Indigenous players - do they have the motor?

[Malifice]

**** there is some ignorant rubbish posted in this thread.

People just dont understand race and ethnicty at all.

So many myths, prejudices and BS shining through.

 

[The Speaker]

Welcome Malifice, do remember this isn't SRP, try not to get too angry, enjoy your stay.

 

[Malifice]

The racism here is astonishing.

Your ethnic heritage has no impact on your endurance, because endurance is achieved through cardio-vascular exercise, a good diet and commitment. Indigenous Australians are less likely to have equal access to the dietary requirements, other methods besides running to gain cardio (like exercise bikes or swimming pools) and well trained fitness instructors who understand the best way to develop a strong cardio. Despite this there are numerous Indigenous athletes who have excellent endurance, amongst them Andrew Walker who wins Carlton's time trial almost every year, and Ed Curnow who won it this year.

There is no biological sound basis for 'race' - It's a social construct based on arbritary physical differences such as skin pigmentation. From a pure biological sense, it would make more sense to divide humans into 'races' based on different blood types - but that would be rather difficult to do.


Environmental and cultural factors weigh much more on an individuals athletic ability - Skin pigmentation has nothing to do with it.

To both of you gentlemen, I applaud you.

 

[Malifice]

Welcome Malifice, do remember this isn't SRP, try not to get too angry, enjoy your stay.

Its just so amazing how much misinformation there is on the 'race' topic.

Its frightening the amout of fabrication, myths and outright bias is on display.

And in direct opposition to the science.

 

[Seadog]

how many world class white sprinters are there?
how many world class black swimmers are there?

Pointing out an observation based on qualified experience doesn't make you racist no matter how much the pc police want to try and come out. Just like in exactly the same way its not racist to say an aboriginal has brown skin. It only becomes racist if you use the above information to discriminate against them.

Mmm, it could be racist if it is untrue. Which in this case you could mount a pretty good case that it is.
Having said that I'm sure Roos isn't racist but others less ethical could use it as racist ammo.

 

[Mcvanish]

The Question that paul roo's asked has been completely taken out of context, he was asking about players without the endurance capacity such as indigenous players like Cyril and Lewis Jetta.

 

[Blue and Silver]

That's completly untrue, genetics play a huge part in determining your althetic ability and attributes. Whilst it is possible to become a lot better at endurance than other components of fitness, your gentic make up will always have a certain limit at which you can no longer improve.

Genetics do ethnicity doesn't.

If your father was tall and a good runner, and your mother as well, you have a greater chance of being tall and a good runner. But good runners exist in all ethnicities.

Before I hear the Olympics argument, I'd like to point out that individuals who grow up on wide open plains where the next village, town etc. probably get a lot more experience running places then people with cars, in densely packed urban centres.

 

[HARKER]

My problem with the article is that it seems fabricated to elicit a response. Maybe i've been living under a rock but the article is based on "recent assertions" - which aren't clarified in the article - that indigenous players lack resilience and skills. I take back my objections if recent assertions have been made about indigenous players in this regard. But it seems like a story for stories sake to me.

Correct.

Whilst we're off on a tangent debating whether such a comment is racist or not, Roos has got his way by bringing himself into the limelight again.

Time for a book maybe?

 

[Stan Darsh]

The way I took Roos' comments, he was suggesting that the reason why Indigenous players will be picked up at a lower rate is because they enter the system having not worked on their endurance at the level to which white kids have. Nothing to do with genetic predisposition. It's a little troubling that some posters assume that's what he meant AND are trying to defend the legitimacy of that notion.

When I was an early teen we lived in Kenya for 6 months and I can find some parallels between my experience and with this topic. I had been playing club soccer for years in Melbourne. When I joined a team in Nairobi I was stronger and had more endurance than practically all of my teammates. Conversely my skill and technique were below par, despite me playing an attacking midfield/Left wing role for my club and at school in Melbourne due to my superior technical ability.

The football culture of both countries were just completely different at the time. We scarcely used a ball when training over here, most of it was spent running laps and doing pushups. Before all the Dutch technical directors came in, fitness was the primary objective in Australia. Where as in Kenya dribbling and technique was what was heavily focused on along with beating your man and showcasing your skills being heavily embedded in the country's culture. Because of all these factors, I ended up playing as a defensive midfielder for the Kenyan club.

The environment plays a much bigger role than genetics in the vast majority of instances.

 

[seanoff]

Nathan Djerrkura was up there in our timetrials.

