In Hine we trust....but What would you have done differently?

[Vankri]

Why?

For example I would have been very, very frustrated if the club traded for Trengrove considering his extremely worrying injury setback, and our recent history with injuries.

Player potential is great, but sometimes you have to know the value you are going to get. I feel that's what we have done with Varcoe.

 

[ClaytonM]

For example I would have been very, very frustrated if the club traded for Trengrove considering his extremely worrying injury setback, and our recent history with injuries.

Player potential is great, but sometimes you have to know the value you are going to get. I feel that's what we have done with Varcoe.

Yeah. Just think we would have been stuck with SteveJ all these years if we had of ignored his injury issues a few year back. We really need to take a short term view when making our decisions.

 

[The Pied Piper]

I think that our tall stocks are actually ok with Moore and I'm actually excited about the improvement shown by Marsh. throw in a fit Brown and Reid plus continued growth of Grundy and Witts and I think pick #5 would be a waste on a tall. I'd be going for a Skilled by foot flanker / utility type. same reason that we got Shanberg.

Is it a waste using pick5 on Lever, who will be a gun interceptor, skilful counter attacker, match saver, big game player, potential captain ? Can never have enough of those types - they help win you flags.

 

[Seedsfan]

Well we would got lot less IF we kept Beams and He might not even played next year IF he stayed

There is no way he would not play next year and miss out on 650k

 

[Seedsfan]

Which he would do a year later with even more ill will and leave us with even less negotiating power.

A lot of guys end up staying ROK wanted a trade to us and when it didn't go through he was happy to stay a Swan

 

[Seedsfan]

No, he wanted to go for family reasons (Beams, his Manager and Collingwood all agreed on this)
What evidence do you have that it was only for more money?

What are they going to say he left for money some people will buy any bullshit they are told

 

[mike123]

Is it a waste using pick5 on Lever, who will be a gun interceptor, skilful counter attacker, match saver, big game player, potential captain ? Can never have enough of those types - they help win you flags.

Yeah, but we need more of other types too. Plus he's got injury question marks.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I think Hine's biggest blue was not trading Anthony Corrie for Gary Ablett in 2009

 

[motr]

COLLINGWOODDraft picks: 5, 9, 30, 48, 85, 103, 121
Arrived: Jack Crisp, Levi Greenwood, Travis Varcoe, pick 5, pick 25 (on-traded to North Melbourne).
Departed: Dayne Beams, Heritier Lumumba (traded), Luke Ball, Ben Hudson, Quinten Lynch, Nick Maxwell (retired), Caolan Mooney, Marty Clarke, Peter Yagmoor (delisted), picks 25 and 67.
2015 premiership odds: $26
Trade Activity: Dayne Beams and pick 67 to the Brisbane Lions for Jack Crisp and picks 5 and 25. Pick 25 to North Melbourne for Levi Greenwood; Heritier Lumumba to Melbourne in a three-way deal involving Mitch Clark from Melbourne to Geelong and Travis Varcoe to Collingwood.
Trade Misses: The Pies set the bar high early with the Lions and named the likes of Pearce Hanley, Dayne Zorko, Sam Mayes, Jack Redden and James Aish as potential trade bait for Beams. After being firmly told all were off limits, they settled for Victorian Crisp.
Trade Period mark: With two more members of the 2010 premiership side making it known they wanted out early on in the period, it looked as though the Magpies would have their work cut out for them to find suitable replacements. They left with a Kangaroo who just had his career-best season, a talented young Lion, and an experienced, quick Cat who got his body right this season. Add to that a second top 10 draft selection from the Beams deal and the Pies have emerged pretty well after things looked dicey in the opening week. 8/10. - Jennifer Phelan

8/10 is about right. Sometimes you can't take all the tricks, but you limit your losses with a pretty horrible hand.

 

[TradeDraft]

Greenwood and Varcoe in those trades I wouldn't have accepted either. Varcoe adds the outside pace we need, but the value just wasn't right and Lumumba is better. Similarly with Greenwood as strong as his year was last year, it was one year and I only would have been willing to trade pick 30 to get him given that.

Well I agree we could of got more for Lumumba but I think Hine just wanted a Replacement for him and Varcoe was the best option and was not fussed of upgrading a 3rd round pick.

