Roast It's time to ditch the pokies

[Max Force]

Yep. It's a balancing act and if the negatives outweigh the positives no amount of individualism philosophy stacks up. And like a poster said earlier (could have been you) personal accountability doesn't cut it when you remember gambling addicts have kids etc. Some kid losing the family home because of Dad's pokie addiction is kind of not that kid's fault

OMG really? In this hypothetical if 'dad' is 'losing the family home', then he has a serious problem & it isn't pokies. Pokies are not designed to lose, you know it, I know & a very high percentage of the public know it. So much has been said about pokies that it would be hard for anyone not to know what they are. What they are not, is some sort of free money machine that you can just use as an income enhancer.

Play to lose & don't forget to chase the losses, that is the choice. Unless you choose other wise & not waste your money on them? The the choice is yours & not mine to make for you.

 

[threesixpio]

OMG really? In this hypothetical if 'dad' is 'losing the family home', then he has a serious problem & it isn't pokies. Pokies are not designed to lose, you know it, I know & a very high percentage of the public know it. So much has been said about pokies that it would be hard for anyone not to know what they are. What they are not, is some sort of free money machine that you can just use as an income enhancer.

Play to lose & don't forget to chase the losses, that is the choice. Unless you choose other wise & not waste your money on them? The the choice is yours & not mine to make for you.

Sure - so what is gained by having something which attracts people with "serious problems". Maybe it is worth it when you balance it all out. What do you think?

 

[Matt Stevic]

Well worth a read...

SHE was the politician shamed and shunned by the party she loved after multiple run-ins with the law.

Caught twice drink driving and once driving while disqualified, the Labor member of 35 years was unceremoniously booted from the party.

And while the name of Carolyn Hirsh was muttered in news headlines and within parliamentary walls during her public downfall in 2006, there was a secret she managed to keep from them all.

It was the reason she downed one too many white wines on the day that would end her political career.

She was addicted to poker machines.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...d-end-her-career/story-fni0fee2-1226881950747

There's a tragic irony that the party she dedicated so much of her life to were the ones that enabled this addiction and brought about her downfall.

Edit: The Labor party could not give any less of a s**t about mental health. The Liberal party is by no means perfect (see Pyne) but these sorts of ill thought out policies ensure no Labor voting by me in the near future.

 

[MightyHawks]

There's a tragic irony that the party she dedicated so much of her life to were the ones that enabled this addiction and brought about her downfall.

Edit: The Labor party could not give any less of a s**t about mental health. The Liberal party is by no means perfect (see Pyne) but these sorts of ill thought out policies ensure no Labor voting by me in the near future.

The argument for bringing in Pokies was to stop Victorians taking bus trips to the clubs on the Murray and losing their $$$ to other states

Should have just brought in the casino and no other pokies venues. Easy to avoid going to the Casino if you have a gambling problem. Not so easy when they are at every local shopping strip

 

[Long Live HFC]

so what is gained by having something which attracts people with "serious problems".

about $18M/year to an awesome footy club

 

[Max Force]

Sure - so what is gained by having something which attracts people with "serious problems". Maybe it is worth it when you balance it all out. What do you think?

People have serious problems with anything really. Alcohol, prescription drugs, cigarettes, food, shopping, night clubs, cars, adrenaline, fuels, aerosols and virtually anything else you can think of, some one will have an issue with it.
There are warning signs everywhere regarding addictions, gambling & compulsions. As too is there help for those that want it, need it & choose to accept it. Many choose not to seek help or ignore it completely until they finaly hit rock bottom. For some this is the only way that they can get advice or help for the choices they themselves make.
I am not pro pokies, far from it. I am pro choice & those that want pokies gone due to a minority who make bad choices regarding the use of pokies, are wanting to dictate to me that I can't or should not be able use pokies.

