Tertiary and Continuing Is University Worth It?

[RAPPA]

The university you attend only matters when you are going for that first job. After that it's all about ability, perceived ability, experience, perceived experience, and how well you interview.

University ranking is a complete and utter load of 75 year old saggy bollocks. How they do the ranking:

They write papers (I can assure you most of these papers are sub standard fluff) and the more they get published, the more browny points they get. Then there's the relationships with "brother"/"Sister" institutions that seem to give them even more credibility. Has little to do with how good they are at teaching or how good their syllabus is. It's all about puncing around like f***wits and patting each other on the back as if they are doing a good job. Sadly a reflection on the corporate life many students will go on to.

Sound like a LaTrobe flog.

 

[Chief]

Sound like a LaTrobe flog.

Not conducive to good conversation. Please be civil.

 

[SJ17]

Im doing a Bachelor of Accounting in my first year, I hope its not a waste

 

[Membling]

Im doing a Bachelor of Accounting in my first year, I hope its not a waste

Internships/cadetships. Do it and will be worth it.

 

[The Coup]

Im doing a Bachelor of Accounting in my first year, I hope its not a waste

Accounting is the occupation to be offshored en mass next.

Used to be one of the best degrees around, because every company needs accountants (or their services). But technology and capitalism have made it a lot less valuable.

But don't fret, there really aren't any good degrees left from a working point of view - they're a bad investment in Australia, better off to learn a foreign language and study overseas where its affordable. Find a nice socialist country and chill out for a few years.

 

[louismaxwell]

University is a complete waste of time, and way too expensive and it seems to churn out normal people into maddies. Just look at some of the posters on this forum ,some have the most bizarre outlook. Anyway i am off to study in a socialist country for awhile.

 

[Sanders]

Accounting is the occupation to be offshored en mass next.

Used to be one of the best degrees around, because every company needs accountants (or their services). But technology and capitalism have made it a lot less valuable.

But don't fret, there really aren't any good degrees left from a working point of view - they're a bad investment in Australia, better off to learn a foreign language and study overseas where its affordable. Find a nice socialist country and chill out for a few years.

No fries thanks

 

[The Coup]

No fries thanks

Oh I'm not a uni leaver or high school leaver, I already have a few professions under my belt as a result of being part of a more supported generation than the kids coming through today. Just trying to offer them enough advice that they don't end up with a 6 figure debt for something they can't use.

Uni is a product these days, not a place to learn.

 

[Taylor]

While the product coming out of the subcontinent is at it's current level there won't be any accountants overseas. There are $500 per hour accountants in Australia who advise accountants on the law, it's that complicated.

We can reduce the complexity of the system and then move the industry overseas though.

 

[The Coup]

While the product coming out of the subcontinent is at it's current level there won't be any accountants overseas. There are $500 per hour accountants in Australia who advise accountants on the law, it's that complicated.

We can reduce the complexity of the system and then move the industry overseas though.

There are also shitty accountants on 70k per year working directly for small and medium size businesses. Lots of them.

Those guys have no future if we maintain a capitalist system. Their jobs will be gone very soon. Same with most financial administration (what is left at least).

 

[Taylor]

There are also shitty accountants on 70k per year working directly for small and medium size businesses. Lots of them.

Those guys have no future if we maintain a capitalist system. Their jobs will be gone very soon. Same with most financial administration (what is left at least).

Those accountants are there because small business account fees are getting up towards $40,000 a year, it becomes cost effective to split the time of an accountant between a few small businesses and have a full time person.

 

[The Coup]

Those accountants are there because small business account fees are getting up towards $40,000 a year, it becomes cost effective to split the time of an accountant between a few small businesses and have a full time person.

I agree. It isn't the business owners fault, its the system.

Knowledge and labour are losing value because we have no political will to protect it (and massive foreign and domestic capitalist interests lobbying our government to do the opposite).

Initially everyone said it would just be cleaning jobs and that sort of thing. Then it was call centre jobs. Then it was manufacturing. Now its starting to hit the other enemy of the ruling class (the upper middle class - i.e. skilled employees from middle class backgrounds like accountants) a bit more with accounting, financial planning, paraplanning and soon parts of the legal industry.

