Tertiary and Continuing Is University Worth It?

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It depends what you want out of life, and how you attack it.

I opted out of one of the most lucrative industries in the country (Oil and Gas) to go into construction, as that was what I was passionate about.

I earn well above what I would of as a Petroleum Engineer because I was passionate about what I was doing and progressed extremely quickly through the industry.
 
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most of the stuff you learn at uni is deemed useless at work.

but you wont get the job without the degree so its really a necessity unless you get into a good trade or know a few shortcuts

I disagree. A good portion of what you learn at uni is useful, not only for work. I admit I am slightly biased because I am heading toward a career in academia where it is all useful but even then I can't see how it is not useful, unless you are working in a field unrelated or only partially related to your uni degree.

Also, a lot of university is not just learning a topic and passing a subject but learning to critically analyse, solve complex problems or construct meaningful and well thought out work, whether it is in the form of a thesis, an essay or report. While you do learn these skills at school, I think they become far more developed and mature during university.
 

quickstraw

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I disagree. A good portion of what you learn at uni is useful, not only for work. I admit I am slightly biased because I am heading toward a career in academia where it is all useful but even then I can't see how it is not useful, unless you are working in a field unrelated or only partially related to your uni degree.

Also, a lot of university is not just learning a topic and passing a subject but learning to critically analyse, solve complex problems or construct meaningful and well thought out work, whether it is in the form of a thesis, an essay or report. While you do learn these skills at school, I think they become far more developed and mature during university.
You are clueless to be honest but that's not surprising given you are taking the academia path. You're going to la la land basically.
 

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quickstraw

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That's unnecessary and pointless.

He made a perfectly valid & reasonable post, there is no need to be a random Syd about it
There's a point: academics are typically in la la land.

The said poster is in la la land if he thinks uni is some sort of place with a superior teaching or learning environment. In my time I read plenty of articles and thesis' from academics and I'd have to say I was very underwhelmed. Amateur hour.

Academics typically have little credibility in the big scheme of things. Just people puncing about in la la land thinking they are clever and important.
 
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There's a point: academics are typically in la la land.

The said poster is in la la land if he thinks uni is some sort of place with a superior teaching or learning environment. In my time I read plenty of articles and thesis' from academics and I'd have to say I was very underwhelmed. Amateur hour.

Academics typically have little credibility in the big scheme of things. Just people puncing about in la la land thinking they are clever and important.

What is your direct, personal experience of said academics and in what context?

My first impression is that this is a little minded rant based on feelings of inadequacy and a need to compensate

I might be wrong, tell me why I am?
 

quickstraw

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What is your direct, personal experience of said academics and in what context?

My first impression is that this is a little minded rant based on feelings of inadequacy and a need to compensate

I might be wrong, tell me why I am?
How would I feel inadequate? I have a Distinction average software degree. I have a successful career in industry. The only way I would consider academia is to get tenure somewhere and have a cushy job where I didn't have to extend myself.

I went to uni for 3 years and saw the output. As I said underwhelming. You know that for unis to get credibility they have to write papers? Well I read a lot of the papers and it was amateur hour. Whilst I agree that uni degrees are needed if you want a professional job, let's not let people like you and said poster bullshit people about what it's all about. The facts are:

1. A uni degree teaches you not even the tip of the iceberg of your industry, but the tip of the iceberg is essential in being able to start in your chosen industry.
2. A uni degree is essentially a way of eliminating people from industries. No degree, no job.
3. Let's not kid ourselves that universities are some sort great learning/teaching facility, or that they have great standards. Universities are amateur hour for the most part.
4. A lot of academics are just people who like the education system. That's all well and good, but I don't think they should be taking any such stance of superiority. As I said, it's amateur hour.
 

Colin D'Cops

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Both androidtommy and quickstraw are correct IMO.

Study can be useful not only in a line of work, but also for your own personal benefit - see Finance for example. However most jobs or companies have specialised procedures which are not taught, rather have been reviewed and refined for many years. Some background understanding certainly doesn't hurt and can put future procedures into some sort of perspective.
 
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Academics typically have little credibility in the big scheme of things. Just people puncing about in la la land thinking they are clever and important.

I don't really understand the personal attack, or percieved hate for academics, but here I go with some alternative points...

Academics have little credibility? This might be true in a software degree (I assume software engineering) because a majority of the good software engineers go into industry; that is where the money and the time is spent. I am not aware of a great deal of software engineering advances done at the university level and I agree that in this field, university will only teach you the 'tip of the iceberg', there is much more to be learned in industry working directly with whatever software you use.
I am a science student so a majority of my experiences are there, but I fail to see how you think academics have no credibility. In my field I would be lucky to find 1/50 papers published, or worthwhile research conducted, by someone outside of a university. CSIRO, The Peter Mac Cancer Institute, etc all have valuable research also, however as purely research institutes i feel this is expected and different to inductrial partners such as paint companies of pharmaceuticals.