I agree with Greenwood it is a worry it really been just 1 really good season and before that he was mostly in the VFL but He had a Big Game vs Peptide Bombers in the Finals. So performing in the Finals is a great sign that it could be not just a 1 year thing and he could continue on with this at the Pies

 

[Vicky Park]

For example I would have been very, very frustrated if the club traded for Trengrove considering his extremely worrying injury setback, and our recent history with injuries.

Player potential is great, but sometimes you have to know the value you are going to get. I feel that's what we have done with Varcoe.

Hey Vankri, off topic, but your new avatar. Is that a mural which was painted onto a side wall of a building in Johnston Street, Collingwood? I have always admired it.

 

[DrDavoren]

Prior to the Beams / H / Greenwood trades ...

Shaw <-> Adams ? In a few years we may very well feel that we won that (Not sure GWS are thrilled with Shaw)

Paine <-> Karnezis ? Too early to say. Paine has hardly been tearing it up at Brusbane

Tom Young <-> 70's pick <-> J.Russell . Everybody lost that one (T.Young got delisted this year)

Wellingham <-> Pick 17 (Grundy) How is that not a win?

Dawes <-> Pick 19 (Broomhead) In 2015 we may forget Dawes even existed

Have I missed any?

You can't say we haven't done well from the above, clearly Bucks saw the writing on the wall as other teams had discovered the kryptonite to our 2010-11 game play.
He also saw the issues with the rat pack and jolly etc, So we have moved some players on...
Hine has ensured we have secured some promising talent in the last two years through trades and drafting for the future, whilst I suspect they didn't want to drop out for too long, we have been cruelled by injuries and some unexpected departures/retirements.

The future leaders are now needing to step up and this will be a difficult time with Maxwell and Ball leaving, Beams was not much of a leader. Looking forward to seeing Adams, Langdon Moore and Scarenberg develop into our future core group.

If we can maintain our position or even slip back into the eight next year, I would think the future is definitely bright.
Hopefully this year proves to be a great period which sets us up for the next tilt at a flag.
Could believe the rating Terry Wallet gave for trade week, what a flog.

In Hine we trust

 

[Quicky]

He also saw the issues with the rat pack and jolly etc, So we have moved some players on...

What were these issues?

 

[DrDavoren]

I'm not completely convinced any of the trades we made I would have accepted. Not the denigrate what was done, what was done was what Collingwood pretty much saw as needing to get done given the circumstance with both Beams and Lumumba wanting out - and when that happens you're always on the loosing end of it.

--

Beams I would have offered up to GWS and Gold Coast and if Beams as a contacted player refused a trade, as he is entitled as a contracted player to do, I'd be saying if he doesn't want to go to either club then he isn't going anywhere as Brisbane's offer and the eventual deal reached was unsatisfactory. Picks 5/25/Crisp don't appeal and Beams isn't eligible for free agency for another couple of years yet. As an uncontracted player next year Beams could be traded anywhere so I would at the least have kept him as an asset for a further season, even in the extreme case that he decided to sit out the season as his value is not reducing. Additionally with Claye Beams 23 and in my view not a best 22 player by the time Dayne is actually free agency eligible it is entirely possible that Claye has been delisted, which may sway his thoughts re. Brisbane some.

Greenwood and Varcoe in those trades I wouldn't have accepted either. Varcoe adds the outside pace we need, but the value just wasn't right and Lumumba is better. Similarly with Greenwood as strong as his year was last year, it was one year and I only would have been willing to trade pick 30 to get him given that.

I would have started out targeting Jeff Garlett and Mitch Clark. Clark eventually chose Geelong and would have gotten through to them anyway. Garlett I think may well have been open to joining us if we immediate targeted him and said "we have a position in our best 22 with your name on it." A Blair for Garlett trade would have been sufficient to get the deal done given the late pick Melbourne put forth to get him. And as soon as Clark said no I would have aggressively targeted Jon Giles. Similarly with Giles I would have made him a priority, let him know that and similarly say to him "we have a position in our best 22 with your name on it" and we could have with our third round selection (48) have trumped Essendon's eventual offer.

Lumumba in the end I would have traded to Melbourne for pick 23 given Clark requested the move to Geelong instead.

I would have taken an aggressive shot at Thomas Boyd and have put Reid and Witts on the table but at the end of the day Griffen and pick 6 is likely to them more appealing and that multi year multi million dollar offer is almost certainly more appealing to Boyd than whatever we have leftover in our salary cap.