Ten years ago every firm in Australia had its own accountant, as you said quite often they now share them. Soon they will share someone from Cebu or Jakarta instead.

Because once one company lowers the bar, everyone has to follow to remain "competitive" by employing exploited labour wherever possible.

This is capitalism.

 

[Taylor]

I agree. It isn't the business owners fault, its the system.

Knowledge and labour are losing value because we have no political will to protect it (and massive foreign and domestic capitalist interests lobbying our government to do the opposite).

Initially everyone said it would just be cleaning jobs and that sort of thing. Then it was call centre jobs. Then it was manufacturing. Now its starting to hit the other enemy of the ruling class (the upper middle class - i.e. skilled employees from middle class backgrounds like accountants) a bit more with accounting, financial planning, paraplanning and soon parts of the legal industry.

Do you think there will be an army of Indian engineers studying up on the legalities of US, UK and AUS tax law?

I'm not in that industry but I do have to navigate it a bit and the complexity of it makes me doubt that it could be successfully applied by those not experienced in it, and why would an Indian person come to Australia gain experience, get paid at Australian levels then go home to make less money when they could stay here?

 

[The Coup]

Do you think there will be an army of Indian engineers studying up on the legalities of US, UK and AUS tax law?

I'm not in that industry but I do have to navigate it a bit and the complexity of it makes me doubt that it could be successfully applied by those not experienced in it, and why would an Indian person come to Australia gain experience, get paid at Australian levels then go home to make less money when they could stay here?

Its a piece of piss.

You don't need Indians learning it.

We did this in Philippines and India already in a number of industries, you just send over some overseers/compliance to set the place up and monitor it etc.

Take a large-ish accounting firm in Australia. They already have audit teams and compliance teams that function to make sure the accountants are being compliant, legal and accurate in their advice and work.

You keep those people, and you send some of them to say Quezon to get the operation started up - you then start hiring the best performing grads from the best international schools in the region. Over time you phase them into the Australian operation, bring them to Australia to learn the role etc. and eventually lower the numbers of your Australian workforce over time until its no longer required. They'll be massively growing the business as they do this if they're the first to do so, as they'll be able to undercut their competitors massively.

Then as their competitors wish to do the same, you'll see senior management from the first company spread out into consulting and use their contacts in the developing world to accelerate the process. The governments in these nations will make it very easy to do business

As I said, knowledge is losing its value from an occupational point of view - but then everything is losing its value except OWNING CAPITAL.

Believe it or not, most people from other countries don't want to live in Australia long term. Its far away from everything they actually love, they come here for work period, not necessarily more money.

30k a year in Philippines or Indo goes a lot further than 80k in Australia.

 

[Taylor]

Do you think people will trust them enough to send their financial details overseas, a place where they can't be held accountable (no pun intended) for their advice or work and potentially giving bad advice that lands their Australian client in gaol?

 

[The Coup]

Do you think people will trust them enough to send their financial details overseas, a place where they can't be held accountable (no pun intended) for their advice or work and potentially giving bad advice that lands their Australian client in gaol?

Our financial details already go overseas in all likelihood.

If you use etax, your financial details are most likely overseas somewhere.

And yeah, corporate criminals pretty much don't get prosecuted in Australia, especially for tax avoidance. Its a huge problem, but nobody will fix it any time soon as long as the campaign donations keep rolling in.

And you don't tell your customers that your accountants are in the Philippines or Indo, and when they want to meet one you still have a few "senior accountants" in Australia for the meet and greet, presentation etc. and their name is the one on the document.

No need to advise your clients their information is being sent overseas to be worked on. It has no relevance.

Its amazing the stuff you can effectively outsource while pretending you still operate in Australia. I'm talking basic office admin, documentation etc. as well as customer service, accounting, planning, compliance and it is heading in one direction.

There would be very few medium sized service/skill based businesses in Australia that won't outsource more of their functions to try and keep pace with the global monoliths.

 

[J_Moore]

my mate who's a partner at a small accounting firm offshores some of their work. can sometimes be more trouble than it's worth though, apparently.

