Is it time for an Australian team in the IC

[Aucklander]

It's certainly possible for someone with an Aussie accent to play for a competing team at the IC. They could have been here for ten years but still have played some junior footy in their homeland.

I still hope one day the game is strong enough for players who are citizens of a certain country to be able to play for them despite having played their junior footy elsewhere.

Oh, please keep it civil to thanks.

 

[cos789]

It's certainly possible for someone with an Aussie accent to play for a competing team at the IC. They could have been here for ten years but still have played some junior footy in their homeland.

I know of quite a few examples where foreigners have come to Australia to further their football knowledge.
The (perceived) presence of an Australian accent could be quite legal or it could be a ring-in.
Certainly it's a very isolated case with no real importance.
There are international competitions that allow for a quota or measure of Australian participation.
That's the formula that those organisations have decided is optimum.
The overwhelming sentiment of the IC is fairness and some countries have voluntarily decided not to play some players just because they were technically eligible.

This has to change soon, maybe as soon as 2014, with the increasing number of international players playing in Australia, especially with the PNG having so many players following the AFL pathway.

I still hope one day the game is strong enough for players who are citizens of a certain country to be able to play for them despite having played their junior footy elsewhere.

At AFL level we could possibibly have an Australia Vs the World game.
It would be possible to have some sort of competition based on nationality but
construct that competition outside of the IC.
Obviously the Mediterranian countries would do well.

 

[cos789]

I agree with your post. Just...

However I am not sure how important the exposure is, having more people in Australia more aware of Danish AFL helps the Danes how exactly?

Exposure does help and because knowledge of Austalian Football outside of Australia is so scant there is very little interaction. Exposure can help in many ways. Clubs, players, umpires and tourists can open a dialogue.
There is an organisation formally establishing links between Australian and overseas clubs.
Teams can host teams or players or extend scholarships, mentor or supply resources.
Umpires and tourists can add games of footy to their itinery.
Sometimes the plain quirky can help.
Like, a Danish royal is Australian or Bartel is Danish and visits the DAFL.

There was an Australian womens team last time.

And that was a big mistake as you know as they supplied a token side when women's football is one arena that can compete toe to toe and provide valuable promotion. IMO the women's national championships need to be combined with the IC as there are a number of countries ready to take on Australia at state level.
Maybe they would get greater exposure because there was Australian sides competing -
interesting to find out.

 

[jatz14]

And that was a big mistake as you know as they supplied a token side when women's football is one arena that can compete toe to toe and provide valuable promotion. IMO the women's national championships need to be combined with the IC as there are a number of countries ready to take on Australia at state level.

Just had a look at some video posted on worldfooty news of the 2010 49th parallel cup between the USA and Canadian womens teams (the second and third best non Australian womens teams after Ireland). This comes after I watched some of the Womens National championships, and the U18 Girls Champs, and the womens round draft game.

The gap in standard is HUGE. Teams like Vic or WA would kick 40+ goals in a full length game against any of them. Comparing the 2 illustrates how far womens football has come, and what lays ahead for international football.

I had thought womens football offered the best opportunity for Australian teams to play full internationals in the foreseeable future, but I have changed my mind. I think the gap is to big, and in the medium term, will get much bigger. The gap in mens football is bigger, but is slowly (very) decreasing. For me a quick assessment is in the way the loose ball is approached. In the US or Canada, the players run to the ball, then slow, or even stop, in order to pick it up, then if they need to handball, they have to think through the process, which makes it slow and awkward. At womens national comp level in Australia, players hit the ball at pace, and dispose instinctively

International womens football is a reminder of what Australian womens football was like in the first few years after it started. Players were keen, but had started playing as adults and lacked an instinct for the game. In WA, they started a youth girls comp in Perth this year, and initially hoped for 4 teams, they ended up with 8. So they now have girls going from Ozkick, to mixed junior comps, to a city wide girls league, then to a 2 division open competition.

Over the next 5 years, womens teams will fill up with young women who have been playing and training in an organised fashion since they were 5 or 6. We will then have a situation where a state team player will have played 100+ games, attended 100s of training sessions and received countless hours of instruction before they ever played a senior game. At the same time, players coming into the game overseas will be 20 - 30, have never played before, will play relatively few, relatively poor quality games, and if they have natural athletic ability of any sort, they will end up in the national team.

They cannot remotely compete, and unless they can find a way to get people involved younger, it will get worse, even allowing for improvement. Men face the same issues with the difference that the mens comps in Australia are mature, and not likely to achieve dramatic quality improvements

 

[cos789]

Just had a look at some video posted on worldfooty news of the 2010 49th parallel cup between the USA and Canadian womens teams (the second and third best non Australian womens teams after Ireland). This comes after I watched some of the Womens National championships, and the U18 Girls Champs, and the womens round draft game.

The gap in standard is HUGE. Teams like Vic or WA would kick 40+ goals in a full length game against any of them. Comparing the 2 illustrates how far womens football has come, and what lays ahead for international football.

