Indigenous players - do they have the motor?

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by shifty mp, Mar 2, 2012.

Put it out there
  1. Malifice

    Malifice Moderator

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    So nothing then?

    What does global warming have to do with it?

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  2. tigernova

    tigernova Account Cancelled by User

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    besides the facts that black people have a higher muscle to fat ratio, a higher point of gravity, more flexible backbone, more fast twitch muscle, and cant swim for shit, i see your 'global warming drought parade' getting rained on all over..:rolleyes:





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  3. BigBroMike

    BigBroMike Draftee

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    Debate about genetic influences on athletic performance has been hampered by cultural and political taboos, despite frank and open discussion of how illness and disease may be influenced by genetic variations. As a result there isn't really that much known about it-
    "At the moment we know only of a couple of genes, probably less than 10, that have been shown to have some influence on the different types of human physical performance," North said. "There are probably hundreds of genes involved."

    The truth is geneticists have identified only a handful of genes that affect human physical performance. Kathryn North, of the Institute for Neuromuscular Research at the Children's Hospital at Westmead and the University of Sydney, has shown there is a common genetic variant in the fast-twitch muscle gene alpha-actinin-3 that renders it inactive in about 20 per cent of European populations and almost all Africans".

    Have you ever heard of epigenetics? If not, epigenetics is the study of alterations in gene activity that don’t imply changing the genetic code. The chemical marks don’t change a gene, it changes the activity of the gene, and you pass these changes down to successive generations.

    http://sweatscience.com/training-changes-your-genetics-or-rather-epigenetics/
    http://fitplusmag.com/magazine/augu...s-such-as-exercising-can-alter-gene-behavior/

    Epigenetics might be an explanation why at the Beijing Olympic Games, every competitor in the men's and women's 100 metre sprint finals traced their ancestry to West Africa. Even more remarkably, 15 of the
    16 runners are descendants of the slave trade, living in the Caribbean or the US. Jeanette Kwakye is the exception, born in England of Ghanaian parents.

    Or you could have other theories that the slave trade might have already played a eugenic role, intervening in natural selection with the strongest and fittest West Africans loaded on slave boats bound for the Americas, contributing to a dominance of Caribbean sprinters several centuries later. A Jamaican urologist, William Aiken, has proposed another, speculative, suggestion about why a nation of 2.8 million has achieved so much-
    "Since Jamaica was one of the last stops to be made by the slave ships, it ensured that only the most resilient and fittest of slaves were alive to disembark," he wrote in an article connecting sprinting prowess with high rates of prostate cancer, both of which he suggested could be linked to testosterone levels.

    Either way the questions that have been asked have been far from being answered. All we have atm is theories, which either get strengthened or disproved.
  4. Provost

    Provost Club Legend

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    I'm not touching race or discussion thereof, with a 10 ft pole!!!
    I just like this comment, typically all the fit & strong slaves would of been purchased greedily along the line, leaving the last stop with the rejects in a system of transportation & sale he has described :D
  5. Malifice

    Malifice Moderator

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    Not true. No studies (with even a modicum of solid methodology) have ever been conducted that demonstrate this.

    Certainly no studies have ever been conducted that demonstrate 'racial biology' is the cause.

    Not true. No studies (with even a modicum of solid methodology) have ever been conducted that demonstrate this.

    Certainly no studies have ever been conducted that demonstrate 'racial biology' is the cause.

    Not true. No studies (with even a modicum of solid methodology) have ever been conducted that demonstrate this.

    Certainly no studies have ever been conducted that demonstrate 'racial biology' is the cause.

    Not true. No studies (with even a modicum of solid methodology) have ever been conducted that demonstrate this.

    Certainly no studies have ever been conducted that demonstrate 'racial biology' is the cause.

    Not true. No studies (with even a modicum of solid methodology) have ever been conducted that demonstrate this.

    Certainly no studies have ever been conducted that demonstrate 'racial biology' is the cause of the lack of 'black' olympic swimmers.

    You would think with all that 'fast twitch muscle fibre', they would be pretty awesome at the 50m freestyle sprint yeah?

    By the way, whats a 'black person'?

    You are aware that there are literally thousands of different (isolated)ethnic groups on the continent of Africa alone right?

    We lumping Somalis, Kenyans, Eritrayans, Zimbabweans etc all together as one 'race' now are we?

    Subjective and arbitrary racial definition fail.
  6. tigernova

    tigernova Account Cancelled by User

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    says who? what you said so? where is your evidence? you just talk. google ANY of my solid FACTS and others will find they are true. you are just a liar, and cant be trusted with google OR the truth..

    here. this is for others. not liars like you...



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  7. tigernova

    tigernova Account Cancelled by User

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  8. radiojake

    radiojake Club Legend

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    tigernova, did you notice even in that article that the authors considered race a 'social construct' ?