 

[OhhhhhCyril]

Interesting, Once I finished school I took a few years off and did the whole hospitality thing, you know worked around and made some coin but then decided I don't want to get to 30 and be Mr Manager and stuck working split shifts 6 days a week for the rest of my life So I went to tafe and got myself a certificate IV in Social Science and Youth Work. I return in Feb for 15 weeks to finish of my diploma I was then looking at going to Uni and doing a Bachelor in Mental Health.

Now most people I talk to tell me its all about Industry experience and once I finish up mid year I can get myself an entry level job and work my way up, yet I feel I would be lacking education to provide my clients the best possible care so I figure more education is better, am I wrong?

 

[J_Moore]

Interesting, Once I finished school I took a few years off and did the whole hospitality thing, you know worked around and made some coin but then decided I don't want to get to 30 and be Mr Manager and stuck working split shifts 6 days a week for the rest of my life So I went to tafe and got myself a certificate IV in Social Science and Youth Work. I return in Feb for 15 weeks to finish of my diploma I was then looking at going to Uni and doing a Bachelor in Mental Health.

Now most people I talk to tell me its all about Industry experience and once I finish up mid year I can get myself an entry level job and work my way up, yet I feel I would be lacking education to provide my clients the best possible care so I figure more education is better, am I wrong?

CLUBMEDhurst might know a bit more

 

[Bombermania]

I agree. It isn't the business owners fault, its the system.

Knowledge and labour are losing value because we have no political will to protect it (and massive foreign and domestic capitalist interests lobbying our government to do the opposite).

Initially everyone said it would just be cleaning jobs and that sort of thing. Then it was call centre jobs. Then it was manufacturing. Now its starting to hit the other enemy of the ruling class (the upper middle class - i.e. skilled employees from middle class backgrounds like accountants) a bit more with accounting, financial planning, paraplanning and soon parts of the legal industry.

Ten years ago every firm in Australia had its own accountant, as you said quite often they now share them. Soon they will share someone from Cebu or Jakarta instead.

Because once one company lowers the bar, everyone has to follow to remain "competitive" by employing exploited labour wherever possible.

This is capitalism.

The one thing which you may have overlooked if the white collar jobs start to disappear then unemployment will rise in the traditional swing seats thus the politicians may have to act, the reason manufacturing was allowed to go was that it was deemed to be wedded on ALP voters but the white collar people are in many cases the voters who swing elections.

I think the point will be reached when the tide of technology will be pushed back against particularly as computers don't vote and we only need one big crisis caused by computers or lack of humans and the government will be forced to act.

 

[Taylor]

There are algorithms now that can learn how to do processes and distinguish tasks at a better rate that humans with greater accuracy.

Unless your job involves creative solutions it will be done by a machine eventually.

 

[Bombermania]

There are algorithms now that can learn how to do processes and distinguish tasks at a better rate that humans with greater accuracy.

Unless your job involves creative solutions it will be done by a machine eventually.

That may all be true but come the first financial crisis caused by a computer and what do we think the regulators will do and the systems cannot vote so at some point governments wanting to be reelected will have to decide technology or voters.

In the mean time yes many jobs will be taken over by computers.

 

[Taylor]

That may all be true but come the first financial crisis caused by a computer and what do we think the regulators will do and the systems cannot vote so at some point governments wanting to be reelected will have to decide technology or voters.

In the mean time yes many jobs will be taken over by computers.

Do you mean there will be a time when no human will be directing the actions of a machine? Nobody responsible for it's actions?

Actual life. That will be a remarkable moment. Even if it's just the machine popping outside to see the sunrise.

 

[Bombermania]

Do you mean there will be a time when no human will be directing the actions of a machine? Nobody responsible for it's actions?

Actual life. That will be a remarkable moment. Even if it's just the machine popping outside to see the sunrise.

I am referring to the use of algorithms

There is already a question mark over their performance particularly when the stock market is falling for the computers are set to sell at set prices thus add to the sell off despite the fundamentals of the stock.

Of course computers and technology do have an important role to play but I don't prescribe to the theory that they will take over the workplace, yes some roles can be performed but regulators like procedures followed and at this stage I am not sure computers can fully follow them.

 

[Taylor]

They would be more reliable than a human with bias, motivations and influences.

I do see your point though.