 

[Brishawk]

People have serious problems with anything really. Alcohol, prescription drugs, cigarettes, food, shopping, night clubs, cars, adrenaline, fuels, aerosols and virtually anything else you can think of, some one will have an issue with it.
There are warning signs everywhere regarding addictions, gambling & compulsions. As too is there help for those that want it, need it & choose to accept it. Many choose not to seek help or ignore it completely until they finaly hit rock bottom. For some this is the only way that they can get advice or help for the choices they themselves make.
I am not pro pokies, far from it. I am pro choice & those that want pokies gone due to a minority who make bad choices regarding the use of pokies, are wanting to dictate to me that I can't or should not be able use pokies.

By far the majority of money wagered on pokies is by problem gamblers. That is the point. The entire business model is problem gamblers. While some people do have problems with booze by far the majority of alcohol consumed is by people who are not alcoholics.

 

[Max Force]

By far the majority of money wagered on pokies is by problem gamblers. That is the point. The entire business model is problem gamblers.

Oh really? A minority with help available for them, they can choose help if they want too.

While some people do have problems with booze by far the majority of alcohol consumed is by people who are not alcoholics.

I think more people would be suffering some effects of withdrawal if alcohol wasn't available than you might think. I am doing dry in July for the challenge that it is & far from being an alcoholic, the temptation that it is, is a reminder to me that apart from it being a poison it is also an addictive drug if not treated with respect & caution.

 

[Brishawk]

Oh really? A minority with help available for them, they can choose help if they want too.



I think more people would be suffering some effects of withdrawal if alcohol wasn't available than you might think. I am doing dry in July for the challenge that it is & far from being an alcoholic, the temptation that it is, is a reminder to me that apart from it being a poison it is also an addictive drug if not treated with respect & caution.

Problem gamblers are not acting based on a rational choice. I'm not suggesting there are not alcoholics however the stats suggest they are a minority. If you stopped them buying booze tomorrow the whole industry wouldn't shut down. If you stopped problem gamblers from betting on pokies it would have a material affect on the industry.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Problem gamblers are not acting based on a rational choice. I'm not suggesting there are not alcoholics however the stats suggest they are a minority. If you stopped them buying booze tomorrow the whole industry wouldn't shut down. If you stopped problem gamblers from betting on pokies it would have a material affect on the industry.

Lose the pokies, and the people with issues go online

Working in the industry for nearly 7 years, I've seen very little problem gambling that has started from gambling

The ones who do, usually have underlying issues
Abusive relationships, drug addiction, some are just plain lonely

As an example, customer would come in nightly, and spend a fair amount
She found herself a bloke, and now gambles at most once per month

Another customer, older, lived alone
She would be in every day
She relocated to a granny flat joined to her sons house

She has since come in once (and that was for lunch)


And my own mother. She was in an abusive relationship
When they finally split, her $1000 a week habit stopped


When pokies were introduced, no one denies there were problems

But nearly 30 years later, there's been significant changes, and it's far from as clear cut as it once was

 

[Matt Stevic]

Working in the industry for nearly 7 years, I've seen very little problem gambling that has started from gambling

The ones who do, usually have underlying issues
Abusive relationships, drug addiction, some are just plain lonely

So does that make them in any less need of help? How hard hearted of you.

 

[Hollins]

Pokies are lucrative and a fairly easy source of revenue.
Morality isn't relevant.
Keep pokies.

 

[Furn2]

Funny how it's about losing the family home yet 53% of Australians can't afford to buy a family home to begin with.

Does anyone actually have a link to any evidence that the majority of money for pokies comes from addicts who are spending money they can't afford ?

The guy only know that pays pokies a lot is a single guy who makes 120k plus in the mines. I've seen him blow $1000 on pokies in a night and wait til midnight to pull another $1000 of the atm. I've seen him blow 3-4k at the cas too. I'd guess he spend 50k gambling a year. That's a full time job for someone isn't it ?

 

[Furn2]

So does that make them in any less need of help? How hard hearted of you.

No but the point he's making is getting rid of pokies alone isn't going to suddenly make these people model citizens.