Just people 'puncing about in la la land'? Not really sure how to respond to that... I am not familiar with an academic from any department doing anything like that. At a stretch when I was an undergrad I could see how it would appear that way, given they have hundreds of students, uni duties and probably their own research group, im sure it is hard to squeeze in doizen or more first/second years asking the same question you have already covered in a lecture.

The said poster is in la la land if he thinks uni is some sort of place with a superior teaching or learning environment. In my time I read plenty of articles and thesis' from academics and I'd have to say I was very underwhelmed. Amateur hour.

Again, I think this might be more to do with your field of study than university as a whole. Article's, on the whole, are written by students with not a lot of writing experience so sometimes they are not as well written, I can understand that. I can also understand that some thesis' may be underwhelming because of a lack of results or whatever else you might have a problem with. Thesis' are also written by someone who has little experience with scientific writing, and the jump from undergrad writing to postgrad writing is quite large. Many thesis' by coursework (honours/masters) are written pretty quickly to reach a deadline so may not be the best quality, especially if they have not given time for their supervisor to read over. PhD's thesis' are written much better but are often rushed at the end as funding runs out, a supervisor is pushing for more results, etc. A finished thesis is better than a perfect, incomplete thesis, so they are not going to be perfect everytime, and perfect in one's eyes is not perfect in anothers.

I don't think I said university was a superior teaching or learning environment (superior to what? High school?). Undergraduate degrees are expectedly basic compared to post-graduate degrees. That doesnt mean they have no value or are amateur, to me that means it is hard to teach a relatively broad subject to a class of tens of people who all have differing ideas and likes/dislikes. If you were to teach what you learned in your software degree to a whole years cohort to prepare them all for what may come, you would also have to teach in a broad and perhaps, simpler fashion. If you were to teach what you learned in inductry, I imagine you would be able to be a great deal more focus.

1. A uni degree teaches you not even the tip of the iceberg of your industry, but the tip of the iceberg is essential in being able to start in your chosen industry.
2. A uni degree is essentially a way of eliminating people from industries. No degree, no job.
3. Let's not kid ourselves that universities are some sort great learning/teaching facility, or that they have great standards. Universities are amateur hour for the most part.
4. A lot of academics are just people who like the education system. That's all well and good, but I don't think they should be taking any such stance of superiority. As I said, it's amateur hour.

As for the 'facts'
1. A uni degree teaches you not even the tip of the iceberg of your industry, if it taught the whole iceberg, there wouldnt be an industry because everyone would know everything. It teaches the basics. If you want to learn more of the iceberg then you go into industry or do further study. I'm not really sure why you would expect a three year degree to teach everything you might ever want to know for the rest of your time in that field. That doesnt make sense to me at all.
2. A uni degree is definitely a way of weeding people out. Someone without a degree is going to need a lot more supervision and direction than someone with a three year degree, no matter how amateur you think it might have been. Why would I hire someone who has never seen C++ or python coding over someone who has at least made a program or two with it? (sorry if this is not something you do, just trying to relate to software)
Two great points that seem pretty reasonable so far. I would lean toward the side of university being worthwhile so far, lets see what the next two points have to offer.
3. Some universities are amateur hour. Correct. Some universities are amateur hour in one field, but great in another field. The uni of melb is ranked 13th (in 2013), ANU at 21st, Uni of syd at 24th, etc for Computer Science & Information Systems (still going with the software degree you have). I saw you go for the eagles so i took a guess that you are from WA. The uni of WA ranks outside top 100, curtin uni outside top 150. So in this field, they are 11th and 12th in Australia. Because of their lower reputations, they are not going to get the same quality of lecturers as uni of melb, anu, unisyd etc. (I dont mean to say that they have poor quality lecturers by any stretch though, just that they are likely to be considered after a higher ranked university). To sum up this fact, i think amateur hour is a bit harsh and univserities can be great learning/teaching facilities, but that doesnt mean every university is for every subject. they are better at some subjects than other, just like you were great at your software degree and maybe not so good at studying biology or history.
4. A lot of academics do like the education system. Where else can you truely foster ones desire to learn a particular subject, while staying at the forefront of knowledge. School is great, but you are forced to go there for most of the time. You are not forced to go to university (although you might consider you are forced to go to get a particular job, but it is not a law). Academics don't get to just 'punce' around, they a certain number of papers they need to publish, students to graduate. They need to bring in a lot of their own funding through grants and if they dont they dont get money to do anything. To get the grant they have to work hard the aforementioned publishing and graduating, while maintaining an interesting research aim that is likely to get results (no funding for you if they dont think you can get the results).

So all in all, university doesnt suit everyone (clearly), but it has many benefits to those that choose to attend.
Sorry for the long post
 

mgov

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Thanks for the article, a very interesting read. Whether or not you consider university to be worth is will depend on the career path you're after. As a psychology student, there is no other option to pursue a caeer as a psychologist or in research without a degree of some kind.
 