I had thought womens football offered the best opportunity for Australian teams to play full internationals in the foreseeable future, but I have changed my mind. I think the gap is to big, and in the medium term, will get much bigger. The gap in mens football is bigger, but is slowly (very) decreasing. For me a quick assessment is in the way the loose ball is approached. In the US or Canada, the players run to the ball, then slow, or even stop, in order to pick it up, then if they need to handball, they have to think through the process, which makes it slow and awkward. At womens national comp level in Australia, players hit the ball at pace, and dispose instinctively

International womens football is a reminder of what Australian womens football was like in the first few years after it started. Players were keen, but had started playing as adults and lacked an instinct for the game. In WA, they started a youth girls comp in Perth this year, and initially hoped for 4 teams, they ended up with 8. So they now have girls going from Ozkick, to mixed junior comps, to a city wide girls league, then to a 2 division open competition.

Over the next 5 years, womens teams will fill up with young women who have been playing and training in an organised fashion since they were 5 or 6. We will then have a situation where a state team player will have played 100+ games, attended 100s of training sessions and received countless hours of instruction before they ever played a senior game. At the same time, players coming into the game overseas will be 20 - 30, have never played before, will play relatively few, relatively poor quality games, and if they have natural athletic ability of any sort, they will end up in the national team.

They cannot remotely compete, and unless they can find a way to get people involved younger, it will get worse, even allowing for improvement. Men face the same issues with the difference that the mens comps in Australia are mature, and not likely to achieve dramatic quality improvements

You make some assute points, but IMO it's not quite so drastic.
There is a difference in the Australian sides.
Worst case scenario is to have a divisional structure.

 

[greatfox]

Why not stage an additional game after the final, pitting the IC cup winner against an Australian team?

 

[cos789]

Why not stage an additional game after the final, pitting the IC cup winner against an Australian team?

Yes, it's already been suggested.
It's a big commitment for teams to come to Australia so they should get as much out of it as possible
by involved with and playing against australian sides.

 

[Putney Magpies]

Never!!!!

 

[cos789]

In an interesting development an u18 VAFA side played two hames againast a NZ u18s side
not an older NZ side as has been customery.
Yes, the Australian side won comfortably but the Kiwis were not wiped off the park being outscored roughly two goals to their one.

 

[saviour01]

Yes, the Australian side won comfortably but the Kiwis were not wiped off the park being outscored roughly two goals to their one.

4 goals to 15

roughly 1 goal to 4 by my maths

 

[jatz14]

4 goals to 15

roughly 1 goal to 4 by my maths

16 goals to 7 and 16 goals to 8. A total of 32 goals to 15 over 2 games. Not sure where your figures are from. Scoring 15 goals in 2 games against a rep Vic team, even if it is just an amateur team is a fair effort.

 

[jatz14]

Also, a youth girls team played against NZ at the same time. This team came from the girls high performance academy and therefore represented some of the cream of Australian girls footy, so they did wipe them off the park (261 point win the first game), but that was to be expected for a first game, baby steps.

 

[cos789]

16 goals to 7 and 16 goals to 8. A total of 32 goals to 15 over 2 games. Not sure where your figures are from. Scoring 15 goals in 2 games against a rep Vic team, even if it is just an amateur team is a fair effort.

Thanks for that- roughly two goals to one as stated.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Do you follow AFL players in the WAFL, SANFL, VFL, TFL or NEAFL?

Onteresting question, given that last IC two South Africans played for South Launceston in the TSL until the IC. They did OK at level as well, not starring but holding their spots consistently and snagging a few goals along the way. And a couple played WAFL reserves the IC before that.
They were South African citizens resident in South Africa though, and on short term deals in Australia.

 

[cos789]

Onteresting question, given that last IC two South Africans played for South Launceston in the TSL until the IC. They did OK at level as well, not starring but holding their spots consistently and snagging a few goals along the way. And a couple played WAFL reserves the IC before that.
They were South African citizens resident in South Africa though, and on short term deals in Australia.

During the 2011 IC was in Sydney so I only heard about the RSA side that contributed a handfull of players to the Swan Districts reserves and colts sides and played a game I believe.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

cos789 http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20110228221210681
I think they both played every game for the Bulldogs up until they left for the IC.

I didn't know this, but apparently a third South African played for South Lonny in 2012.

It does open up a question with IC eligibility. At what point, if ever, should a player be deemed to have too much Australian experience for the IC? Should it be completely open? Or open, so long as they have played the bulk of their footy outside Australia? Or should playing in a state league, or maybe only a major state league which the TSL certainly is not, disqualify a player?

 

[jatz14]

One of the primary goals of the IC is player and competition development. There have been a number of Americans and British players come and play in various regional comps in Australia, some Canadians as well I believe. Not to mention PNG, and Nauru. To say that if you get to much experience in Australia you become ineligible to play in what is a development tournament is contradictory. A disincentive to advance your skills, and keeps the best players out of the tournament.