I think while a lot of darker skinned races have more powerful muscles but less endurance, that can always be changed.

A tank can be built, as can power. So it depends on the person to be able to do that. Not on their race. If Lewis Jetta put his mind to it, he'd develop a motor for example.

nonsense

Ethiopians, Kenyans, Tanzanians etc DOMINATE long distance running. that is all endurance and not power. last i looked they were pretty dark. Power athletes cannot run marathons at that sort of speed.

of course for those three countries the elevation people live at helps. permanent elevation training. Nairobi is at nearly 1700M, if you can run well up there coming down to sea level when you are 23 must be like breathing pure oxygen. so some of it is environment.

good genetics + training + diet + environment = good start.

power and endurance can be built to a ceiling. everyone will have a different ceiling depending on their genetic makeup. i could train from now until the end of the universe and never run anything like 11 secs for 100m nor would i ever run a sub 2.20 marathon.

Lewis Jetta might develop a motor but it will not be as good as some one who genetically has a motor, and they will never have jettas explosive pace.

mind you most AFL players have a decent long range motor, the sport demands it. NRL players are power animals, short powerful bursts. the sports lend themselves to different makeups.

 

[yakka man]

Some good arguments in this thread and some good laughs. Some of the examples people have used against Paul Roo's are in fact racist themselves. It is impossible to accurately judge the genetics of Aboriginal players and make accurate assertions. Paul Roo's has an opinion and whether right or wrong he is not racist.

 

[believe_it]

The racism here is astonishing.

Your ethnic heritage has no impact on your endurance, because endurance is achieved through cardio-vascular exercise, a good diet and commitment. Indigenous Australians are less likely to have equal access to the dietary requirements, other methods besides running to gain cardio (like exercise bikes or swimming pools) and well trained fitness instructors who understand the best way to develop a strong cardio. Despite this there are numerous Indigenous athletes who have excellent endurance, amongst them Andrew Walker who wins Carlton's time trial almost every year, and Ed Curnow who won it this year.

I wasn't going to enter such a pointless discussion however that statement is absolute garbage. Thats like saying your skin color has got nothing to do with your ethnic heritage. They are both derived from physical heritable charactersitics. Too many people here spouting things they know nothing about - a lot of biased emotive opinions but not much knowledge. Kept us alive when we were apes but just isn't working that well now.

Ultimately it's about individuals versus populations but that is a concept many can't seem to come to terms with due to their own prejudice which is ironical.

 

[Dustin Credible]

I wasn't going to enter such a pointless discussion however that statement is absolute garbage. Thats like saying your skin color has got nothing to do with your ethnic heritage. They are both derived from physical heritable charactersitics. Too many people here spouting things they know nothing about - a lot of biased emotive opinions but not much knowledge. Kept us alive when we were apes but just isn't working that well now.

Ultimately it's about individuals versus populations but that is a concept many can't seem to come to terms with due to their own prejudice which is ironical.

This is true. It may surprise some to know that certain health problems such as sickle cell disease are routinely tested for in people of afro-carribbean extraction but not whites.

Indeed recent NICE (UK health body) guidance on blood pressure management advocates using different anti-hypertensive medication on the basis of the colour of peoples skin.

If skin colour is associated with other heritable differences why not athletic ability?

 

[Covertackle]

Here come the racism police... ffs

^ delirious gets us under way.

UR TALKING ABOUT A RACE WITH BLACK SKIN COLOR, ANYTHING NOT POSITIVE U SAY IS THEREFORE RACIST... get real seriouslly, this threads gonna turn it another joke

its racism when you lump all people into one category. plenty of NRL blackfellas would smash the toughest AFL players you got.

who got the motor then?




.

 

[Malifice]

If skin colour is associated with other heritable differences why not athletic ability?

Because the Science says so.

 

[Jables]

I am genetically almost identical to any Hispanic, Asian or African. That is scientific fact. There is an incredibly minimal genetic difference between Englishmen and Japanese, Aboriginals and Nigerians and so on. Race is a purely social construct, it satisfies a humans need to classify. If we accepted that it would be a great bother so we don't.

This is fact. My source is school. Read about Genetics, STR and haplotypes. And not on wikipedia, study it you lazy bastards before you talk about fast twitch muscle fibres or whatever nonsense you googled.

 

[Dustin Credible]

Because the Science says so.

Which science? Genuinely don't know.

The two examples I gave were from my line of work so it's scientific evidence I'm very familiar with.

Sports science i'm not overtly familiar with.