    Also there was no link to their research, methodology or imperical data - That read like a ninemsn.com article
  9. candiehappy

    candiehappy Full Back

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    do you just accept everything that you read as gospel? I hope you aren't an Andrew Bolt fan
  10. tigernova

    tigernova Account Cancelled by User

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  11. Provost

    Provost Club Legend

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    :rolleyes:

    Because Taboo takes the form of an argument-a case to be proved, rather than an inquiry-it has a polemical flavor. Instead of sifting through fragmented, conflicting data on the rise of black athletes in sports, Entine seeks to prove his case by presuming his conclusion is true, then supporting it with selected evidence. Such a "proof" would be reasonable, were it not for his claim of reliance on the "scientific method." It is a disingenuous claim. The book does not even attempt to examine a robust data set, evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the information, or come to an evenhanded conclusion. Instead Entine chooses to spare his readers the ambiguities of robust data, which form the core of a scientific inquiry.

    LORETTA DIPIETRO is an associate fellow at the John B. Pierce Laboratory and an associate professor of epidemiology and public health at the Yale University School of Medicine.

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  12. BigBroMike

    BigBroMike Draftee

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    Race isn't a 'social construct'.
    There is no 'human race', humans are a species, not a race. A race is a subcategory of a species. If you don't want to call it a 'race' than it's an 'ethnic group' or 'population group', or whatever else liberal professors want to call it.
    However, by their logic a german shepherd and a chihuahua are the exact same thing. I mean afterall their both dogs aren't they? Seriously...
  13. Malifice

    Malifice Moderator

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    Yes, it is.

    As an example you are using the term 'black people' or 'africans' as if it were some objective stand alone 'race'.

    It isnt.

    Complete bullshit.

    The next subcategory down from species is subspecies. 'Race' has no taxonomic significance at all.

    The reason 'race' is avoided is because there are no biologically discreet 'races'. You need to understand this.

    You understand the difference between Homo Sapiens and Dogs right?

    Like, Dogs are a completely different species, that have been purpousely bred via eugenics for thousands of years (which is why they display such remarkable and diverse morphology as a species).

    You understand that Homo Sapiens are entirely different genetically, historically and environmentally than Dogs?

    The overwhelming majority of scienticsts, biologists, evolutionary theorists, geneticists, anthropologists, social sciences and the law.

    But hey, tigernova on BF thinks theyre all wrong.

    Youre entitled to that opinion.

    Posted above.

    As opposed to your rather laughable belly button 'study'.

    tigernova, I get the feeling that you dont understand the Scientific method, principles of falsification, importance of scientific consensus, and (importantly) problems with confirmation bias and issues with flawed methodology.

    Thus this a rather pointless debate.
  14. Provost

    Provost Club Legend

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    Neither does the author of 'Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We’re Afraid to Talk About It' it would seem...
  15. BigBroMike

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    Pretty much. The only people who can really study it and give it crediblity are students in the field of science, anthropology, biology etc. However, once they finish their bachelors and go on to doing honors or masters or PH'Ds they are their to do it for career purposes. People who are in academia and earning money from lecturing don't want to study or write anything controversial because they don't want to come off as politically insensitive or 'racist'. However, even if they want to write a thesis on something controversial like race/genetics they need to get approval from a whole range of people- their supervisor, university, ethics committees etc.

    That's the thing with Uni. It's not about writing down your opinions it's just about regurgitating other people's opinions and than agreeing with them. Anybody that goes against the grain fails- The nail that sticks out gets hammmered. However, in time this will change. Remember when people use to think the earth was flat!
  16. radiojake

    radiojake Club Legend

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    Your last line actually highlights the progression we have made past the concept of 'races' - 400 years ago the Europeans deployed a contsruct of 'race' to justify things like slavery, and built a hierarchy of man dependant on their closeness to the likeness of God. Whites were at the top, blacks were on the bottom, and Asians and Indigenous Americans were inbetween.

    There is no scientific backup to this construct - An entire construct was based on arbriatary physical differences (such as skin pigment) and whole sets of characteristics were considered inherent because of the 'race', rather than in spite.

    Just because the concept has been so normalised that you believe it whoe heartedly, doesn't mean it is true. As Maliface has tried on copius of other occasions, please bring forward some scienctific data that supports the idea of distinct different human 'races'.
  17. TheRedPill

    TheRedPill Team Captain

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    I'm not going to weigh into the debate either way, but you clearly don't get it. You've named about 4 players, out of the entire NBA - did you forget Larry Bird as well? When you look across the NBA, you'd be foolish to suggest African-Americans don't dominate. 9 out of the 10 All-Star starters were African-American, and I haven't even included Blake Griffin who is half-half anyway.

    I don't think you got a clue 'bro.
  18. randyzany

    randyzany Premium Platinum

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    Given that there are surprisingly so many human race experts in BF, I’ve always wondered what ‘race’ these groups of people: Indians (from the Asian subcontinent), Aborigines, Papua New Guineans and Pacific Islanders/Polynesians belong to ?