An artificial limit on experience isn't necessary I think because so far the natural limit works fine. What I mean is that the likes of Mike Pike, Eric Wallace, the rookie listed NZers etc do not play in the IC. Foreign players with prospects of advancing professional careers are not going to interrupt a season to play amateurs in the IC.

If Mike wants to play for Canada after his career, he should be free to. Amateurs and vets has quite a number of ex professional players, do not see why the IC cannot as well.

 

[cos789]

It does open up a question with IC eligibility.

Not at all. The IC has strict eligibilty.

At what point, if ever, should a player be deemed to have too much Australian experience for the IC?

There has been the odd elite player that has not been selected by his country because he was not actively competing in that country's league and that's what I perceive most countries are interested in atm.

 

[cos789]

If Mike wants to play for Canada after his career, he should be free to.

As I understand it, Mike Pike and the Irish AFL players would play for Australia as their first experience of AR is in Australia.
The country most affected is the PNG where there are lots of eligible players currently in Australia.
NZ has a few as well as the RSA. Previously, Britain and the USA had eligible players in the WAFL.
A few other players come to Australia to further their experience.

 

[cos789]

Just had a look at some video posted on worldfooty news of the 2010 49th parallel cup between the USA and Canadian womens teams (the second and third best non Australian womens teams after Ireland). This comes after I watched some of the Womens National championships, and the U18 Girls Champs, and the womens round draft game.

The gap in standard is HUGE.

Having watched the WAWFL GF I'd say some international teams are equivalent to some WAWFL clubs.
It's quite possible there would be some big defeats but not outrageously big.

 

[jatz14]

Having watched the WAWFL GF I'd say some international teams are equivalent to some WAWFL clubs.
It's quite possible there would be some big defeats but not outrageously big.

Gap best to worst within the WAWFL is huge, comp sees regular 30+ goal thrashings. This in itself is an indication, because overseas womens games usually are low scoring, due to the rolling maul style of play. WAWFL teams can get up towards 40 goals in a game because when they get on top against weak teams, they have the skills to move the ball and score fast.

An international team may be competitive against a weak WAWFL team, or more realistically a mid range to weak WAWFL 2nd div team, but that still leaves them miles of the pace. The big difference is that the ongoing development in youth girls football gives a pipeline of talent into the WAWFL (and VWFL etc) that is likely to see standards rise across the board over the next 3-5 years.

 

[jatz14]

That all said, it is all guess work at this stage. VWFL team VU St Albans spurs are attempting to send a team to the US next year, so it will be interesting to see how they go.

 

[The_Wookie]

As I understand it, Mike Pike and the Irish AFL players would play for Australia as their first experience of AR is in Australia.
The country most affected is the PNG where there are lots of eligible players currently in Australia.
NZ has a few as well as the RSA. Previously, Britain and the USA had eligible players in the WAFL.
A few other players come to Australia to further their experience.

Having just interviewed the president of the ARFLI, he was saying that 9 players for Ireland in the last cup were based in Sydney, playing for the UTS Bats. Evidently the ARFLI and UTS have good ties.

Its also worth noting that Port Adelaide signing, Daniel Flynn played Australian footy before coming here - his first games of Australian football were in Ireland this season playing for North Leinster. Evidently he anticipated being drafted (he played Gaelic for Kildare) and spent this season in the ARFLI honing his skills ahead of being selected.

 

[cos789]

Its also worth noting that Port Adelaide signing, Daniel Flynn played Australian footy before coming here - his first games of Australian football were in Ireland this season playing for North Leinster. Evidently he anticipated being drafted (he played Gaelic for Kildare) and spent this season in the ARFLI honing his skills ahead of being selected.

I would imagine he's one of the exceptions and could play for Ireland.

Having just interviewed the president of the ARFLI, he was saying that 9 players for Ireland in the last cup were based in Sydney, playing for the UTS Bats. Evidently the ARFLI and UTS have good ties.

I don't know how that works.
Is it because they didn't play junior football in Australia?
Surely they wouldn't have all played football before they came out.

 

[Morten Nielsen]

I agree with your post. Just...



Exposure does help and because knowledge of Austalian Football outside of Australia is so scant there is very little interaction. Exposure can help in many ways. Clubs, players, umpires and tourists can open a dialogue.
There is an organisation formally establishing links between Australian and overseas clubs.
Teams can host teams or players or extend scholarships, mentor or supply resources.
Umpires and tourists can add games of footy to their itinery.
Sometimes the plain quirky can help.
Like, a Danish royal is Australian or Bartel is Danish and visits the DAFL.

It is not important but Jimmy Bartel is not Danish he just had a Danish girlfriend a few years back, i would love to be able to call him a fellow dane, specially after he invited a Danish junior team down to Skilled Stadium in Geelong, during a visit planned by the Farum Cats, he then ran a tranning session with them really great of him and the boys loved it.