Opinion Is it time for a priority pick rethink?

[Blue__Balls]

The draft is ineffective for equalization for the same reasons as the salary cap. The issues are structural and no amount of picks will fix what's wrong with carlton and various cellar dwellers before us.

Disagree. You've only gotta look at the rise of St Kilda, Melbourne and the Bulldogs to see that canny drafting can yield results. Hawthorn are still the pinnacle, but that won't last forever. The Saints are building a strong, competitive culture off the back of a few close wins and not much else. Jesse Hogan alone is giving the Dees something to aspire to, and they're starting to show signs of being much more competitive. Doggies are playing finals, and are even a chance for top 4!

Is more draft picks going to guarantee a rise up the ladder - of course not! It needs to be supported by a competent recruiting team, and a strong development group amongst the coaching staff. However you can't argue that getting more talented players into a club has zero impact on their improvement.

We don't need free agency but the players wanted it. They are the ones who forced its introduction.

I get how it happened - just wondering what it's supposed to achieve. Players already have a high degree of control over where they play (Tom Boyd/Ryan Griffen, Brisbane 5, Paddy Ryder etc.), so why introduce a system that rewards the team they're leaving, at no cost to the destination club?

We already have the potential for the AFL to mediate trades if required. Scrap FA and exercise those rights a little more if destination clubs are trying to ream the lower teams with unfair trades.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Can definitely see mid-year trading as an inevitability as well as looser trading and FA restrictions in general.

Carlton supporters eat our own as it is. Can you imagine what would happen if for example Yarran announced this week that he's going to West Coast? Boy howdy...

 

[JustaBattler]

Carlton should invest in its own reserves/VFL team. and do it right. Both Geelong and Box Hill sides could probably beat any of the bottom 4 AFL sides right now...The AFl should reward Clubs for promoting the game at VFL level - and get rid of the fake academy BS where franchise Clubs up North benefit because of AFL funding - to teh exclusion of a lot of middling Melbourne Clubs.

It isn't an accident that Geelong and Hawthorn can get AFL standard players to plug gaps from their VFL squads.

 

[BluesRule]

Can definitely see mid-year trading as an inevitability as well as looser trading and FA restrictions in general.

Should that be loser! As soon as Carlton are out of the running, could we do a trade with Richmond of all our experience for all their youth?
Manly were trading/sacking 14 players and coach for next season last week. Could get very ugly. Would not be able to identify with people on team, only "the team"

 

[Blue__Balls]

Carlton supporters eat our own as it is. Can you imagine what would happen if for example Yarran announced this week that he's going to West Coast? Boy howdy...

Would rather a mid-year mini-draft, with clubs able to call-up consenting players from the state leagues for the remainder of the year on a fixed payment system. Takes place during the clubs' bye rounds, no more than two players to be "drafted", who are contracted until the end of the season for $80k flat.

Draftee's club is compensated financially by the AFL or specific club (take your pick), or via support from the drafting club by way of development sessions hosted by players/coaches or some such.

 

[ShanDog]

Should that be loser! As soon as Carlton are out of the running, could we do a trade with Richmond of all our experience for all their youth?
Manly were trading/sacking 14 players and coach for next season last week. Could get very ugly. Would not be able to identify with people on team, only "the team"

Yeah that's the sad part of the way things are going. But I guess our club (and others in the AFL) are a little unique in the world of professional sporting clubs - we are some of the oldest football teams in existance. Pretty sure Melbourne is amongst the oldest 5 or 6 football teams of any codes, so perhaps we should already be aligning ourselves with the 'club above people' line of thinking anyway. Interesting stuff.

 

[ShanDog]

Would rather a mid-year mini-draft, with clubs able to call-up consenting players from the state leagues for the remainder of the year on a fixed payment system. Takes place during the clubs' bye rounds, no more than two players to be "drafted", who are contracted until the end of the season for $80k flat.

Draftee's club is compensated financially by the AFL or specific club (take your pick), or via support from the drafting club by way of development sessions hosted by players/coaches or some such.

I think these sort of systems are really good ideas that should be explored.

Thinking about a trading or drafting system mid-year, I'm not sure it will be as prevalent in reality as people imagine. Would be quite hard for a new player to come into a team halfway through a season and learn the team's playing style, strategies and gel with their teammates. I'd imagine their effectiveness would be minimal in the same year they switched teams and the clubs would be very aware of that.

 

[JustaBattler]

Yeah that's the sad part of the way things are going. But I guess our club (and others in the AFL) are a little unique in the world of professional sporting clubs - we are some of the oldest football teams in existance. Pretty sure Melbourne is amongst the oldest 5 or 6 football teams of any codes, so perhaps we should already be aligning ourselves with the 'club above people' line of thinking anyway. Interesting stuff.

