News Jack Frost the only Magpie set to play a full season

[Reykjavik]

Awesome effort, especially when he doubles as a tagger for the Opus Dei first XVIII.

Jack "Silas" Frost is one genuine positive from this season. Now let's make sure we sign him up.

 

[Jonno94]

Top 10 in the league for least goals conceded and top 6 for total 1%ers, yeah not bad.

But hey, let's focus on the negatives, it seems to be all we do around here now.

Does that include the goals we concede from his terrible kicking on constant turnovers?

 

[Scodog10]

Top 10 in the league for least goals conceded and top 6 for total 1%ers, yeah not bad.

But hey, let's focus on the negatives, it seems to be all we do around here now.

Before you provided this information the only positive out of the thread was that a guy has played 22 matches in a row it says a lot about the positivity of our club ATM! From my view if the thread is created with your info it provides a completely different context.

For further perspective I'd love to hear the names of just three footballers from Hawthorn, Fremantle, Geelong and Sydney that have skills comparable with Frost's. I'll give you two Grundy and Dawson, I'm all ears on a third. We already possess Brown and Toovey so what hope have we got of matching those clubs with 3 poor ball users (4 to be blunt with Williams) in our back 6 when they haven't got 3 between them...

Nah better yet everything's peaches and cream currently those pesky negatives can just be ignored because we've absolutely flown home in the second half of the season

 

[TradeDraft]

Should be a toast thread I reckon. You could argue that this was helped by all of our injuries but still a damn solid effort

Would of Been IF there was no News Article with it

 

[TradeDraft]

Before you provided this information the only positive out of the thread was that a guy has played 22 matches in a row it says a lot about the positivity of our club ATM! From my view if the thread is created with your info it provides a completely different context.

For further perspective I'd love to hear the names of just three footballers from Hawthorn, Fremantle, Geelong and Sydney that have skills comparable with Frost's. I'll give you two Grundy and Dawson, I'm all ears on a third. We already possess Brown and Toovey so what hope have we got of matching those clubs with 3 poor ball users (4 to be blunt with Williams) in our back 6 when they haven't got 3 between them...

Nah better yet everything's peaches and cream currently those pesky negatives can just be ignored because we've absolutely flown home in the second half of the season

He let’s De-List Frost then

 

[Scodog10]

He let’s De-List Frost then

I've made my thoughts pretty well known in other threads TD. Despite his flaws he fills a niche at other clubs and I would sacrifice him.

 

[TradeDraft]

I've made my thoughts pretty well known in other threads TD. Despite his flaws he fills a niche at other clubs and I would sacrifice him.

So you think he is a Hack.

So who would take his place? I would not Trust Nathan Brown’s Body

 

[Scodog10]

So you think he is a Hack.

So who would take his place? I would not Trust Nathan Brown’s Body

I don't think he's a "hack" or a "spud" I believe that he's a limited footballer that is capable in a very specific role at AFL level.

I've seen enough of Marsh to be confident that he could fill any role vacated by Frost. Frost is stronger one on one, however he has an almost innate ability to hit the chest of an opponent 30 metres away which negates the stopping advantage. Marsh isn't safe by foot, but what he brings is reliability in that if he turns it over the ball will be 70 metres away. I would also say that Marsh is a better mark overall. So yes they both have flaws, but the overall difference is negligible.

Next I'd ask what areas of Frost's game will we see improvement in through 2015? Can he play any role other than that of a stopper? I'm not just sitting back and saying "piss him off he's no good" and my opinion won't be for everyone I just think we've seen Frost's ceiling and while it's acceptable we aren't shooting up the ladder on the back of it, IMO.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I don't think he's a "hack" or a "spud" I believe that he's a limited footballer that is capable in a very specific role at AFL level.

I've seen enough of Marsh to be confident that he could fill any role vacated by Frost. Frost is stronger one on one, however he has an almost innate ability to hit the chest of an opponent 30 metres away which negates the stopping advantage. Marsh isn't safe by foot, but what he brings is reliability in that if he turns it over the ball will be 70 metres away. I would also say that Marsh is a better mark overall. So yes they both have flaws, but the overall difference is negligible.

Next I'd ask what areas of Frost's game will we see improvement in through 2015? Can he play any role other than that of a stopper? I'm not just sitting back and saying "piss him off he's no good" and my opinion won't be for everyone I just think we've seen Frost's ceiling and while it's acceptable we aren't shooting up the ladder on the back of it, IMO.

So you think we should make Marsh captain then?

 

[Kirby]

Without Frost - Who would of played FB then?