Engimal

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God, I hope it's worth it. I'm starting a Bachelor of Information and Communication Technology next year. :eek:
 
God, I hope it's worth it. I'm starting a Bachelor of Information and Communication Technology next year. :eek:

good choice

make sure you have work experience during your degree over the summer holidays and a job lined up before you start your 3rd year
 

Engimal

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good choice

make sure you have work experience during your degree over the summer holidays and a job lined up before you start your 3rd year

Cheers for the advice. Just read through this thread and I never knew you were such a success story. :p
 

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The Coup

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If you can get work in an interesting field, do that instead.

the economy looks more or less rooted in the short term and medium, so if you can get a job and hold onto it do that. About 80% of my mates that have graduated in the last two years are still looking for work in their field of study, working hospitality or nothing in the meantime.

Woe to be a millennial graduating high school, compared to a Gen Y.
 
If you can get work in an interesting field, do that instead.

the economy looks more or less rooted in the short term and medium, so if you can get a job and hold onto it do that. About 80% of my mates that have graduated in the last two years are still looking for work in their field of study, working hospitality or nothing in the meantime.

Woe to be a millennial graduating high school, compared to a Gen Y.

Gen Y was truly blessed, $80k-100k graduate wages were never sustainable
 
The Chinese economy is shifting towards consumption, so think of jobs in things that chinese will want to consume.

1) food - protein, wine etc
2) boutique gifts (ie honey)
3) white goods (aluminium, copper, zinz)
4) continued global uncertainty (gold)
5) anglo wedding culture (the introduction to diamonds)

Forget anything that requires labour as you will never beat china on that!

oh and India and the rest of Asia are still coming along so the downturn will not be as bad as people think long term.
 

The Coup

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Gen Y was truly blessed, $80k-100k graduate wages were never sustainable

It was insane man. I was able to quit my job every 3-6 months and instantly walk into an identical job at a rival IB on an extra 10-15k, rinse and repeat. All this with no uni degree.

Then came 2008. Totally different world for Millenials thesedays compared to the older Gen Y people coming out of school in the early 00's.
 

The Coup

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The Chinese economy is shifting towards consumption, so think of jobs in things that chinese will want to consume.

1) food - protein, wine etc
2) boutique gifts (ie honey)
3) white goods (aluminium, copper, zinz)
4) continued global uncertainty (gold)
5) anglo wedding culture (the introduction to diamonds)

Forget anything that requires labour as you will never beat china on that!

oh and India and the rest of Asia are still coming along so the downturn will not be as bad as people think long term.

SE Asia in particular is just booming year on year.

There will be big social upheaval though, you can't have populations that big and that young without some serious issues down the line. Thailand is facing it now, but it will be even more pronounced in Philippines and Indonesia imo due to the religious bent of both countries.
 
SE Asia in particular is just booming year on year.

There will be big social upheaval though, you can't have populations that big and that young without some serious issues down the line. Thailand is facing it now, but it will be even more pronounced in Philippines and Indonesia imo due to the religious bent of both countries.

I have a gold play in Mindanao Philippines, manufacturing in Indo and just bought into an oil play in Indo today. They are volatile places with poverty and corruption a major issue.

I can see a bigger nationalistic bent in these nations and greater union influence. Personally, I welcome this change as status quo in these nations is not good enough. Yes, i am pro union in these jurisdictions.
 
It was insane man. I was able to quit my job every 3-6 months and instantly walk into an identical job at a rival IB on an extra 10-15k, rinse and repeat. All this with no uni degree.

Then came 2008. Totally different world for Millenials thesedays compared to the older Gen Y people coming out of school in the early 00's.

I would have lost my shirt in 2008 if not for a stroke of good luck in 2007 prompting me to sell out of everything.
 

The Coup

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I would have lost my shirt in 2008 if not for a stroke of good luck in 2007 prompting me to sell out of everything.

I accidentally ****ed up someones direction to sell and purchase something else about a month out from the GFC, big portfolio. I did the sale but forgot to do the purchase, I effectively cashed his entire portfolio a month prior to the GFC. Pure incompetence on my behalf that saved the client millions. that was when I decided finance was a bullshit industry. The client was wrapped.
 
I accidentally ****** up someones direction to sell and purchase something else about a month out from the GFC, big portfolio. I did the sale but forgot to do the purchase, I effectively cashed his entire portfolio a month prior to the GFC. Pure incompetence on my behalf that saved the client millions. that was when I decided finance was a bullshit industry. The client was wrapped.

your right, but you have to make your own luck
 

John Dawh

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The university you attend only matters when you are going for that first job. After that it's all about ability, perceived ability, experience, perceived experience, and how well you interview.

University ranking is a complete and utter load of 75 year old saggy bollocks. How they do the ranking:

They write papers (I can assure you most of these papers are sub standard fluff) and the more they get published, the more browny points they get. Then there's the relationships with "brother"/"Sister" institutions that seem to give them even more credibility. Has little to do with how good they are at teaching or how good their syllabus is. It's all about puncing around like f***wits and patting each other on the back as if they are doing a good job. Sadly a reflection on the corporate life many students will go on to.
 
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