Roast It's time to ditch the pokies

[Matt Stevic]

It's not often when I give Norf credit, but their positive anti gambling stance must be commended. And I think it's about time for us to follow their lead, and decommission our poker machines. We can't claim to be the family club when we so actively participate in something that breaks up families.

We're a strong enough club now to survive on our own. I understand that post Jackson era,clubs find it harder to survive, but at Hawthorn we can do it. We have 60k members, and lots of recent success for us to grab more. In the end, isn't leeching off helpless families and pensioners just as bad as leeching off the AFL, if not worse?

I don't know if there is anything we can do as members, maybe raise it at this year's AGM. It's the kind of stuff I expect of nasty corrupt clubs like Carltank, not us.

 

[HawkintheTuarts]

Relevant: http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...4-financial-year/story-e6frf3e3-1227102811873

I agree, it is kinda sad a sporting club needing to rely on them. It must be an Eastern thing, just don't understand it myself. Hasn't exactly benefited the NRL in the long run has it?

 

[Matt Stevic]

Yep that's the article which made me start this thread. Anyway, thinking about "profits" is pretty weak, as we're a non profit organisation that doesn't pay company tax.

NRL is a lost cause, poor administration after Super League has ruined that code for good.

 

[GOHORCS]

It is a traditional sporting business model that has a demand. There are a limited amount of licences available which makes good business sense. From a social perspective the use of pokie machines can have a devastating effect on the lives of people and individuals as can alcohol misuse. I feel better about our football club owning the rights to some machines which in turn funds a sporting club that gives back to the community in inspiration to do other things other than sit in front of a machine and put money in it. Many of the other owners of these rights are pubs which are all owned by conglomerates like Wesfarmers who are only interested in profit and give nothing back.
I agree morally with the stance North Melbourne has taken but it is not the responsibility of a sporting club to manage social issues and if all sporting clubs followed suit would only feed the corporate monster.

 

[Hawkinspired]

I'm no accountant but you do have to wonder how we profit 3 million dollars last year and North Melbourne profit 1 million despite a 18 million in extra revenue from pokies.

 

[Davo-27]

wasn't it Jeff Kennett that legalised them in the 90's and then most melbourne clubs copied what the NRL were doing?............they aren't doing anything illegal so whats the point of this article?, people are gonna gamble so i don't see why we shouldn't profit from it, the responsibility should be to the person gambling, not the venue.......so would it be better if we sold our profit making machines so the same people will gamble their money at crown?, this makes no sense...............

getting rid of poker machines from 1-2 venues isn't going to stop people from gambling, all it does is lose money for the sports club........

 

[Davo-27]

I'm no accountant but you do have to wonder how we profit 3 million dollars last year and North Melbourne profit 1 million despite a 18 million in extra revenue from pokies.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...4-financial-year/story-e6frf3e3-1227102811873
"you take a Hawthorn who make about a $4 million net profit out of their gaming business"

 

[beta_condition]

I have to disagree, I see no reason why AFL clubs shouldn't be involved in gambling when you can't watch a sporting event without sportsbet or tomwaterhouse plastered all over the place. There's many vices in this world and people need to take blame from their action and learn self control rather than pointing the finger else where.

 

[B0SK]

Like Tasmania, I would like to hope pokies are a relatively short-term venture for the club.

 

[Davo23]

It's not often when I give North credit, but their positive anti gambling stance must be commended. And I think it's about time for us to follow their lead, and decommission our poker machines. We can't claim to be the family club when we so actively participate in something that breaks up families.

We're a strong enough club now to survive on our own. I understand that post Jackson era,clubs find it harder to survive, but at Hawthorn we can do it. We have 60k members, and lots of recent success for us to grab more. In the end, isn't leeching off helpless families and pensioners just as bad as leeching off the AFL, if not worse?

I don't know if there is anything we can do as members, maybe raise it at this year's AGM. It's the kind of stuff I expect of nasty corrupt clubs like Carltank, not us.

North does get a nice slice of money from the AFL each year, which comes out of our contributions.
So North gets poker money, without trying!

Smart club, North.

 

[Flag08]

There is going to be something unpalatable about major income sources one way or another. Smokes, alcohol, pokies, Tassie, Puma sweat shops, Samsung factory workers, etc....

People will gamble and it's not up to the HFC to set social policy. The HFC is looking after it's family and being as responsible as it can be within current regulations. If people are going to throw money down the toilet, we may as well accept some of it.

 

[rdhopkins2]

I agree that I'd like to see us drop the pokies. I can't see it happening though.

 

[Max Force]

No.
Why should our club give a large part of our revenue up for the sake of a small few who have a disorder? Dogooders trying to take the moral high ground about us being the 'family club' as a justification to do away with pokies that break up families.
Pokies don't break up families, people do, and silly people at that!

Our great club gives back to its supporters,fans & community so much more than it takes from them including the few dopey buggers that can't control thier impulses when it comes to gambling.

How many families & people did our club bring joy to this year compared to how many families it 'broke up' (Syd families aside )?

 

[Agent Smith]

Taking morality out of the equation, removing a venture that gains profit because we're a successfully run club is akin to taking a punt on injured players in the top 10 picks of the National Draft because we 'have a bit to play with'. Wasn't sound thinking at the ND and isn't sound thinking in running the club. After 1996, I refuse to entertain risking the health of my club based on the fact people with little or no self discipline are throwing money at pokies owned by the club. Guess what, if we remove them, they'll go to other pokies instead. Why? Because they have little/no self discipline. And in the end the club loses millions but gets to feel a little better about itself? Yeah, nah. I say, better the profits come to us rather than Lloyd Williams.

