International Racing 2015

[rideclutch]

That's my point. History would actually suggest there are plenty that will be able to turn the tables on him from the Diamond Jubilee given how poor Aussie raiders have performed in the past.

Yeah I've been looking at like G-Force, Tropics, Due Dilligence and co. and just saying no, but you're right it doesn't work like that.

This would have to be considered a weak edition though, right?

 

[iluvparis]

Yeah I've been looking at like G-Force, Tropics, Due Dilligence and co. and just saying no, but you're right it doesn't work like that.

This would have to be considered a weak edition though, right?

I'd say more lacking in depth than weak - Muharaar and BB might clear out by 5 lengths

 

[rideclutch]

I'd say more lacking in depth than weak - Muharaar and BB might clear out by 5 lengths

Muhaarar just looks to fit that sprinter/miler profile so well, ratings says his Ascot effort measures up - what price do you need to find out?

 

[iluvparis]

$3.00 should be enough

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

BB was being trained as a 1400-1600m horse not all that long ago. Dont think there is a worry about him on a tougher uphill track personally.

No idea about the oppposition and depth of the race compared to previous years, but for quality of horse representing Aus in the July Cup, he's the best we have had in it. (yep, better than SSB)

 

[rideclutch]

$3.00 should be enough

Since there's better than that available, I take it you're heavily in his corner. Anything from far down the page to fill a drum?

 

[iluvparis]

No idea about the oppposition and depth of the race compared to previous years, but for quality of horse representing Aus in the July Cup, he's the best we have had in it. (yep, better than SSB)

Did lel

He's not even top 3 given Scenic Blast, Takeover Target and Choisir all tried and failed.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Did lel

He's not even top 3 given Scenic Blast, Takeover Target and Choisir all tried and failed.

So if he wins this does he go past them?

 

[iluvparis]

Since there's better than that available, I take it you're heavily in his corner. Anything from far down the page to fill a drum?

Have always had a bit of time for Astaire - although has been a costly horse to follow.

You could always go for Due Dilligence and hope for the usual O'Brien bullshit turnaround

 

[iluvparis]

So if he wins this does he go past them?

Nope - they all won at Ascot and have better Oz records.

 

[rideclutch]

BB was being trained as a 1400-1600m horse not all that long ago. Dont think there is a worry about him on a tougher uphill track personally.

No idea about the oppposition and depth of the race compared to previous years, but for quality of horse representing Aus in the July Cup, he's the best we have had in it. (yep, better than SSB)

Don't you feel like it's a little under-exposed exactly how good he is? The Newmarket was a bit of a joke race really. I agree that he is potentially the best to contest this race though (Choisir's heroics not forgotten).

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Nope - they all won at Ascot and have better Oz records.

Disagree. SSB open class form in Aus couldn't hold a candle to BB.

 

[rideclutch]

I agree that he is potentially the best to contest this race though (Choisir's heroics not forgotten).

Potentially being 'will never know' because his stud career will impact his longevity; mark of true champs.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Don't you feel like it's a little under-exposed exactly how good he is? The Newmarket was a bit of a joke race really. I agree that he is potentially the best to contest this race though (Choisir's heroics not forgotten).

I do, but i also think that potentially(dirty word)/on talent alone he's better than all of them though.

edit: you got my thoughts above.

 

[rideclutch]

I do, but i also think that potentially(dirty word)/on talent alone he's better than all of them though.

Fair enough.

 

[iluvparis]

Disagree. SSB open class form in Aus couldn't hold a candle to BB.

LOL WHAT?!?! Smashed up So You Think in a Guineas

BB won 1 race where he beat a bunch of horses who flattered to decieve for the rest of their campaigns.

 

[ABitWoofy]

With the July Cup coming up on the weekend get a look at the finish from Stravinsky in the 1999 edition - talk about putting a race to bed in the last furlong!



Looking back at past editions - you'd have to say that Brazen Beau has to be a huge lay at the current price. Pretty much EVERY Australian trained horse that has gone there from Ascot has regressed many lengths and they all seem to paddle in the last 200m after coming up the hill.

