watts will be ok, not no.1 draft pick great, but ok. Don't think Adelaide would even consider him, unless we lost Tippett and even then, we have enough depth in that department.
Just a reminder for everyone to remember what board they are on. This isn't a Bay 13 Jack Watts thread. And this isn't any one club board, where you can just ridicule trade suggestions for no reason other than your club doesn't walk away huge winners.
And this one is just my own personal taste, but has anyone ever found the 'packet of chips' jokes funny? No? Good, maybe we can go a season without them then.
Another way to look at Watts development is to give a trade value to the rest of the top 10 from the 2008 ND.
I agree with this perspective.
As I said before, nothing is either absolutely one way, or absolutely the other. And I'm pretty sure those carrying on the antics here are well aware that this situation doesn't fit into the simplistic categorisation they're touting. But they'll keep on repeating anyway, of course.
I'm starting to think the REAL reason for the continued hysterical hyping up of Naitanui and lynching of Watts at every opportunity is simply because certain people are resentful about Watts receiving the attention he did in 2009, and after 3 years, they still can't get over it
Look, Neeld said nothing of the sort.
Go and watch his actual interview FFS.
And did you read anything other than the title of that article?
As for Watts, Melbourne won't trade the lad.
I've got great faith in him, it's all about building his body and confidence now.
I think the saying "Its hard to soar like an eagle, when you are surrounded but turkeys" best sums up Jack Watts. Undoubted talent, but the team he has been playing in is rubbish. Put him in a successful culture, around good established players, and he would flourish. It may happen at Melbourne, it will just take a hell of a lot longer, especially with the pressure of him being a saviour of the club etc.
He would still be worth a high first round pick, because Melbourne need him, other clubs would love to get him and he has potential to be great.
If he comes off soon, which is a possibility despite what some may like to think, he could be worth a lot more than a high pick.
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