Is the jigsaw puzzle complete & if not what price to pay ?

Discussion in 'West Coast Eagles' started by BOND 007, Apr 10, 2012.

Put it out there
  1. thorne89

    thorne89 Moderator

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Everton, Perth Demons
    Joined:
    Apr 09
    Posts:
    20,102
    Location:
    Straight Sets
    Agree with this. :thumbsu:

    Gaff will be underrated through his whole career simply because he isn't flashy like Bennell. Doesn't make him a lesser player.

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  2. SpaceClef

    SpaceClef All Australian

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    May 11
    Posts:
    3,926
    Location:
    My Goodness Maginness
    I would be surprised if, say we had pick 2 instead of 4 in the '10 draft, we went with Gaff over Bennell. And that's taking into account Gaff would still have been a safer pick.

    Not that fussed if i'm wrong though. Gaff will be a great player and GC will be doing very well if they can retain their young talent. It's great to see that Hunt and Bennell have forged a bond from living together.

    I'd almost rather Bennell settles in and does well at GC rather than us recruit him on the back of him being depressed/etc.
  3. DivideandMultiply

    DivideandMultiply Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Sep 08
    Posts:
    16,820
    Location:
    Between the lines.
    Reactionary or simply recognition?

    Bennell is a different player to Hill, he works hard both ways and can win his own ball or do well in tight contested situations.
  4. DivideandMultiply

    DivideandMultiply Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Sep 08
    Posts:
    16,820
    Location:
    Between the lines.
    Lacks Bennells speed, strength, agility, defensive ability and finishing skills (despite Gaff being a neat and clever kick).

    Chalking it up to being "flashy" reeks of bias.
  5. tesseract

    tesseract Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Perth Wildcats, Swan Districts
    Joined:
    Feb 09
    Posts:
    8,595
    Location:
    Perth
    WC wouldn't give up Gaff even if that's what Bennell is worth.

    WC should only trade for Bennell if they can convince him to nominate WC only as his desired destination. That would lower Bennell's trade value enough to not have to give up someone like Gaff, who WC would consider untradeable unless he wanted out.

    Just as WC took whatever Port reasonably had to offer, GC would be in a similar situation if Bennell did as Brad Ebert did in nominating his desired destination.
    Given that GC would be in a no-win situation if Bennell selected WC, WC need not offer Gaff given such an immense bargaining advantage.

    Brown / Stevens / Swift + 1st rounder is a real possibility. If GC hold a grudge into the future regarding trading, that's their prerogative. GC have no choice unless they stubbornly throw Bennell into the PSD and receive nothing for him. WC wouldn't have to pay market value and make this trade fair.

    Even in the Judd trade, WC were offered Kennedy, who was a no-one at the time, only potential, and the best picks Carlton were willing to part with. WC won't even have to pay as much as that, as Bennell isn't a superstar. WC can offer potential, like one of the 3 named, plus the best pick they have to offer. GC would be in no position to demand anything.
    GC can't argue with the pick, as it's the best WC have to offer. Given WC's bargaining advantage, a player on their untradeable list wouldn't have to be given up.

    This trade happens on WC's terms or not at all. Without the advantage of Bennell nominating WC, WC would be giving up Gaff + ..., that's unacceptable.
    WC need to show some killer instinct and headhunt Bennell, not just play wait and see what eventuates.
  6. thekelvin

    thekelvin Team Captain

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Paris Saint-Germain
    Joined:
    Jul 10
    Posts:
    903
    Location:
    Paris
    Mitch Clark says hi.
    This only works in theory.
    Being cocky ad unfair like this will see someone else get him. Just ask Freo.
    Do you honestly think the other clubs care that he has nominated one club over another for a potential superstar?

    Also we're all getting a bit carrier away. Gaff Has proven to play consistently good football.
    Bennel has had one freak game.
    He's just like Cyril, bets and frankin etc (make of that what you will) - can have a freak game every now and then and can go ahead and stink it up for the next few.

