Is this the end of the Greens?

[Max zero]

How many times to people have to acknowledge that stopping the boards have stopped the deaths? I don't think that you will find one poster that doesn't think that is a good thing. But why do posters still continually bring it up? When people died off Christmas Island it was heart breaking as was what I thought was the children overboard situation.
Everyone acknowledges this and at the same time why some are not concerned about the two deaths in detention which has happened in the past 12 months or the reported concerns about the emotional/mental harm, lack of appropriate medical care that is happening now?
When you try ti discuss these things the response is always, what about the drownings, people smugglers, or lack of documentation of illegals.
This is why I support the Greens are they are they only ones still asking the questions of what is happening now.

That's the thing people don't acknowledge it. Why did it happen? Who was responsible? How do we fix it? How do we prevent it from happening again?

These questions get asked about the CURRENT situation all the time. You are even asking in this very post. Where was this concern several years ago?

 

[Max zero]

No one could feel ok about the loss of life that occurred from those poorly implemented policies. But we have new policies now and can't undo the past.
Time to consider the best ways to help those who are still here.
And as you say, its a global problem, but our current gov't doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that, judging by its policies.

We can't undo the past but we can repeat it.

 

[Maggie5]

That's the thing people don't acknowledge it. Why did it happen? Who was responsible? How do we fix it? How do we prevent it from happening again?

These questions get asked about the CURRENT situation all the time. You are even asking in this very post. Where was this concern several years ago?

The concern has always been there for caring people.
I am asking the question because I don't think they are being addressed by current policies and this government and apart from a few posters, not many care.

 

[Grin]

I will give you your due , you walk the walk, but i still think you are a soft touch.

A very old myth perpetuated by the mean of spirit and tight of wallet.

 

[Maggie5]

We can't undo the past but we can repeat it.

We can't undo the past but we sure can do better about the present.

 

[Grin]

Of I see you didn't see all of Grin's posts because they got deleted by the mods. I would of preferred if they had left them up then you would of gotten a clearer idea as to the 'quality' of the conversation.

I notice you are playing personality politics as usual though Maggie5.

Do you want to discuss the refugees or do you want to discuss other posters?

It's true I responded with anger to the ridiculous and offensive assertions and straw man arguments that I am personally responsible for the deaths of children.

This argument is made by people who cannot accept a position that we should find approaches to this issue that doesn't involve abusing children.

 

[sherb]

people who give money to overseas charities and state life is fine in this country, would have to be amongst the most ignorant. It is of no coincedence they seem adept at lecturing others and changing the subject when confronted over it.

Your 'humanatarian' efforts are ego driven, nothing else.

Wow.

 

[sherb]

A very old myth perpetuated by the mean of spirit and tight of wallet.

Soft touch = the term used by many in a derisive fashion towards those displaying human decency and compassion.

Very similar in usage to the term "bleeding heart".

 

[Max zero]

It's true I responded with anger to the ridiculous and offensive assertions and straw man arguments that I am personally responsible for the deaths of children.

This argument is made by people who cannot accept a position that we should find approaches to this issue that doesn't involve abusing children.

As opposed to the very strawmen you used in the first place that got deleted?

You start fires Grin then get upset when you get a little heat back.

If you actually want to discuss the issues instead of saying people support child abuse then feel free to do so.

 

[Max zero]

We can't undo the past but we sure can do better about the present.

And one of the best ways to do that is to keep the Rudd policies from being reenacted (with support from the Greens I might add).

 

[Grin]

As opposed to the very strawmen you used in the first place that got deleted?

You start fires Grin then get upset when you get a little heat back.

If you actually want to discuss the issues instead of saying people support child abuse then feel free to do so.

Locking up children in detention centres is child abuse.
Do you support the locking up of children in detention centres?
Or, like me, do you support identifying and trialing approaches that don't involve abusing children?

 

[little graham]

Wow.

Sometimes the truth hurts and needs to be said.

Instead of lining the pockets of overseas administrators of charities and the lavish lifestyles they can have, instead of paying for massive energy use in their travels and their products ,maybe we should putting solar on the roofs of gov housing. Housing for the disabled and those labelled mentally ill.

These groups are in poverty with massive energy overheads with a low income. Your taxes pay their bills. your taxes line the pockets of energy companies that then sponsor politicians who will stop these sort of actions.

I remember rotary held fundraisers for the Philippines typhoon to send shelter boxes to all those sweat shop workers making our nikes for a dollar a day(not exactly correct but you get the point) these boxes were pommy and the gear was not made to last. As I explained my position to the president, aboriginal family walked by, originally from somewhere in the NT, down this way as refugees.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Sometimes the truth hurts and needs to be said.

Instead of lining the pockets of overseas administrators of charities and the lavish lifestyles they can have, instead of paying for massive energy use in their travels and their products ,maybe we should putting solar on the roofs of gov housing. Housing for the disabled and those labelled mentally ill.

These groups are in poverty with massive energy overheads with a low income. Your taxes pay their bills. your taxes line the pockets of energy companies that then sponsor politicians who will stop these sort of actions.