I also would have asked both Ball and Maxwell back as both are required players and required for the development of our young players. Probably Ball would, Maxwell likely wouldn't given he retired mid season and felt his body was past it.

Then in through the draft it would be as simple as:
9: Darcy Moore (F/S)
23: Peter Bampton
30: Connor Blakely
Rookie promote: Jack Frost

Deals:
Lumumba to Melbourne for pick 23.
Blair for Jeff Garlett
Giles for Pick 48.

In the scenario these deals couldn't happen then I'd be asking Melbourne about Watts and Trengove (even with the foot I'd chance it). If not then I'd reluctantly go the Varcoe trade if I could get a small pick upgrade to make me feel better about it.
If Garlett and Giles said no then the other pieces (Blair and pick 48 stay) with pick 48 = Toby McLean.

Beams was uncontracted after next year, he would have got there one way or the other, as I read it we would have got last offer to try to retain him but he could have gone.

Sure he may have had to go in the draft but we would have gotten nothing.
Why not just let him go we get the opportunity to turn pick 5 into something we end up with Greeno and Crispo in the process.

Think Ball will go into a position with the AFL and Maxy will try his hand at another club before returning to us.

 

[DrDavoren]

What were these issues?

Well if you believe half the stories implied from current or ex players there were some who were opposing the changes and opportunities being given to others, by this I mean when Dids wasn't getting a go, Jolly too.
Goldsack and Lamumba went on record as saying some ex players wouldn't even talk to others in the rooms etc.
I think Swan was included in this too early, especially when Bucks had in playing forward. Although hard to know what injuries he was carrying at the time.

 

[76woodenspooners]

You can't say we haven't done well from the above ...

Yes, that was my point ... We've done OK from our trading

 

[The Pied Piper]

Yeah, but we need more of other types too. Plus he's got injury question marks.

I just think he's the best player to pick at 5, regardless of what else we need. Despite the acl, he's ready to go. He's got the goods. If you think the other types like Laverde will be better players, then fair enough. I just think there's only 1 lever so you get him so no one else has him. Dare say the other 2 picks we have will be on the best of what's left of the mid sized mids with speed, endurance & decent skills.

 

[TradeDraft]

I just think he's the best player to pick at 5, regardless of what else we need. Despite the acl, he's ready to go. He's got the goods. If you think the other types like Laverde will be better players, then fair enough. I just think there's only 1 lever so you get him so no one else has him. Dare say the other 2 picks we have will be on the best of what's left of the mid sized mids with speed, endurance & decent skills.

Well lot of people on Draft&Trade Forum said Lever could been the number 1 pick if he was not Injured

 

[mike123]

I just think he's the best player to pick at 5, regardless of what else we need. Despite the acl, he's ready to go. He's got the goods. If you think the other types like Laverde will be better players, then fair enough. I just think there's only 1 lever so you get him so no one else has him. Dare say the other 2 picks we have will be on the best of what's left of the mid sized mids with speed, endurance & decent skills.

I think we should pick the best available player that fills one of our list holes. Lever doesn't do really do that.

 

[TradeDraft]

I think we should pick the best available player that fills one of our list holes. Lever doesn't do really do that.

Hine said he does not do that. He takes the Best Available that High in the Draft

 

[mike123]

Hine said he does not do that. He takes the Best Available that High in the Draft

Well then, I guess that's what I'd do differently to Hine.

 

[TradeDraft]

Well then, I guess that's what I'd do differently to Hine.

I agree what you saying and I agree but you could easily miss a Gun doing that

 

[the mighty T]

The Varcoe move I wouldn't have followed through with, don't see the point given what someone like Young has shown thus far in a similar role.

Would've chased Whiley hard and Garlett

 

[domin8tors]

Then you probably want Laverde. Hine alluded in an interview to that type.

I hope so, from what I read this kid ozzes skill which is something that we don't have.

 

[domin8tors]

Is it a waste using pick5 on Lever, who will be a gun interceptor, skilful counter attacker, match saver, big game player, potential captain ? Can never have enough of those types - they help win you flags.

yes having 10 Tony Locketts in the goal square isn't going to win you the game you still need skilled mids to get the ball. I have no doubt that lever will not be a good player but I don't think that type of player is what we need.