If these differences in heamoglobins and blood pressure regulation exist. Why should other physiological differences not?

 

[radiojake]

Correction: it's the University of Washington Huskies, but their campus is in Seattle WA. Brandon Roy & Detlef Schrempf played basketball there, and the very fine goalkeeper Hope Solo played soccer there.

My mistake - I was just relaying a story from my girlfriend, and she kept referring to them as the Huskies.. I guess I just assumed the 'Seattle' name from the location

 

[HARKER]

I am genetically almost identical to any Hispanic, Asian or African. That is scientific fact. There is an incredibly minimal genetic difference between Englishmen and Japanese, Aboriginals and Nigerians and so on. Race is a purely social construct, it satisfies a humans need to classify. If we accepted that it would be a great bother so we don't.

Try telling that to the Japanese gentleman standing at a urinal next to an Afro-American.

There is also a minimal genetic difference between us and apes.
In most cases though, the differences are quite distinctive.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Because the Science says so.

So the Ablett's and Tuck's just got lucky? No doubt environment played a fair part in it but you can't honestly tell me that you think that Jnr didn't inherit any of Snr's abilities.

One of the biggest differences between the pair would be Jnr's superior endurance which he has worked hard to achieve. The old man was renowned for his lack of training and being able to do what he did just on natural ability.

 

[Scotland]

Because the Science says so.

How come there is rarely a white guy in the final of the mens 100m sprint at the Olympics and there is never a black guy in the final of the mens 100m freestyle?

 

[radiojake]

How come there is rarely a white guy in the final of the mens 100m sprint at the Olympics and there is never a black guy in the final of the mens 100m freestyle?

Hmm.. let us ignore a whole host of cultural, environmental, economic and dietary factors that have effects on different individual's athletic ability and put it all down to the colour of one's skin pigmentation...

totally rational -

 

[Forward Press]

Why are there no black sumo wrestlers? Why are there no Asian AFL players? Why are there no world class Australian soccer players?

 

[Scotland]

Hmm.. let us ignore a whole host of cultural, environmental, economic and dietary factors that have effects on different individual's athletic ability and put it all down to the colour of one's skin pigmentation...

totally rational -

OK, lets look at the most successful Olympic nation - USA.

They have World class sports programs, arguably both the strongest swim team and the strongest track team, and a diverse population.

Why do African-American athletes dominate their track team but not feature in the swim team? Let me guess - swimming is for rich white kids and running is for poor black kids?

 

[barmy44]

Because the Science says so.

science also says that chimpanzees are between 96 - 98% genetically identical to humans, and that from person to person, there is a .5% variation at most.

i think you are being a little too quick to label things as 'racist'. no one is saying (that i have read, anyway...) that black or indigenous australian athletes are inferior or lazy, merely they are trying to explain why certain results in certain sports are so heavily skewed towards one or the other. at least, that is what i am trying to do. i certainly do not believe, however, that one race is any less advanced or evolved than any other. that is racism. and of course environment and development play a part, as well.

human beings today are identical genetically to human beings from 30,000 years ago, and all people are descended from the same stock. i am not stating that the genetic discrepancies are large, or skewed in favour of one race over another. im also well aware that black and white people are indistinguishable through DNA. however, i am basing my opinion on evolution, which takes thousands of generations. you do not think that one group of people who have evolved on the african plains for < 200,000 years might have evolved a different skill set to the group that evolved in the north of europe, which is mountainous and damn cold, for <100,000 years? the widespread diaspora of people recently (say, the removal of africans to america) has happened to recently, as there are vast amounts of time which lead to developed skill sets through evolution.

this leads me to believe that certain athletic traits which lead to an athlete excelling in certain sports might be more prevalent in certain races.

stating that black athletes dominate sports at the expense of intelligence, that is racism. stating that, due to results over a long period, white athletes might show more inclination to excelling in certain sports (swimming) while black athletes might have an inclination towards others (sprinting) is hardly a racist or bigoted statement.

finally, there are examples throughout nature of species which have evolved differently, in slightly different environments. they are almost indistinguishable, but for very slight differences in certain abilities. that is scientific fact. but it could not possibly apply to humans. that would be 'racist'

so, science says humans are almost genetically identical. however, the almost can give rise to certain advantages in certain areas of athletics. evolution is a strange beast, and the fact is that it happens in different environments, depending (rather broadly, i know) on whether you are black or white. this does not make one better than the other, but simply slightly different.

please, if you have better science than this, point me in the direction of it, because i like to learn.