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Let's be honest, the human body is tuned for addiction. Sugar and salt anyone?
Moved Thread Illicit drugs and all related issues! (split from ASADA thread)
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DapperDon
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How is making it illegal fixing this problem though?
It does annoy me though that some people who are otherwise socially aware see no problems buying their E tablets/cocaine from, say, a trusted friend - ultimately their money is still funding all sorts of nasty types who are involved in all manner of evil doings - child prostitution, sex slaves, killings, propping up nasty regimes etc.
It might be wrong to criminalise it but I think it is also wrong to support it while it is illegal.
It might be wrong to criminalise it but I think it is also wrong to support it while it is illegal.
Whispering_Jack
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I don't have a strong view either way on this issue as I can see both sides of the argument, however, I think some of the harder drugs like ice and heroine are pretty f*%$ed up. The s**t you hear about what it does to you is scary. Alcohol is clearly a very big problem in the community, but I feel like legalising the really hard drugs could be disastrous when you take into account how much it alters you.
Having said that, I can see merit in regulating and legalising drugs like cannabis and and cocaine which, from the limited knowledge I have of drugs, are much harder to OD on and aren't as harmful to your overall health.
Having said that, I can see merit in regulating and legalising drugs like cannabis and and cocaine which, from the limited knowledge I have of drugs, are much harder to OD on and aren't as harmful to your overall health.
- Apr 11, 2002
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Yep, & not only humans - I had a dog that became addicted to cane toad poison, there was nothing I could do to stop him as the ******* things were everywhere, the silly bugger eventually overdosed. & then there were the birds getting hammered on rotting mango's each season. 'Life' is very weird...
Whispering_Jack
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yeah it is, but very common & once they get the taste, usually there's no going back
lost 2 dogs to cane toads, the overdose & a pup who was poisoned which is a horrible death btw.
Whispering_Jack
Norm Smith Medallist
wow.
This is always a tricky explanation because I don't dismiss the awful effects that these two drugs have on society. But, again I'll argue on the side of harm minimisation and having professional advice and support at the point of supply.
While I strongly advocate the legalisation of psychedelics I'm more circumspect with opiates and meth. I still believe it is much safer to provide pure, prescribed drugs to consenting adults rather than have them sourcing unknown crap off a dodgy backstreet dealer. I know that if my kids chose to experiment (despite my education/advice) I'd prefer that they would be able to source safe alternatives. When we have the knowledge to provide safer alternatives, it is society's obligation to offer that alternative. The unsafe stuff on the street will always fill that gap in the market. Like any prescription med they'd have the potential to be abused but at least it would be pure substances with less side-effects.
I do have some reservations with plant medicines such as ayahuasca, cannabis and psilocybin being in the hands of Big Pharma but the benefits could also be significant.
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The ridiculous taboo surrounding any talk related to the positives of illicit drugs has thwarted proper, informed education. You promote responsibility by treating people like adults rather than children and giving them ALL the correct information on drugs (positive and negative) so that they can then make an adult decision about their own consciousness. It drives me to despair that a patriarchal society will simply tell us 'you can't do this' rather than giving us informed choices to make.
- Apr 11, 2002
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What's bolded is what I posted.
...which results in an expansion of consciousness... the reducing valve (as Huxley termed it) that is the brain, opens up and that which is ordinarily overwhelming comes flooding through. It is a state of consciousness that is dysfunctional for practical purposes in day to day activity because the greater consciousness is inconceivably vast. A DMT trip is supposedly the most intense experience of this reality and is often described as being unbearably overwhelming. The brain functions to inhibit that which we cannot cope with in a material world. This is how I read it anyhoo.
You mean the s**t *s your brain up so much that you trip more balls than humanly imaginable...
Hope it's not a problem to post here. I'm all for personal liberties; I just can't stand when people aren't calling a spade a spade. Some people like getting messed up. Don't rationalise it away, just own it. Doing otherwise makes me think you are insincere and fake.
Consciousness can't expand any further than knowledge of its self and the universe. The overwhelming thing you write off will just be an undeniable awareness that consciousness is not dependent on your body.
You were wrong about my lack of experience of so called consciouness expanding drugs. I have experienced mushrooms. The experience was that of being aware of a night time dream whilst also having my normal senses active.
Have left my body to. Think that is to do with a severe concussion back in the day.
