Thought that Crameri looked at his most dangerous with the freedom to roam in a side with Hurley and Daniher. No surprise there as he was clearly playing a more anciliary role behind Hurley and Derp. On last night's form, the flanker and partial midfield rotation does not look beyond Crameri which is important because it allows us to just add Bellchambers.
Review Is our forward line dysfunctional?
- Thread starter smcateer
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people seem to have this weird idea that we can just stick ryder and tbc together and that's that but after 3 odd seasons of that not being simple as........
I have no issue with playing Hurley/Carlisle, JD and resting ruckman up forward. Strong preference for Carlisle forward in this structure, Hurley for mine would be a very effective third forward but he doesn't really work as a primary target. TRB seem to think differently however so doesn't look like happening.
Regardless, I'm convinced that playing JD as a second genuine KPP is the key to our forward line. Importantly, the way Crameri played on Saturday night shows he can play "small" genuine HFF, meaning this structure wont make us top-heavy.
Regardless, I'm convinced that playing JD as a second genuine KPP is the key to our forward line. Importantly, the way Crameri played on Saturday night shows he can play "small" genuine HFF, meaning this structure wont make us top-heavy.
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Can someone clear this up for me. Is Hurley running underneath the ball too much, or are the midfielders kicking it over his head?
quotemokc
Brownlow Medallist
He tries to take in on his chest too much
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
running under the ball. Everyone can agree that Goddard is an absolute gun of a kick and he's not hitting him on the lead
Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
There's about a billion of these I could bump (I suggest amalgamating them into the general bullshit forward line superthread), but this is still the big issue, not just a big issue. We're going absolutely nowhere until this is rectified.
You look at the difference between the saints and us today and it's night and day, and these blokes finished 18th last year, have probably the worst skills in the league and are without Nick Riewoldt...like, if the goal is to make it so the whole adds up to significantly less than the sum of it's parts we're doing really well.
Think Bruce is a good example to look at, I don't rate him one bit, but when it's put on a plate for him like that it really doesn't matter who he's playing on he's good for 4 shots on goal a game easily because all he has to do is run at the footy and puff his chest out. It's the most efficient and most common way to kick your goals for a reason, because it's the easiest, and the reason we're struggling to kick scores is because we don't do it nearly enough.
Why it's happening I can't say, but I'm absolutely fed up with the lack of movement and the subsequent long ball bullshit, Langford almost picks himself for the next 10 years on the back of that, he made two leads.
You look at the difference between the saints and us today and it's night and day, and these blokes finished 18th last year, have probably the worst skills in the league and are without Nick Riewoldt...like, if the goal is to make it so the whole adds up to significantly less than the sum of it's parts we're doing really well.
Think Bruce is a good example to look at, I don't rate him one bit, but when it's put on a plate for him like that it really doesn't matter who he's playing on he's good for 4 shots on goal a game easily because all he has to do is run at the footy and puff his chest out. It's the most efficient and most common way to kick your goals for a reason, because it's the easiest, and the reason we're struggling to kick scores is because we don't do it nearly enough.
Why it's happening I can't say, but I'm absolutely fed up with the lack of movement and the subsequent long ball bullshit, Langford almost picks himself for the next 10 years on the back of that, he made two leads.
table tennis
Bigfooty class clown
Our slow running and ball movement through the middle continues to kill our forwards.
We then get in a mess and bomb to a spot where our forwards have made thier way back to after repeated leading, against 2-1 opposition ratio.
We need some line breaking zip. Colyer is our only genuine quick mid. Everyone else is average or slow.
St.Kilda killed us for speed on transition. The hit ground balls at speed, we on the other hand, were slow and fumbled and flat footed.
This causes hesitation and extra numbers and less space to lead into.
Attack is set up from defence. If players lead into certain spots and are 30% chance of winning the footy, but the turn over may open up the ground, then players are reluctant to hit certain area's.
I think we sort out the midfield, which has been annihilated 3 weeks running, and the forward line would work fine.
Forward line was fine against the hawks......
We then get in a mess and bomb to a spot where our forwards have made thier way back to after repeated leading, against 2-1 opposition ratio.
We need some line breaking zip. Colyer is our only genuine quick mid. Everyone else is average or slow.
St.Kilda killed us for speed on transition. The hit ground balls at speed, we on the other hand, were slow and fumbled and flat footed.
This causes hesitation and extra numbers and less space to lead into.
Attack is set up from defence. If players lead into certain spots and are 30% chance of winning the footy, but the turn over may open up the ground, then players are reluctant to hit certain area's.
I think we sort out the midfield, which has been annihilated 3 weeks running, and the forward line would work fine.
Forward line was fine against the hawks......
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Our forwards standing around doing nothing is killing our forwards.
Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
problem with that is that's very much the exception to the rule, and we still only kicked 80 odd points despite plenty of marks inside 50. The norm of recent years has become us dominating possession and bombing the ball forward like headless chooks.