I dont understand any other attitude - what is the alternative- swapping Club allegiances according to where your favorite player goes?

 

[ShanDog]

I dont understand any other attitude - what is the alternative- swapping Club allegiances according to where your favorite player goes?

Get what you are saying, but the whole reason we are supporters is because we have (or fabricate) an emotional connection to the club, so it's pretty natural that the same happens to individual stars of the team too. Doesn't mean the player should trump the club though, I agree.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I think these sort of options are really good ideas that should be explored.

Thinking about a trading or drafting system mid-year, I'm not sure it will be as prevalent as people imagine in reality. Would be quite hard for a new player to come into a team halfway through a season and learn the team's playing style, strategies and gel with their teammates. I'd imagine their effectiveness would be minimal in the same year they switched teams and the clubs would be very aware of that.

Exactly. As long as the cost is high enough, it would only ever be utilised by clubs who needed it - eg. West Coast's backline implodes and they need someone with the height to play as a tall defender, or Kreuzer gets injured the year after we delist Warnock, and we need ruck coverage for Wood for the remainder of the season.

Should be in place as an expensive last gasp stop-gap for injuries, rather than a free hit at an in-form state player.

 

[El Topo]

So should we go back to a free for all? Would mean players salaries increase, but clubs may collapse and the now big clubs would have most to gain. Interesting that NRL competition seems more competitive without these rules (lower clubs win more games).

Agree that free for all is a bad thing for the weaker clubs (now including us), but the draft is just one part of the wider system. Draft picks don't breed success without the right culture, environment and infrastructure.

You raise an interesting point though, NRL used to have something like a pre-season draft but it was successfully challenged as an unreasonable restraint of trade, the reason being that the advantage of lower picks is overrated. I think that the AFL draft system is a good thing but it's ultimately just a tool which is only as effective as the club and football department who seeks to use it.

Disagree. You've only gotta look at the rise of St Kilda, Melbourne and the Bulldogs to see that canny drafting can yield results. Hawthorn are still the pinnacle, but that won't last forever. The Saints are building a strong, competitive culture off the back of a few close wins and not much else. Jesse Hogan alone is giving the Dees something to aspire to, and they're starting to show signs of being much more competitive. Doggies are playing finals, and are even a chance for top 4!

Is more draft picks going to guarantee a rise up the ladder - of course not! It needs to be supported by a competent recruiting team, and a strong development group amongst the coaching staff. However you can't argue that getting more talented players into a club has zero impact on their improvement.

This is my bad for not expressing myself properly, but we're in total agreement. Draft picks are probably necessary for success but they're far from sufficient.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Rugby players announce their moves in the middle of the season and no one bats an eyelid (except me, * you Nick Phipps...sook)
It's just part of the game, and I guess because their salaries are so much lower than AFL players it's kind of expected that they'll go overseas at some point.

 

[thylacine60]

The continual "they do it in this code" is a thinking process that helps nurture the development of ours into something hybrid and barely recognizable.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

The continual "they do it in this code" is a thinking process that helps nurture the development of ours into something hybrid and barely recognizable.

I'm not saying we should do it, I just think it's an interesting comparison. I'd hate to see it come into the AFL, because I don't like it in rugby. It's odd to cheer for someone who is going to leave after the game...and they don't get much game time once the announcement has been made, anyway.

I probably didn't articulate it particularly well, but I wasn't saying it's a good thing, just different.

 

[BluesRule]

You raise an interesting point though, NRL used to have something like a pre-season draft but it was successfully challenged as an unreasonable restraint of trade, the reason being that the advantage of lower picks is overrated. I think that the AFL draft system is a good thing but it's ultimately just a tool which is only as effective as the club and football department who seeks to use it.

Hard to believe CFC is run worse than an NRL Club. But every team in the NRL has won at least 5 games, without AFL equalisation measures.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

This is a natural result of poor list management by us for 10 years and the dilution of the draft by expansion clubs.
Its a real political hotcake for the Comnmish, you can argue Brisbane deserve one for the sake of the game in Queensland, but we have wasted a lot of draft picks in recent times, getting a PP won't solve the fundamental issues of our current malaise.

No to us getting a PP from me (wouldn't give Brisbane one either but I won't be upset if they get one)

 

[Dramoth]

Carlton should invest in its own reserves/VFL team. and do it right. Both Geelong and Box Hill sides could probably beat any of the bottom 4 AFL sides right now...The AFl should reward Clubs for promoting the game at VFL level - and get rid of the fake academy BS where franchise Clubs up North benefit because of AFL funding - to teh exclusion of a lot of middling Melbourne Clubs.