No-one.

What are you on about Dave?

 

[dirts]

I don't think he's a "hack" or a "spud" I believe that he's a limited footballer that is capable in a very specific role at AFL level.

I've seen enough of Marsh to be confident that he could fill any role vacated by Frost. Frost is stronger one on one, however he has an almost innate ability to hit the chest of an opponent 30 metres away which negates the stopping advantage. Marsh isn't safe by foot, but what he brings is reliability in that if he turns it over the ball will be 70 metres away. I would also say that Marsh is a better mark overall. So yes they both have flaws, but the overall difference is negligible.

Next I'd ask what areas of Frost's game will we see improvement in through 2015? Can he play any role other than that of a stopper? I'm not just sitting back and saying "piss him off he's no good" and my opinion won't be for everyone I just think we've seen Frost's ceiling and while it's acceptable we aren't shooting up the ladder on the back of it, IMO.

I'm interested in why you feel we have seen his ceiling. Given his progression over the last 3 years, I think the trend has clearly been upward. Unless you feel he is no better now that he was last year and 2012, but I would think some games this year like queens birthday gave been better.

For a 22 year old 195cm KPD/3rd tall defender with 20 odd games, I would think he still has scope. Not superstar scope, but scope nonetheless

I agree about too many negating players in our back half, but surely Frost hasn't peaked just yet?

 

[mattys123]

A player peaking after 23 senior games at 22 years old as a key defender, oh man the ignore option works gold, one guess who mentioned that (even though I can't see it).

We've found our full back for the next 8-10 years, full backs by absolute definition don't have to be good ball users, they don't even have to be good footballers (as weird as that sounds), their job 90% of the time is to stop the best opposition key forward, and in most games this year Jack has done that.

Nathan Brown is the only comparable player we have on the list, and his "health" problems are of such a concern that having Frost gain valuable experience this year is an absolute godsend.

Ideally we'd start next year with Brown and Frost on the same backline, we could cover Buddy and Tippett, Roughead and Gunston, Sandilands/Clarke and Pavlich, etc etc.

 

[TradeDraft]

A player peaking after 23 senior games at 22 years old as a key defender, oh man the ignore option works gold, one guess who mentioned that (even though I can't see it).

We've found our full back for the next 8-10 years, full backs by absolute definition don't have to be good ball users, they don't even have to be good footballers (as weird as that sounds), their job 90% of the time is to stop the best opposition key forward, and in most games this year Jack has done that.

Nathan Brown is the only comparable player we have on the list, and his "health" problems are of such a concern that having Frost gain valuable experience this year is an absolute godsend.

Ideally we'd start next year with Brown and Frost on the same backline, we could cover Buddy and Tippett, Roughead and Gunston, Sandilands/Clarke and Pavlich, etc etc.

Agree - What he shown this year that he can stop most KPF in the Comp. If we did not have him we would be way lower on the Ladder.

Agree - Look at Presti who hardly got a touch. They are used to stop there Man, Not to get Touches.

Agree that Brown is a very similar player but he has struggled to Play out a season so we need someone like Frost that can be the stopper.

Frost has probably gone past Brown. We could play Brown and Frost in the Backline but would that work to have 2 stoppers down back?

 

[rand corp]

Frost is in his first full season and is only going to get better and better, think he could become one of the best full backs in the game once hes had three or four seasons of experience.

 

[Pie eyed]

Quite often this year Frost and FF have been picnicing up on FF's forward line ...

... Frost is picking daisies ...

... While FF gets up and frollicks gaily on the lead ...

... Frost is nowhere ...

... The ball is about to be marked by FF ...

... then ...

... Frost comes out of 'nowhere' to spoil and save the day!!!

SUPER UBER LIKE.

 

[Robroy22]

Well done Frosty....nothing more needs to be said really.

 

[Vicky Park]

Jack was given a role this year, and he performed. Cant ask for more than that of a second year player, who'd played only 2 or 3 games before 2014. One of our shining lights in our annus horribilus, and constantly under pressure given our often underperfoming mids. Loved his fist work.

 

[Scodog10]

I'm interested in why you feel we have seen his ceiling. Given his progression over the last 3 years, I think the trend has clearly been upward. Unless you feel he is no better now that he was last year and 2012, but I would think some games this year like queens birthday gave been better.

For a 22 year old 195cm KPD/3rd tall defender with 20 odd games, I would think he still has scope. Not superstar scope, but scope nonetheless

I agree about too many negating players in our back half, but surely Frost hasn't peaked just yet?