    I’m genuinely curious. Just give me a breakdown of what the 'races' categories are and how all 7 billion humans who populate this earth fit in them
  19. Provost

    Provost Club Legend

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    Here is a breakdown of 'race' (blood type distribution) for the human population
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type#ABO_and_Rh_distribution_by_country

    Blood group B has its highest frequency in Northern India and neighboring Central Asia, and its incidence diminishes both towards the west and the east, falling to single digit percentages in Spain.[47][48] It is believed to have been entirely absent from Native American and Australian Aboriginal populations prior to the arrival of Europeans in those areas.[48][49]
    Blood group A is associated with high frequencies in Europe, especially in Scandinavia and Central Europe, although its highest frequencies occur in some Australian Aborigine populations and the Blackfoot Indians of Montana.[50][51]
  20. radiojake

    radiojake Club Legend

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    Bingo - The human population in many ways is rather diverse, the idea of compiling everyone into distinct 'races', alongside the complicit characteristics that each 'race' is supposed to have inherented, is scientifically and biologically impossible.

    Despite centuries of scientific analysis being unable to substantiate the premise of distinct races, the social construct has imbedded itself into popular pysche and has become 'real' --

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  21. BigBroMike

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    Papua New Guineans and Fijians etc. belong to the Melanesian race. Samoans, Tongans, Cook Islanders etc. belong to the Polynesian race.
    Here's a map.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Pacific_Culture_Areas.jpg

    Aboriginals belong to the Australoid race and Indians.

    Looking at the map below we see that Australoids and Melanesians belong to the negroid race, which probably is the reason why aboriginals, fijians, PNG all have black skin! Samaons, Tongans, and Cook Islanders are classified as being part of the Mongoloid race.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Meyers Konversations-Lexikon (1885–90).Caucasoid race:
    Aryan
    Semitic
    Hamitic

    Negroid race:
    African Negro
    Hottentot
    Melanesian
    Negrito
    Australoid

    Uncertain:
    Dravida & Sinhalese
    Mongoloid race:
    North Mongol
    Chinese & Indochinese
    Japanese & Korean
    Tibetan
    Malay
    Polynesian
    Maori
    Micronesian
    Eskimo
    American


    As for Indians I found this post-

    Indians are considered Caucasian, including South Indians. That's why when you take DNA ancestry testing, you'll notice that India falls within the same area as Europe for gven SNPs. Their haplogroups are either the same as ours, or have common derivatives, also their mtDNA genepool is ancestral to the European one.

    Indians/Pakistanis etc. actually share the same common white ancestors as Europeans and Middle Easterners that's why the head shapes, nose shapes, hair textures, and other features are similar. They belong to the Mediterranean rung of the Caucasian race and their physical characteristics have long been documented by many anthropologists already, especially by German anthropologist Egon Freiherr von Eickstedt who went to India and studied the people there.

    The further east and south of the Indian Subcontinent you go, the people start gradually becoming more ''Asian'' on genes. The more northwest you go, the more Caucasian they become. There's a northwest-southeast cline. However even the darkest ones (or South Indians - Dravidians) fit the anthropological definition of ''Caucasoid''. Their Y-haplogroups are the same as North Indians (mainly R1a, R2, J2, H & L).

    Caucasians evolved in the Middle East and spread from there to Europe, North Africa and India. The Caucasians who migrated to Europe evolved pale skin in sunlight-deprived climates which would help aid vitamin D absorption, while the Caucasians who settled in India evolved darker skin to cope with the constant sunlight and heavy UV exposure. If they didn't evolve dark skin, they would have died off from melanomas.

    On populations genetics plots, Indians cluster closer to other Caucasian populations (such as Middle Easterners and then Southern Europeans) than to Africans, Asians or any other populations. In fact Indians are more genetically closer to North Europeans than they are to the Chinese even though the two countries have been neighbours since the dawn of civilization. There's not really a huge gulf between Indians and Europeans (except for cultural differences), to put things into greater context, Indians are more genetically closer to Norwegians than the Japanese are to Malaysians.


    Cavalli-Sforza’s Principal Coordinate (PC) autosomal DNA haplogroup gene mappings of major human ethnic and racial groups:
    http://bp1.blogger.com/_h5L0bq0pIhY/Rz7N…

    Cavalli-sforza genetic distance between populations:
    http://bp0.blogger.com/_h5L0bq0pIhY/R0FP…

    Cavalli-Sforza gene chart of the human race:
    http://bp1.blogger.com/_h5L0bq0pIhY/R_ih…

    Cavalli-Sforza map showing general genetic distance:
    http://bp1.blogger.com/_h5L0bq0pIhY/R0FL…

    genetic tree:
    http://bp2.blogger.com/_h5L0bq0pIhY/R0FL…
  22. radiojake

    radiojake Club Legend

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    The simple fact you have listed up to twelve 'uncertain' races kind of proves how bullshit your whole schema is.

    There is no definitive way to deduce distinct races, because, and I will italic and bold this for you make sure you understand, there is no biological or scientific data that supports the idea of distinct human races -

    All of your wiki pages have taken peoples of the world who share common physical features and deduced that a difinitive 'race' as the pre-cursor for such features.... There is nothing in the biology in humans that supports this hypothesis....

    The concept of race persists because of our collective instinct to categorise 'others', as well as the social and economic benefits that the elite were able to (and to an extent, still do) extract from this idea becoming a dominant hegemony