Israel, Palestine, and everything related

[Smiling Buddha]

There must be an answer. This is not a coincidence. Read a News/Fairfax/ABC article on the current round of Israeli Defence Force bombing of innocent Arab civilians and you would think that the Israelis were merely 'defending themselves'. The same way the US 'defended itself' by invading and pillaging Iraq.

Here is a graphic I have yet to see anywhere in the Aus msm:

And here is a concise summary of what has been taking place in Palestine over the past couple of weeks:


I will give credit to the ABC for the fact that they did air this Louis Theroux documentary. But not many people watch these kinds of documentaries; the vast majority of people get their 'information' from news bulletins and newspapers. Why is it that if you were to ask the average Australian today about what is happening in Israel, they would likely be completely oblivious to the genocide taking place, and probably even supportive of Israel 'defending itself'?

 

[telsor]

That notoriously pro-Israel group know as the government of Egypt negotiated a ceasefire in the latest fighting.

Israel agreed and stopped their attacks.
Hamas fired another 50 missiles in the 9 (?IIRC) hours following, at which point the Israelis rejoined the fight.

Oh, and BTW, a fair number of the attacks by Hamas are on Palestinian targets.


If you want to stop Palestinians dying, stop Hamas.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

None of that answers the questions in the OP.

Neither do your talking points list the total Israeli deaths from those alleged rockets.

Or how that figure (presumably zero) compares to the number of Arab deaths at the hands of the IDF.

 

[radiojake]

I loved the opinion piece on the front page of The Australian the other day masquarading as 'analysis'

Said that Israel is responding in the exact same was that Australia or any other country would in response to rockets.
Didn't mention how Australians or any other country would respond if their homes were constantly taken or bombed...

Then also used to the word neanderthal to describe Palestinian fighters 'on their best days'

 

[telsor]

None of that answers the questions in the OP.

Neither do your talking points list the total Israeli deaths from those alleged rockets.

Or how that figure (presumably zero) compares to the number of Arab deaths at the hands of the IDF.

One side tries to minimise casualties (by warning the civilians in the area they're striking at).

The other side tries to maximise THEIR OWN casualties by putting rocket launchers in civilian areas and trying to stop civilians leaving when they've been warned. (and targetting Palestinian areas with their rockets...casualties stopped by the Israelis defending them too).


Hard to complain about Palestinian casualties when they're trying to inflate them themselves.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

And still you fail to list fatality numbers. Your propaganda is transparent.

 

[telsor]

And still you fail to list fatality numbers. Your propaganda is transparent.

a) I don't know the numbers off the top of my head.
b) I can't be bothered, you're the one trying to make the propaganda point, you should try and support your view.
c) As I said, the numbers are inflated and distorted by Hamas causing Palestinian casualties.


edited to add..
4) To stop Palestinian casualties, all Hamas needs to do is stop firing rockets. It's entirely in their hands, Israel has already shown a willingness to accept a ceasefire.

 

[radiojake]

The other side tries to maximise THEIR OWN casualties by putting rocket launchers in civilian areas and trying to stop civilians leaving when they've been warned.

Do they really do this?

 

[strauchnyy]

None of that answers the questions in the OP.

Neither do your talking points list the total Israeli deaths from those alleged rockets.

Or how that figure (presumably zero) compares to the number of Arab deaths at the hands of the IDF.

Total Israeli deaths are minimal (0 or 1 I think from this current conflict - not including the teenagers that started it) Because Israel use their weapons and funds to PROTECT its civilians, for instance the Iron Dome.

On the other hand you have Hamas, a jihadist terrorist organisation, that brainwashes its people (see below video) like north korea, names streets after suicide bombers, demonises Israelis and the West (yes that's us), constantly calls for the destruction of Israel and death of Israelis. This blood thirsty group is calling for its own people to act as human shields. Why? - to win the propaganda war around the world when people only look at the casualties count. Sickening.



On one side, you have Israel that bombs military targets (whilst doing their best to warn civilians). Purpose: stop rockets and protect its citizens.

The other side, Hamas, fire rockets into Israel. Purpose: Kill, Kill, Kill.

The lopsided death count (as atrocious as it is, no matter the side) is a result of Israel's Iron dome and Hamas's intentional use of human shields and because they hide their rockets and themselves, within the civilian population (schools, mosques etc.).

Hamas puts its own people in danger. It couldn't even halt rockets during a ceasefire. Where is your outcry here? where is this mentioned in our media?

With reference to your initial post on the borders - I agree that Israel needs to stop its settlement expansion. But for Israel to go back to 1967 boarders, it would leave them with an indefensible strip of land between the sea (approx 8km). This is all good and well when you have peaceful neighbours. But if the other-side's primary objective calls for your destruction - you simply cannot revert to these borders. What would you do as Israel here? Israel is here to stay, and Hamas/Palestinians need to recognise Israel for peace to happen. I won't hold my breath.

For the record, your picture WAS shown on the Heraldsun during the week.

Also, there are many Arab-Israelis living all over Israel. These arabs support Israel, but you wouldn't hear about that in the Aus media, would you?