It isn't an accident that Geelong and Hawthorn can get AFL standard players to plug gaps from their VFL squads.

This is pretty close to what I would like to see happen. The AFL controls the old VFA now anyway, after the VFA took over the VFL moniker.

In football (soccer to you guys) these days, sides are required to register 25 players at the start of the season and this is the total pool that they can use for games until the opening of the January transfer window, then the sides can come along and swap players in and out of the registered 25.

Maybe what the AFL could do is allow the clubs to have a total list of 50 players. 25 players registered for the senior squad, and 25 players registered for the state level leagues. This would allow a club to maintain a VFL/SANFL/WAFL or QLD/NSW league based team. Each of the sides could also recruit a further 20 players who are only listed for the state leagues and can't be used by the AFL sides.

 

[ShanDog]

The continual "they do it in this code" is a thinking process that helps nurture the development of ours into something hybrid and barely recognizable.

I believe they said the same thing after the first few games when someone suggested they shorten the field from several kilometres long and introduce some rules

 

[JustaBattler]

Get what you are saying, but the whole reason we are supporters is because we have (or fabricate) an emotional connection to the club, so it's pretty natural that the same happens to individual stars of the team too. Doesn't mean the player should trump the club though, I agree.

Yeah I agree- it hurts to see some favourite players looking like they are having to be traded...I hate the situation - but The Club has to do what it has to do - because of what it has and hasn't done in the past.

a real pisser of a situation.

 

[AceAndy]

I'm not saying we should do it, I just think it's an interesting comparison. I'd hate to see it come into the AFL, because I don't like it in rugby. It's odd to cheer for someone who is going to leave after the game...and they don't get much game time once the announcement has been made, anyway.

I probably didn't articulate it particularly well, but I wasn't saying it's a good thing, just different.

Not only players but coaching changes are known mid-season. I hope we never see that in our game.

 

[LordLucifer]

Is it time to bring back the priority pick for clubs who win less than 4 games?

Just get rid of Free Agency, that will sort out the problem.

 

[Carl Tone]

I'd like to consider a radical change for a 3 year block and then re-assess. Finish 9th and you get pick 1. Ninth position is almost in finals and needs a boost. Fringe teams in the current system bust a gut to get into finals, then just miss out and end up with pick #8 for their efforts. Teams wont tank from making finals to get pick 1 yet the 9th finishing team will be more competitive the following year. Teams lower than 9th but within reach of finishing 9th, who may be out of contention to sneak into the 8, will play harder in the last 4-5 games to snatch that pick.

Secondly, allocate picks #2 onwards after the completion of round 15. The top 8 will almost be decided. Then you have 7 rounds where teams in the bottom 6 will fight it out to avoid the wooden spoon. Low teams will pay for pride to avoid finishing last, as there will be no Pick #1 reward at season's end.

 

[El Topo]

I'd like to consider a radical change for a 3 year block and then re-assess. Finish 9th and you get pick 1. Ninth position is almost in finals and needs a boost. Fringe teams in the current system bust a gut to get into finals, then just miss out and end up with pick #8 for their efforts. Teams wont tank from making finals to get pick 1 yet the 9th finishing team will be more competitive the following year. Teams lower than 9th but within reach of finishing 9th, but may be out of contention to sneak into the 8, will play harder in the last 4-5 games to snatch that pick.

Secondly, allocate picks #2 onwards after the competition of round 15. The top will almost be decided. Then you have 7 rounds where teams in the bottom 6 will fight it out to avoid the wooden spoon. Low teams will pay for pride to avoid finishing last, as there will be no Pick #1 reward at season's end.

but Richmond would become unstoppable

 

[Bronze]

I say no. Some argue that the Priority Pick encourages tanking but even without it teams can still tank to get the number 1 pick instead of Pick 2 or 3. It seems that in this years draft, Pick 1 (Schache) and 2 (Weitering) are a level ahead of the rest.

 

[gandaal]

I actually agree with the old system.

Yes there was all that tanking nonsense the media crapped on about like a dog with a bone. However it allowed clubs to bounce back when they inevitably fall far quicker than the slow glacial improvement that bottom clubs enjoy at the moment. It gave supporters hope.

Right now there is no hope for clubs like Carlton, Brisbane and Melbourne. We're stuck in this permanent zone of total darkness at it worst and teasing twilight at its best. Clubs are stuck in the bottom 6 for 6 or 7 years while the top clubs are stuck on top for much longer.

I used to shake my head at people who followed the premier league. Why follow a competition where only 2 or 3 clubs can win? That's now the AFL and it's depressing.