Gee I hope you're wrong, I'm on BB @ 6.10, 5.70 + 5.40.

Question is, do I lay him or go for glory

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

LOL WHAT?!?! Smashed up So You Think in a Guineas

BB won 1 race where he beat a bunch of horses who flattered to decieve for the rest of their campaigns.

Yea yea, watch where SYT raced in that Guineas and compare it to where he ran and won races the rest of his career, he was never a hope in hell that day.

Take BB's Newmarket win on face value, he beat/smashed much much better horse than likes of Wanted, Nicconi, King Pulse etc etc etc

 

[iluvparis]

How come he couldn't win at Royal Ascot then when ALL previously listed did?

Has started $8 and $5.50 in his two G1 wins and was equally smashed by Lankan Rupee in the Lightning. His Newmarket win has Protectionist one off freak performance written all over it for mine.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

How come he couldn't win at Royal Ascot then when ALL previously listed did?

Jesus, really?

Generous interpretation I would have thought Jug

Seen any other of the multiple world class jockeys try that this week?

Willow ass covering by saying the horse paddled the last 50

Pretty sure almost every winner of a straight race this week has been on the far side or down the middle.

Solid lack of a counterfactual.

He might have had the quickest had he raced with the pack.

As I said earlier though - long way to go to take that type of chance.

Imagine if a euro jockey came over here and rode a horse alone on the other side of the track in a Newmarket and got beaten a head - he would be crucified. The hypocrisy is laughable.

And he chooses a path that none of the other world class jockeys at the meet had taken succesfully all week?

In that case his sheer arrogance has cost the horse the race.

Not dissing Willow's ability in any way but he made the wrong call and cost the horse the race. It happens.

What? He had enough pace to easily come across and join the others. On what possible basis is there to say that was the best going other than the jockey's word? And if so how come no other horse in the next race - when there was a full field of 28 - took advantage of this so called 'best lane'.

Choose which side of the fence you're on mate...

 

[iluvparis]

Fair call

But I can't have him better than any of Takeover Target, Scenic Blast or Choisir.

And it doesn't change the fact that pretty much EVERY Australian trained horse (regardless of ability) that has run in the July Cup has performed lengths below the best.

I think he's a 3 to 4/1 shot not a 9/4 chance.

 

[rideclutch]

Protectionist one off freak performance written all over it for mine.

I'm glad this s**t finally got sorted, scratched my head for ages wondering where that performance came from.

Apparently that Herbert Power run had Melbourne Cup written all over it.

 

[rideclutch]

Also lol @ ADP laying the smackdown

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

But I can't have him better than any of Takeover Target, Scenic Blast or Choisir.

And it doesn't change the fact that pretty much EVERY Australian trained horse (regardless of ability) that has run in the July Cup has performed lengths below the best.

I think he's a 3 to 4/1 shot not a 9/4 chance.

And i wouldn't have a clue about most of the opposition so there is no argument from me there. I won't bet, just simply giving an opinion on how i think he measures up compared to the Australian horses that have been there.

The history of the July Cup re:Aus runners, it doesn't factor in much for me, bit like saying Godolphin has no hope in next years Melbourne Cup because they have gone like a busted in it for so many years before that. A different horse a different day.

TOT is a fair bit ahead of him, oversight on my behalf, didn't realise he had run there. Potentially just as good i think, but you couldn't say he's better or equal to him as it stands now, no way. Id argue that he is a better quality horse than both the other two but its only opinion based on upside/potential/talent on what was seen in Australia which was my argument to begin with. Different era/how a horse travels/opposition all come into it obviously.

Miss Andretti is clearly the best of all our Royal Ascot winners by along way to me, but does that mean i think she was a better horse than Black Caviar? No sir.

 

[iluvparis]

I thought of another high quality horse that was a complete failure in it - EXCEED AND EXCEL

Our record in the races is absolutely atrocious. I put it down to the track. You have to remember that each track in the UK is completely different which means form turnarounds are far FAR more common than on all the flat Australian tracks.

Also - he has still yet to win an open age Group 1 at WFA. No idea how you can say he has better form than any of those other sprinters given that.