    I would be very careful about what you risk in a trade for a player like that.
  7. gurncentral

    gurncentral Senior List

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Sep 11
    Posts:
    322
    How is he just like Cyril, Betts and Franklin? He plays midfield.
  8. Shupe

    Shupe Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Indianapolis Colts
    Joined:
    Jun 11
    Posts:
    9,666
    Location:
    Perth
    I agree that Bennell is a different player to the likes of Hill and Cyril. This should lead him to having a little more consistency than those two.
    Somebody said up above that Bennell is more consistent than Gaff? What are you smoking? It would be a pretty safe bet that Gaff gets 20+ disposals in the majority (if not all) of his games this year. That cant be said for Bennell who has had games of 19,13 and 17 this year. Yes 20 of his touches are better than 20 of Gaffs, but that consistency isnt there at the moment.

    I think that Bennell will be a superstar. I think that Gaff is already well on his to way to becoming a superstar. A trade Gaff for Bennell wont happen. The only way we get Bennell is if he wants to come home and nominates WCE. Then we can pay slightly unders.

    I know most are just saying it would take someone of Gaffs ability - but I dont think so, because of the above situation. So lets stop talking about trading Gaff, its making me mad :)
  9. Kaboodleer

    Kaboodleer Team Captain

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Aug 10
    Posts:
    607
    He could stagnate I suppose but I doubt it. That was one of the best individual performances I can remember seeing from a young player and one of the best from any player this season. It's not like he had a freak game where he kicked a couple nice goals. He worked hard all game, showed poise, brilliant disposal, leadership and won his own ball. Would never trade Gaff for him but if there is any reasonable way to get him we should go for it.

    I don't think GC would have any interest in Swift. They may have a little bit in Stevens if he comes into seniors at some point in plays well but he's yet to do that. Brown should hold more value as a big KPD which is something they need. I think we'd have to do something like Brown and find a way to upgrade our first round pick so it's a bit higher. It will be a very expensive trade if it gets done which of course begs the question if it would be worth it given that this is meant to be a very strong draft.
  10. Shupe

    Shupe Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Indianapolis Colts
    Joined:
    Jun 11
    Posts:
    9,666
    Location:
    Perth
    Harley Bennell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pick #16-18

    Would not hestitate in giving up our first pick in this supposedly strong draft, considering it would be right at the end of 1st round.
  11. thekelvin

    thekelvin Team Captain

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Paris Saint-Germain
    Joined:
    Jul 10
    Posts:
    903
    Location:
    Paris
    If you had continued reading, you would discover I was referring to his inconsistency like the others.

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  12. Eastern Rangers

    Eastern Rangers BFSC Platinum

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Royals & Subi
    Joined:
    Aug 06
    Posts:
    20,414
    Location:
    Perth
    It's a great shame it doesn't work like that and I'd be surprised if we ended up with a pick on that side of 20.
  13. gurncentral

    gurncentral Senior List

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Sep 11
    Posts:
    322
    He's kicked 11 goals in 6 games this season. He's averaged over 20 disposals. He plays midfield, whereas Cyril, Franklin and Betts spend most of their time up forward. He's in his second season. Cyril is in his fifth, Franklin is in his eighth, Betts is in his eighth.

    He's been very consistent this year, especially for someone in his second year in the AFL. I still don't see why you're comparing him to those three players.
  14. Shupe

    Shupe Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Indianapolis Colts
    Joined:
    Jun 11
    Posts:
    9,666
    Location:
    Perth
    Please enlighten :confused:. Didn't know the draft was compromised this year?

    EDIT: Is it because of the new priority pick situation where AFL determines who gets them and when? Meaning they might offer GC/GWS/Melb another high pick? Or because of compo picks eg. Melbourne activating theirs and getting two low picks?
  15. Kaboodleer

    Kaboodleer Team Captain

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Aug 10
    Posts:
    607
    Hopefully AFL wont give out PPs since GC and GWS really don't need them and will likey be last. Compo picks will push our pick back, quite a few to be activated.
  16. the harry

    the harry Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Sep 07
    Posts:
    7,882
    Location:
    Melbs
    Melbourne have activated compo pics which would essentially give them 3 in the first 15 or so? Is that right? A mid first round and one after their first rounder.

    That bumps the flag winner to pic 20. Don't know if anyone else has activated theirs..... Geelong might have one left?

    Either way, we would need to give up at least a top 10 pick and a player for Benell I'd say. He was a top 3 pick just 18 months ago and he's only got better.
  17. dajesmac

    dajesmac Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Perth Demons
    Joined:
    Aug 09
    Posts:
    11,548
    Location:
    Perth
    Bennell has to this point and IMO will be from this point, less consistent than Gaff. Therein lies Gaff's value.