Doss
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Yes, no problem with opposition posters posting here, as long as they're respectful of the board rules and as long as it doesn't revert to any discussion of the ASADA issue.
I have to say I find it hard to imagine agreeing with legalisation of something like ice, because the stories of what it does to people are pretty harrowing.
I also do believe that the criminalisation approach in general has failed.
I have to say I find it hard to imagine agreeing with legalisation of something like ice, because the stories of what it does to people are pretty harrowing.
I also do believe that the criminalisation approach in general has failed.
There are a whole raft of options before you put heroin on pharmacy shelves. By decriminalising consumption and minor possession and treating heroin as a medical rather than criminal issue, you can reduce problem use, juvenile use, mortality, HIV rates and property crime, and save a big pile of public money to boot. Portugal has been running a fairly grand experiment to that effect over the past fifteen years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal
Bennett.
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But if some people are to remain consistent in their beliefs that they don't care what people do, choose to take etc etc, then ice must be in the mix
Doss
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Comes down to a question of how black and white you want to be, I suppose.
Interested to know what it was like from outside your body. Quite surreal I'd imagine. Scary perhaps?
I didn't mean to claim you had no experience with psychedelics rather you answered my post in the way I'd expect a psychologist would try to rationalise the experience from what is scientifically known.
I'd argue that consciousness can expand further into realms it could never conjure from known experiences. Neither dreams nor imagination have ever matched the uniqueness of psychedelic experience for me. They are far far away from anything I could ever hope to consciously manifest. Jung's Collective Unconscious is the analytical psychologists explanation for this realm.
And I agree, that consciousness does not depend upon the body and that is a tough thing for a sentient being to reconcile.
No problem with you posting on this board personally.
I rarely approach this topic by trying to grasp it rationally but I think it requires a rational discussion to help gain mainstream traction.
Sure, some people like getting messed up... and some see a chance to explore and learn. I'm in the latter group. I believe psychedelics need to be treated with respect and not taken purely for recreational purposes. In fact, nobody in their right mind would ever take ayahuasca recreationally. By all accounts it's an horrific ordeal.
Why would analysing the psychedelic experience make you insincere or fake? If anything, judging others on their experiences and comprehension of those experiences comes across as fake, juvenile and a bit conceited tbh.
It was a general observation, not directed explicitly towards you.
That's not at all what I was doing/do.
Honestly, I've seen nothing good ever come from drug use and will never touch them, nor would I tolerate my kids doing so whilst minors. By that same token, I've never seen outright bans of things have good come from it either and believe in peoples right to choose despite my own rather rigid beliefs. Would be great if we could separate the social impacts of drug use from those who use. Wouldn't have a problem with drugs at all in that case.
Outside the body definitely wasn't scary. Haven't done it for ages. The first time was a Monday morning after 3 hard drinking nights. I had to get up. I had responsibilities. I tried to force my self up out of bed. I really did. But I fell back to sleep. But there I was above body getting further away. I thought I was dead and had left my body. I set off to tell a brother 'hey look I'm dead' . Movement, everything was free and easy. A little later I returned to my body with a bit of wow about it all.
A few times I did it without leaving my body. More or less like the aneathetsic wearing off but you can't move. Not so much fun but not really a problem either. I think those sorts of expereinces, and there is more of the out of body ones, come from a car accident in, believe it or not, 1968. (Was on the way to a footy clinic. Grew up in the Wimmera which became Essendon's zone and they were putting on a clinic in a nearby town (Warracknabeal). Not sure now but I think Ken Fletcher and Geoff Pryor were to be there to name two. Being an Essendon supporter was dead keen to go. There was about 8 of us in a station wagon before seat belts. The driver was the father of a few of the passengers and he crossed a major road evidently in full football discusion and we were cleaned up. I came out and went head first into a white post. I think I was the worst of it. Another chap had broken ribs. The Essendon players sent their best wishes to the hospital when they heard about it which was good but it is a concussion that still affects me. The joke at school was I got my brains unscrambled. I sort of started getting good or better marks in maths and sciences.)
As far as your arguing goes, is there more than death and the universe? And I think you are under selling sleep. Where do you think a dream occurs? Is it on atomic matter? It is a question that good science should be addressing. I have my post atomic theory on it but it is only a theory.
Or, in terms of your last sentence, if conciousness does not depend on the body, what does it depend on? Where does consciousness come from?