 

[threesixpio]

Funny how it's about losing the family home yet 53% of Australians can't afford to buy a family home to begin with.

Does anyone actually have a link to any evidence that the majority of money for pokies comes from addicts who are spending money they can't afford ?

The guy only know that pays pokies a lot is a single guy who makes 120k plus in the mines. I've seen him blow $1000 on pokies in a night and wait til midnight to pull another $1000 of the atm. I've seen him blow 3-4k at the cas too. I'd guess he spend 50k gambling a year. That's a full time job for someone isn't it ?

Losing the family home was an example. Is "unsustainable debt leading to financial ruin placing pressure on the family unit" better?

 

[threesixpio]

No but the point he's making is getting rid of pokies alone isn't going to suddenly make these people model citizens.

I know one of "those people". Over the addiction and definitely a model citizen now...so um ...yes it might for some

 

[Max Force]

I know one of "those people". Over the addiction and definitely a model citizen now...so um ...yes it might for some

Ummmm pokies are still here so the person you know who was one of "those people" over came the addiction and is now a model citizen all that & while pokies are still here. I think you've answered your own argument. Pokies are not the problem.

 

[threesixpio]

Ummmm pokies are still here so the person you know who was one of "those people" over came the addiction and is now a model citizen all that & while pokies are still here. I think you've answered your own argument. Pokies are not the problem.

Yep - good thing the person got over it before the person lost everything. Not always the way. It was ONLY pokies - no other form of gambling. I haven't argued against the idea that people shouldn't have personal responsibility. Brishawk is on the $ when he says this is an industry that lives and dies by its preying on addicts. To me pokies are a leech on society. But I feel like people are pretty set in their views in this thread so might leave it at that

 

[Furn2]

I know one of "those people". Over the addiction and definitely a model citizen now...so um ...yes it might for some

And getting rid of pokies was the solution ?

 

[Furn2]

Losing the family home was an example. Is "unsustainable debt leading to financial ruin placing pressure on the family unit" better?

I'm a lot more worried about whether my kid can get a good job and buy a house when he grows up than whether he's going to be addicted to gambling.

 

[threesixpio]

I'm a lot more worried about whether my kid can get a good job and buy a house when he grows up than whether he's going to be addicted to gambling.

?

 

[Dipper]

So does that make them in any less need of help? How hard hearted of you.

I think his observation was that the pokie playing for these people was a symptom of emotional distress rather than a self contained disfunction in its own right.

 

[threesixpio]

I think his observation was that the pokie playing for these people was a symptom of emotional distress rather than a self contained disfunction in its own right.

Don't disagree with this. But some might say it's like chucking a match on a pool of petrol. (Well I would).

Addicts have an emotional make up that requires a combination of insight, external help and abstinence to recover. Like I said earlier in the thread the truth lies somewhere in the middle. No addict gets better just because of changes to the world around them.

 

[Furn2]

?

You're talking about dumping a $20billion a year industry, and 100000 odd jobs so a select few can mostly turn to something else.
There are much closer bigger issues
That government needs to address right now.

Your friend addressed his/her problem and fixed it, but if pokies are all removed, the majority wil turn to something else or find other ways to gamble it's completely different to getting help and facing your problems.

Problem gamblers are 6 times more likely to smoke for example, now I doubt too many took up smoking after they became gambling addicts. There's clearly a predisposition to destructive behaviour there in most cases.

 

[threesixpio]

You're talking about dumping a $20billion a year industry, and 100000 odd jobs so a select few can mostly turn to something else.
There are much closer bigger issues
That government needs to address right now.

Your friend addressed his/her problem and fixed it, but if pokies are all removed, the majority wil turn to something else or find other ways to gamble it's completely different to getting help and facing your problems.

Problem gamblers are 6 times more likely to smoke for example, now I doubt too many took up smoking after they became gambling addicts. There's clearly a predisposition to destructive behaviour there in most cases.

See I don't mind this post. I asked a question earlier which was "is it worth it weighing up the pros and cons" and your post has addressed this