    I don't necessarily think Gaff is better, but talk of 'Gaff and a pick' for Bennell is a bad call, even speaking hypothetically.
  18. King Of The Hille

    King Of The Hille Team Captain

    Essendon
    Other teams:
    Tier 1 poster
    Joined:
    May 09
    Posts:
    3,731
    Location:
    The North
    Neither of these would be enough, especially the Bennell trade.

    You'd have to move heaven and earth before you got Bennell for a pick in the mid to late teens and Stevens who's barely done anything since arriving at WC.

    Would need two 1st round picks to prize Bennell away from Metricon.
  19. tesseract

    tesseract Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Perth Wildcats, Swan Districts
    Joined:
    Feb 09
    Posts:
    8,595
    Location:
    Perth
    Mitch Clark doesn't say hi. How that trade transpired is different from what I'm proposing. It doesn't only work in theory, as displayed by the Brad Ebert example I've provided.

    Cockiness is irrelevant. What WC received for Ebert was less than fair value; it was due to the bargaining advantage Port held over WC. WC can play the same game and hold the same advantage, just as my post you've quoted shows.

    As we've seen before, if a player is determined to get to a certain club, it usually occurs. Other clubs show reluctance in picking up such players. Bennell is coming out of contract, so GC have a further weakened bargaining position, as they can't demand anything as Bennell can walk into the PSD for nothing if GC don't solely negotiate with WC.

    I'm not getting carried away at all. What I've said is real possibility if WC can persuade Bennell to play for WC.
    Discussion of how Gaff's currently playing is irrelevant. Just because WC have Gaff, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be pursuing other talented players.
    Bennell's talent is known and has been displayed before his last game. So, I'm not basing my want of Bennell solely on his last game. I wanted to see him at WC 2 years ago.

    Bennell's inconsistent because he's young.

    Yes, WC should be careful what they offer up for trade, but there are ways to make a tradeable player a willing participant in being traded.
  20. tesseract

    tesseract Club Legend

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Perth Wildcats, Swan Districts
    Joined:
    Feb 09
    Posts:
    8,595
    Location:
    Perth
    The scenario I posed suggests coercing Bennell to select WC alone as his desired destination. That forces GC to deal WC and no-one else. That's where WC gets the enormous leverage to make such a deal happen. Both the Ebert and Judd trades show likewise.

    Under the circumstances I've proposed, I don't believe two 1st round picks will be required, as WC has them over a barrel. In such a situation, market value isn't required to be paid in return.
  21. Double the Fist

    Double the Fist BIGFOOTIES CRAZY ASS KGB DESPOT

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Being an a$$hole
    Joined:
    Dec 08
    Posts:
    14,475
    Location:
    Moscow
  22. Alexwce

    Alexwce Senior List

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Apr 11
    Posts:
    1,559
    Location:
    Shoalwater, WA
    If Goodard or Moloney came not sure either would play in the guts. Kerr, Priddis, Scooter and Shuey have a lot more value at centre clearances than either of them. To be fair, Maloney might not even be in our starting line up. Maloney would be a perfect fit for Essendon.

    Goodard is a star and would be a massive asset to any team. Don't think we would play him in the middle though.
  23. Lyyynnnchy

    Lyyynnnchy All Australian

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Joined:
    Oct 07
    Posts:
    5,586
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria
    Bennell has signed to the end of 2014
  24. Double the Fist

    Double the Fist BIGFOOTIES CRAZY ASS KGB DESPOT

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Being an a$$hole
    Joined:
    Dec 08
    Posts:
    14,475
    Location:
    Moscow
    Good reply. However, Shue Scooter are not big and brutish enough to provide that intimidating protection Kerr needs.
    Look at how Geelong looked after GAJ. The whole team made life unbearable for the tagger. We just don't do it.
    So I was really after a wrecking ball in the guts.:thumbsu:
  25. pantskyle

    pantskyle óÔÔò ʕ·͡ᴥ·ʔ óÔÔò

    West Coast
    Other teams:
    Storm-Man Utd-Heart-Luton-Patriots
    Joined:
    Oct 07
    Posts:
    55,537
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Either Moloney or Goddard would be a good pickup.