If we take what Frost does well which is stopping his opponent from kicking goals, winning 50/50 contests and doing the 1%'s he's already in the top handful of guys league wide according to the statistical measures provided by matty.

Therefore I'd ask can he make further gains in those areas? I'd say not really myself and if he does make those further gains the difference will be like comparing Beams with Pendles (much of a muchness in other words).

In order to see improvements in his game he has 5 areas that he and the coaching staff would need to identify, IMO.

1) kicking
2) decision making
3) fumbling
4) intercept marking
5) positioning further afield

One and two are highly unlikely he's played across two seasons with us and is 22 years of age so he isn't improving in those areas and if anything I think he's regressed with those two. Three (while he's shown some improvement) you don't go from a severe fumbler to safe below your knees across a career which is what he'd need to do to take a further step.

Four and five could be where we see some improvement the issue is if he does improve those areas he's confronted with area one and two (chicken or the egg stuff). I think with time Frost would be comparable with Zac Dawson (which is handy when he has the right support players around him) and whenever Zac gets the ball there is a Fremantle player within 1 metre of him to get the handball he always has that outlet option. With guys like Toovey, Williams and Brown when he returns around Frost it's hard to provide that little get out handball.

Sometimes we get caught in our own little world as Collingwood people and though the Jack Frost story is a good one it's no better than the Sam Rowe or Luke Delaney one. At the end of the day all 3 are limited footballers playing for average or poor teams...

FWIW I genuinely hope to be proven wrong because if I am it's for the betterment of the club and everyone on here

 

[Swooop]

So you think we should make Marsh captain then?

So you think Pendles is a spud and should be delisted

 

[Big Bryza]

That's fair enough and I don't want to come across as a hater or anything because with our injury profile his achievement is significant.

I just tend to take the view that we are very quick to wrap up our own when in the grand scheme of things they've achieved little of note and as much as Frost has made strides in 2014 he is an extremely limited footballer.

Far out. It's just as easy to pot blokes as well as wrap them up. Frost has been great this year. Of course his disposal needs work. It will come in time.

Love your work Frosty.

 

[Scodog10]

Far out. It's just as easy to pot blokes as well as wrap them up. Frost has been great this year. Of course his disposal needs work. It will come in time.

Love your work Frosty.

It's a discussion forum if you only want the positives stick to the Collingwood website

The best aspect of this is when Frost finishes top 5 in the B&F and those blinded by the positive light get to gloat over me

 

[cleomenes]

I think that there is a lot left in Frost. With experience, I would expect that he will become even better at negating the top forwards. He might, for instance, gain the Tahlia skill of scragging without giving a free away.
His kicking has depth, but not accuracy. This is a general feature of our down on confidence team. This too, can improve, but is dependent on what the team does. He does not take his eyes off the ball, so I think that his fumbling is confidence based too.

 

[Piestration]

Before you provided this information the only positive out of the thread was that a guy has played 22 matches in a row it says a lot about the positivity of our club ATM! From my view if the thread is created with your info it provides a completely different context.

For further perspective I'd love to hear the names of just three footballers from Hawthorn, Fremantle, Geelong and Sydney that have skills comparable with Frost's. I'll give you two Grundy and Dawson, I'm all ears on a third. We already possess Brown and Toovey so what hope have we got of matching those clubs with 3 poor ball users (4 to be blunt with Williams) in our back 6 when they haven't got 3 between them...

Nah better yet everything's peaches and cream currently those pesky negatives can just be ignored because we've absolutely flown home in the second half of the season

You are correct in saying we can't afford to have 3 average ball users in our backline. Frost will learn from this year and need to improve if he wants to become a permanent in the future. We didn't have the luxury of playing Brown, Tooves and Frost in the same side this year anyway so considering the lack of depth and experience Frost gets an A+ from me. He was asked to stand up and play some huge shut down roles and considering our backline sore more ball than an Elton John weekender, that he did. I can only see upside to this kid and honestly Brown IMO is very injury prone so unfortunately can't be relied upon heading forward and Tooves needs a full preseason under him after the knee recovery. We need a leader down back for our future that is tough, shows heart, leads by example and can command the troups. Frost I think shows all these qualities and will grow to be the core of our wall.

 

[CasuallyDressed]

I think he played injured at times aswell.

Big fan of this guy.

 

[Collingwoodity]

It's a discussion forum if you only want the positives stick to the Collingwood website

The best aspect of this is when Frost finishes top 5 in the B&F and those blinded by the positive light get to gloat over me

You are pushing s**t up a hill.

You actually sound like blaze.