Rarely does it look like we've got any sort of system
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Probably as a result of not many taking the game on. Today Hurley and Colyer did this and we looked good in those rare passages. Need more of this. Players we have in vfl who can take the game on quickly include Edwards and Fantasia. I think we need at least one of these given a chance to improve this area (even if just as a sub)
Doss
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I think seeing Langford actually go for some running leads banged it home for me. Our forward line is far too static; put simply, they don't move enough.
It's trying to figure out why that is which is the hard part. And it's got to be related to a lack of cohesion with the midfield.
It's trying to figure out why that is which is the hard part. And it's got to be related to a lack of cohesion with the midfield.
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Its been the same under 2 different coaches aswell now. Maybe its personnel related.
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I suspect there is method to the madness, but getting it all to hang together on game day is going to come down to experience and forward craft. JD and JC have so little experience between them that its not hard to see why we might struggle! I just hope it clicks sometime this year which might give us a shot in the finals...
Doss
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That's kind of the thing, though. JC is not that inexperienced anymore. Although I do concede he is still reasonably green in terms of how long he's been playing forward.
yaco55
Hall of Famer
Running at 39% scores per forward entry - Have this figure at the end of the year and we will set a new record.
Coaches need to tweak our game plan - The team could sleep walk and we'll still concede less than 100 points - Have conceded 100 points twice in our last 28 games and that was a result of freakish kicking - We could release the defensive shackles and still have a very competitive defence.
Coaches need to tweak our game plan - The team could sleep walk and we'll still concede less than 100 points - Have conceded 100 points twice in our last 28 games and that was a result of freakish kicking - We could release the defensive shackles and still have a very competitive defence.
I find myself continually cursing the midfield for just another long bomb into f50. I ask this question as someone who has been unable to attend a game this year and unable to see the 'full picture' that tv can't provide,
but do JC/JD work hard enough?
I always thought it was slow movement or poor decision making by our mids. But majority of the time, when its pumped long JD/JC are flat footed and engaged with a defender. It's like they are not confident enough to lead AT the ball carrier and take it out in front.
Watching essendon v wce from 2004, lloydy presented strongly AT the ball carrier and demanded the ball out in front then CLUNK! If JC/JD led like that, not only would it suite their strengths imo, but it would open up space for ambrose/langford and hopefully create a 1 on 1 with the other key fwd if that's a better option. There just seems to be none of that.
Was good to see ambrose present whilst in the f50 and langford find some space. And if we are to bomb it in, rather then put it on their heads, put it up away from them so they can attack and jump at the ball. Because wrestling an opponent waiting for the ball to land on their heads does not suite JC/JD. Both these boys will be untouchable if they can launch at the ball unimpeded.
but do JC/JD work hard enough?
I always thought it was slow movement or poor decision making by our mids. But majority of the time, when its pumped long JD/JC are flat footed and engaged with a defender. It's like they are not confident enough to lead AT the ball carrier and take it out in front.
Watching essendon v wce from 2004, lloydy presented strongly AT the ball carrier and demanded the ball out in front then CLUNK! If JC/JD led like that, not only would it suite their strengths imo, but it would open up space for ambrose/langford and hopefully create a 1 on 1 with the other key fwd if that's a better option. There just seems to be none of that.
Was good to see ambrose present whilst in the f50 and langford find some space. And if we are to bomb it in, rather then put it on their heads, put it up away from them so they can attack and jump at the ball. Because wrestling an opponent waiting for the ball to land on their heads does not suite JC/JD. Both these boys will be untouchable if they can launch at the ball unimpeded.
Not always possible to lead. Sometimes it needs to be kicked in to a contest. Our forwards are good enough to bring the ball down.
We just don't have good enough natural small forwards to swoop on it or if opposition get it to swoop on them.
We just don't have good enough natural small forwards to swoop on it or if opposition get it to swoop on them.
i've long been operating on this basis. if off the rebound, we can't get over the back off the defence - that is, they slow us down and prevent that - we'll bomb it into a pocket so we can lock it in via a boundary throw in etc.
It's not like Thompson was an outsider and so came with a new game plan
Whispering_Jack
Norm Smith Medallist
No, but he had the chance to change things and tweak the gameplan to improve the forward line efficiency. If anything, we went backwards last year in forward line efficiency.
With the tweaking it would take to score we'll start conceding. The team is largely incapable of the transitional running to do both well.
Defence keeps you in more games than attack does.
yaco55
Hall of Famer
We can afford to concede an extra 2 goals a game if it allows to score an extra 4 goals per game. AS it stands we cant win a premiership with our current forward scoring patterns, but can win a premiership with out current defensive scoring patterns.
You have to be brave to get ahead.
Does anyone feel that Hurley really straightens us up when he's forward?