I am not saying Israel does everything right, far from it. But when I look at the current conflict, it is quite clear that Israel is doing mostly good, and the Hamas/Pal side is doing mostly bad, especially for its own people.

For those who want to know a bit more on the background of the current conflict:

 

[radiojake]

For those who want to know a bit more on the background of the current conflict:

The Middle East conflict is framed as one of the most complex problems in the world. But, in reality, it's very simple. Israelis want to live in peace and are willing to accept a neighboring Palestinian state. And most Palestinians do not want Israel to exist.

Haha.. Dennis Prager?

Yeah, let's take an influential Jewish political commentator for an un-biased assessment of the entire conflict...

Have you taken his 'Israel Test' ?

Would you believe us if we said that the best litmus test of any society's success is its attitude towards Israel? Well, it's true. As George Gilder explains, whether a society envies and resents Israel's success or celebrates and tries to replicate it is indicative of that society's progress. Countries that "pass" the "Israel Test" tend to rise. Those who don't tend to sink. So, does your society pass the "Israel Test"? In five minutes, find out.

You want me to pull out a video made by Palestinians as a bit of 'background' infrormation on the conflict?

 

[strauchnyy]

Haha.. Dennis Prager?

Yeah, let's take an influential Jewish political commentator for an un-biased assessment of the entire conflict...

Have you taken his 'Israel Test' ?




You want me to pull out a video made by Palestinians as a bit of 'background' infrormation on the conflict?

Nice deflection, but I'll bite.

Please provide me with factual evidence that disproves the clip. Ill sit tight.

 

[DardySingh360]

Anti-Semitism on this board?

Sickening, the sooner we rid the world of racists the better.

 

[slicedndiced]

Anti-Semitism on this board?

Sickening, the sooner we rid the world of racists the better.

Nice twisting of logic B1. Or are you B2 or 3?

There is no anti-semitism here, only people pointing out that Israels hands are far from clean in this in the face of claims to the contrary.

Both sides are gibbering idiots imo.

 

[Chameleon75]

Anti-Semitism on this board?

Sickening, the sooner we rid the world of racists the better.

I agree the hatred shown to the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews and Arabs is appalling.

 

[radiojake]

Anti-Semitism on this board?

Sickening, the sooner we rid the world of racists the better.

Anti-Zionism does not equal anti-semitism

 

[telsor]

Do they really do this?

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/1...y-idf-to-leave-targeted-buildings-in-advance/

Hamas, however, has officially urged residents to ignore the Israeli warnings to evacuate prior to Air Force air strikes, and, instead, called on them to serve as human shields.

Or from the horse's mouth..(the original link from the blue bit above)

http://www.moi.gov.ps/En/Details.aspx?NID=67875

First, the ministry calling all our people not to deal or pay attention to the psychological warfare carried out by the occupation through rumors that broadcast across his media and delivering publications and communications on the phones of citizens, and the lack of response for each of these means, which aims to weaken the domestic front in light of great steadfastness of our people to face the aggression.

 

[Floor Pie]

There must be an answer. This is not a coincidence. Read a News/Fairfax/ABC article on the current round of Israeli Defence Force bombing of innocent Arab civilians and you would think that the Israelis were merely 'defending themselves'. The same way the US 'defended itself' by invading and pillaging Iraq.

Here is a graphic I have yet to see anywhere in the Aus msm:

And here is a concise summary of what has been taking place in Palestine over the past couple of weeks:


I will give credit to the ABC for the fact that they did air this Louis Theroux documentary. But not many people watch these kinds of documentaries; the vast majority of people get their 'information' from news bulletins and newspapers. Why is it that if you were to ask the average Australian today about what is happening in Israel, they would likely be completely oblivious to the genocide taking place, and probably even supportive of Israel 'defending itself'?

Total Israeli deaths are minimal (0 or 1 I think from this current conflict - not including the teenagers that started it) Because Israel use their weapons and funds to PROTECT its civilians, for instance the Iron Dome.

On the other hand you have Hamas, a jihadist terrorist organisation, that brainwashes its people (see below video) like north korea, names streets after suicide bombers, demonises Israelis and the West (yes that's us), constantly calls for the destruction of Israel and death of Israelis. This blood thirsty group is calling for its own people to act as human shields. Why? - to win the propaganda war around the world when people only look at the casualties count. Sickening.



On one side, you have Israel that bombs military targets (whilst doing their best to warn civilians). Purpose: stop rockets and protect its citizens.

The other side, Hamas, fire rockets into Israel. Purpose: Kill, Kill, Kill.

The lopsided death count (as atrocious as it is, no matter the side) is a result of Israel's Iron dome and Hamas's intentional use of human shields and because they hide their rockets and themselves, within the civilian population (schools, mosques etc.).

Hamas puts its own people in danger. It couldn't even halt rockets during a ceasefire. Where is your outcry here? where is this mentioned in our media?