 

[Steven Tyler]

No-one is forcing me to sit there hour after hour putting coins in a slot machine!

I've got better things to do with my time!

 

[Hawk Dork]

A tax on poor old ladies is a bit sad.
It didnt seem so bad when pensioners had to get on a bus and go to the Murray to lose some money,now its in the middle of the poorer suburbs 24/7.

 

[Randy Campbell]

If it is not against the law, then no.

I don't like it when people try to stop all people from doing things because some people might have problems.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I hope all those with moral issues with our stake in poker machines don't shop at Woolies.

Like most who bleat on and on about ethical investing - it doesn't take long to find some utter hypocrisy in your standpoint.

I don't hold it against you if you want to be ethical, it's an admirable stand to take. Just don't expect me to take you seriously when you say you don't want to invest in companies that invest in coal, then happily use electricity - or say you don't want to invest in companies that use slave labour while you type away in your iPhone.

Profitability keeps us relevant and succesful. If we don't invest in gaming, someone else will. I also think we'd invest far more heavily in our football department than North Melbourne.

 

[GOHORCS]

I'm no accountant but you do have to wonder how we profit 3 million dollars last year and North Melbourne profit 1 million despite a 18 million in extra revenue from pokies.

It costs a lot of money to photoshop out Lance Franklin from all our merchandise, photos, blogs, articles, kids hearts......

 

[Gold Member]

Yawn.

Moral high horse board...

 

[Steven Tyler]

I hope all those with moral issues with our stake in poker machines don't shop at Woolies.

Like most who bleat on and on about ethical investing - it doesn't take long to find some utter hypocrisy in your standpoint.

I don't hold it against you if you want to be ethical, it's an admirable stand to take. Just don't expect me to take you seriously when you say you don't want to invest in companies that invest in coal, then happily use electricity - or say you don't want to invest in companies that use slave labour while you type away in your iPhone.

Profitability keeps us relevant and succesful. If we don't invest in gaming, someone else will. I also think we'd invest far more heavily in our football department than North Melbourne.

Great point

Reminds me of all the protesters up in arms when a new McDonalds opens up

Just hope and pray these protesters never need to use the fabulous facilities at Ronald McDonald House!

 

[Thaihawk]

wasn't it Jeff Kennett that legalised them in the 90's and then most melbourne clubs copied what the NRL were doing?............they aren't doing anything illegal so whats the point of this article?, people are gonna gamble so i don't see why we shouldn't profit from it, the responsibility should be to the person gambling, not the venue.......so would it be better if we sold our profit making machines so the same people will gamble their money at crown?, this makes no sense...............

getting rid of poker machines from 1-2 venues isn't going to stop people from gambling, all it does is lose money for the sports club........

If not pokies, they will find some other way to gamble.

When I was a kid, there was no TAB, Pokies or Sunday drinking. Did that stop peolpe from feeding their vices? NO!

There was a SP bookie in nearly every bar in Melbourne, you would often find an illegal game of two up in the back lane, and on Sundays everyone who wanted a drink could go to the local 'sly grog' shop for their needs.

To me, gambling is in the same category as drinking, it's a disease, and con only be treated by the individual. Believe me, I know from experience.

 

[Milky Joe]

No-one is forcing me to sit there hour after hour putting coins in a slot machine!

I've got better things to do with my time!

I struggle with responses like this because it tells me that we rarely reflect on what it would be like to be in the shoes of someone else who is less fortunate.

No one is forcing me to play the pokies either, and I've got no interest in them, but that doesn't change the fact that thousands of people sink their life savings into them every year. So if we assume for a moment that those people don't really want to lose their homes/families then perhaps there is something else going on? Perhaps they have an addiction, which is a complex and messy thing? Perhaps the idea that we can just 'decide' not to do things that are destructive to us and our loved ones is a bit simplistic in some instances? If addressing drug/alcohol/gambling addition was as simple as teaching people to 'have some self control', then surely the problem would have been solved long ago?

And I don't buy the 'people will do it any way, so we may as well cash in on their suffering' argument. The Hawthorn Football Club doesn't exist outside of society or outside of a collective sense of morality, so it's absolutely reasonable for supporters to question business decisions they make that have wider social implications.

 

[Hawk Dork]

A transition plan to ethical investments would be a good start.
Apparently there is money in ethical investments too.

 

[Steven Tyler]

I struggle with responses like this because it tells me that we rarely reflect on what it would be like to be in the shoes of someone else who is less fortunate.

No one is forcing me to play the pokies either, and I've got no interest in them, but that doesn't change the fact that thousands of people sink their life savings into them every year. So if we assume for a moment that those people don't really want to lose their homes/families then perhaps there is something else going on? Perhaps they have an addiction, which is a complex and messy thing? Perhaps the idea that we can just 'decide' not to do things that are destructive to us and our loved ones is a bit simplistic in some instances? If addressing drug/alcohol/gambling addition was as simple as teaching people to 'have some self control', then surely the problem would have been solved long ago?

And I don't buy the 'people will do it any way, so we may as well cash in on their suffering' argument. The Hawthorn Football Club doesn't exist outside of society or outside of a collective sense of morality, so it's absolutely reasonable for supporters to question business decisions they make that have wider social implications.

Should we close down Westwaters in Caroline Springs too?
There is pokies there
They serve alcohol there too!
There's even a TAB!

Should we stop because some people have problems, and disregard the ones that don't?