I remember rotary held fundraisers for the Philippines typhoon to send shelter boxes to all those sweat shop workers making our nikes for a dollar a day(not exactly correct but you get the point) these boxes were pommy and the gear was not made to last. As I explained my position to the president, aboriginal family walked by, originally from somewhere in the NT, down this way as refugees.

pensioners would be a good get stick em public housing estates for old people, solar powered to keep costs down, rather than selling off entire suburbs turn them into to government owned retirement homes.

 

[sherb]

Sometimes the truth hurts and needs to be said.

Instead of lining the pockets of overseas administrators of charities and the lavish lifestyles they can have, instead of paying for massive energy use in their travels and their products ,maybe we should putting solar on the roofs of gov housing. Housing for the disabled and those labelled mentally ill.

These groups are in poverty with massive energy overheads with a low income. Your taxes pay their bills. your taxes line the pockets of energy companies that then sponsor politicians who will stop these sort of actions.

I remember rotary held fundraisers for the Philippines typhoon to send shelter boxes to all those sweat shop workers making our nikes for a dollar a day(not exactly correct but you get the point) these boxes were pommy and the gear was not made to last. As I explained my position to the president, aboriginal family walked by, originally from somewhere in the NT, down this way as refugees.

Maybe you should mind your own business and let people donate their hard earned dollars where they choose.

And maybe at the same time you should stop playing amateur psychologist by assuming the motives of people you don't know for donating where they do.

 

[Mofra]

Given the two seats won at the Vic state election by the Greens, is it now prudent to answer the thread title with an emphatic "no, that's a stupid proposition"?

 

[Gough]

Aspirational thread.

 

[Maggie5]

And one of the best ways to do that is to keep the Rudd policies from being reenacted (with support from the Greens I might add).

See this is exactly what I mean, Rudd is the past, no need to go there if we have learned that was not the answer, what to do now?

 

[Max zero]

See this is exactly what I mean, Rudd is the past, no need to go there if we have learned that was not the answer, what to do now?

Your right it is the past but the idea of onshore processing isn't dead. Ask the Greens about whether we should have onshore processing.

 

[Max zero]

Locking up children in detention centres is child abuse.
Do you support the locking up of children in detention centres?
Or, like me, do you support identifying and trialing approaches that don't involve abusing children?

And what would you call providing an incentive for desperate people to undertake a dangerous act?
Do you support onshore processing?
Or, like me, do you support approaches that don't result in thousands dead and even more in detention?

 

[Maggie5]

Your right it is the past but the idea of onshore processing isn't dead. Ask the Greens about whether we should have onshore processing.

No need to ask as I support on-shore processing. Quicker, cheaper, more humane and complying with our obligations.

Enough in the media to show that we are not doing the Manus, Cambodia or Nauru any favours, that is unless of course making sure that they have opportunities for employment and subsidising their economy whilst destroying their social fabric.

 

[Max zero]

No need to ask as I support on-shore processing. Quicker, cheaper, more humane and complying with our obligations.

Enough in the media to show that we are not doing the Manus, Cambodia or Nauru any favours, that is unless of course making sure that they have opportunities for employment and subsidising their economy whilst destroying their social fabric.

Onshore processing also provides a strong incentive to arrive by boat too.

 

[Maggie5]

Onshore processing also provides a strong incentive to arrive by boat too.

But, the boats have stopped! It is about dealing with the ones that are currently in detention.
I don't know how many times I have to make this point.

 

[Max zero]

But, the boats have stopped! It is about dealing with the ones that are currently in detention.
I don't know how many times I have to make this point.

But you just said you support onshore processing. Would you like it to return?

The boats had stopped under Howard as well. Why did they start up again?

If people keep pushing for the situation that causes this in the first place and larger numbers start to arrive then you are back to bailing out a leaking boat. People have said no one wants a return to Rudd policies but that's a lie isn't it? People DO want a return of Rudd's policies.

 

[Maggie5]

But you just said you support onshore processing. Would you like it to return?

The boats had stopped under Howard as well. Why did they start up again?

If people keep pushing for the situation that causes this in the first place and larger numbers start to arrive then you are back to bailing out a leaking boat. People have said no one wants a return to Rudd policies but that's a lie isn't it? People DO want a return of Rudd's policies.

I don't think that you can compare the boats stopping with what Morrison has done. He has even enlisted seaman from UK and Aus navy boats to patrol using our boats.
Very tight and expensive net around our shores. But you knew this.
Stop playing games.

 

[Max zero]

I don't think that you can compare the boats stopping with what Morrison has done. He has even enlisted seaman from UK and Aus navy boats to patrol using our boats.
Very tight and expensive net around our shores. But you knew this.
Stop playing games.

Playing games? You are the one saying you don't want a return of Rudd's polices yet in the next breath say you support onshore processing (a Rudd policy).

You say that the past is past and that we have learned from it. Yet you still support the key policy that caused the previous problems (and advocate for its return) then you haven't learned anything at all.

If you want let the past go then that means letting go of the failed policies.