With reference to your initial post on the borders - I agree that Israel needs to stop its settlement expansion. But for Israel to go back to 1967 boarders, it would leave them with an indefensible strip of land between the sea (approx 8km). This is all good and well when you have peaceful neighbours. But if the other-side's primary objective calls for your destruction - you simply cannot revert to these borders. What would you do as Israel here? Israel is here to stay, and Hamas/Palestinians need to recognise Israel for peace to happen. I won't hold my breath.

For the record, your picture WAS shown on the Heraldsun during the week.

Also, there are many Arab-Israelis living all over Israel. These arabs support Israel, but you wouldn't hear about that in the Aus media, would you?

I am not saying Israel does everything right, far from it. But when I look at the current conflict, it is quite clear that Israel is doing mostly good, and the Hamas/Pal side is doing mostly bad, especially for its own people.

For those who want to know a bit more on the background of the current conflict:

Both of you idiots, with rival points, actually do nothing to support your cause.
Posting shitty and biased youtube clips, does nothing to support either cause.


Why don't you both actually approach this subject with an open mind, and create strong points, rather that positing your views, and backing them with the youtube clips that you obviously gained them from?

There is no simple 8 minute youtube clip, that can actually explain the Israeli/Palestine conflict. It is a very deep and convoluted issue, and needs to be researched by all parties, before passing judgment!

 

[Smiling Buddha]

What a load of nonsense. There is nothing 'complicated' about the current round of IDF attacks on innocent civilians.

The. IDF. Is. Killing. Innocent. Civilians. Right. Now. With. Sophisticated. Weaponry. Sourced/Funded. By. USA.

You might argue that this is okay. Or justified. Or that Israel ought to be forgiven because they are the chosen people. Or whatever.

But the facts are the facts and this thread was posed to ask why the average shmo on the street isn't being told the facts.

Anybody trying to obfuscate those facts is doing so out of an agenda. A transparent agenda.

 

[strauchnyy]

What a load of nonsense. There is nothing 'complicated' about the current round of IDF attacks on innocent civilians.

The above post by Floor Pie does make sense. You are the one shouting nonsense.

But the fact is - Israel is not targeting civilians. Period. Palestinian deaths does not equal Israel targeting targeting of civilians.

You might argue that this is okay. Or justified. Or that Israel ought to be forgiven because they are the chosen people. Or whatever.

No one is arguing that civilian casualties are justified. No one. But the cause of the deaths are largely a result of Hamas cowering and hiding their rockets amongst civilians.

Also, no one speaking of chosen people nonsense but you. Just as someone wrongly equated antisemitism with anti-zionism. No pro-Israeli is playing the chosen people card. That is plain rubbish on your behalf.

Anybody trying to obfuscate those facts is doing so out of an agenda. A transparent agenda.

Yet you accuse Israel of targeting civilians.

You have no credibility when you voice garbage like that.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

It is Hamas who are responsible for the IDF killing innocent Arabs with sophisticated bombs.

doublethink friend me good

 

[Smiling Buddha]

[Netanyahu] wasn’t saying that he doesn’t support a two-state solution. He was saying that it’s impossible. This was not a new, dramatic change of stance by the prime minister. It was a new, dramatic exposition of his long-held stance.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/?mobile=0

 

[NitroFan]

It is Hamas who are responsible for the IDF killing innocent Arabs with sophisticated bombs.

doublethink friend me good

do you believe hamas intentionally place their rockets in areas where there will be civilian causalities should those rockets be targeted?

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Are the following things untrue.

- Israel gives advance notice of military strikes, to reduce the prospect of civilian casualties.

- Hamas launches its missiles from locations teeming with civilians, and is doing its best to kill as may israelis as possible.

- imams in gaza have been broadcasting messages telling Palestinians they should stay put to give Hamas cover rather than evacuate.

- Israel observed the most recent ceasefire, Hamas breached it.

Because all of those things were just broadcast by an eyewitness journalist reporting on behalf of that well known friend of Israel the abc.

With all that in mind this is not at all a moral zero sum game. Israel may be replete with religious nuts and are at a minimum pretty cavalier about collateral damage. But Hamas are an evil evil organisation, committed to maximizing the number of dead and maimed people on both sides. They epitomize everything which is despicable about Islamic extremist groups, and I think it is hilariously naive to imagine there will be a peace process until every Hamas member is exterminated. Horribly rough on the Palestinian people who will cop it in the mean time, but if Israel is smart they will keep up this attack until there are no rockets left and no one from Hamas left to stand in front of a tv camera. Kill every single member of Hamas, and then let's talk about the peace process.

 

[kanye_best]

Because to comment on what is actually happening would go against the smear campaign against Muslims that the Western world has been running for the past 15 years. It's a shame so many people here have fallen for the propaganda, as evidenced by people still calling Hamas a terrorist organisation and blaming them for the ongoing conflict.

 

[Mofra]

Horribly rough on the Palestinian people who will cop it in the mean time, but if Israel is smart they will keep up this attack until there are no rockets left and no one from Hamas left to stand in front of a tv camera. Kill every single member of Hamas, and then let's talk about the peace process.

Given Hamas propose the complete destruction of Israel, I hope you can appreciate the irony of this post.

Trying to pretend one side is solely to blame is pointless, it's just too easy to point to wrongdoings of the other.