Not really. No 1 draft pick is almost a curse.
Jack Watts
- Thread starter Bunk Moreland
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- May 5, 2006
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The only 'knock' on Gunston is that he's a bit undersized for a key forward. He's tall, but he's not a a big framed guy. Other than that he does everything you want. Leads hard, marks well, kicks goals, works up the ground, applies defensive pressure.
If Jack Watts played for Hawthorn he wouldn't play for Hawthorn, he'd play for Box Hill. Hogan tries hard and looks like he'll be a jet. Dawes tries hard but is average. Pedersen tries hard but is below average. Watts doesn't play with anywhere near the intensity of the others, and I doubt he ever will.
Watts has always lacked intensity. He is a very laconic player who when on song has time to weigh things up and make the right decisions. He is also generally a very good user of the footy. However since round one he has been well off. He played a very good game in round one and looked to have finally started to hit his straps.
I still think he has what it takes to play at least another 100 games however as Melbourne improves and brings in more young talen he will need to pick up his work rate and is possible intensity otherwise he may find himself out of the team. He is unfortunately I believe a player who would play better in a winning side, which he hasn't had the opportunity much at Melbourne.
I terms of being number 1 pick how many number 1's have turned out the best player? probably none or not many. Anyhow I would have thought Jack Watts would have shown a bit more for a number 1.
I still think he has what it takes to play at least another 100 games however as Melbourne improves and brings in more young talen he will need to pick up his work rate and is possible intensity otherwise he may find himself out of the team. He is unfortunately I believe a player who would play better in a winning side, which he hasn't had the opportunity much at Melbourne.
I terms of being number 1 pick how many number 1's have turned out the best player? probably none or not many. Anyhow I would have thought Jack Watts would have shown a bit more for a number 1.
Upgrayedd
A Vote for Clive is a Vote for Justice
Not against freo but round 4 he made some shocking turnovers. Where he didnt play with urgency and turned the ball over while switching play to open the angles
I dont think he has it TBO. I wouldnt be suprised if he was dropped soon
I dont think he has it TBO. I wouldnt be suprised if he was dropped soon
What I don't get is why opposition supporters are so obsessed with this guy failing. Is it because he was the no. 1 pick in a supposed Superdraft? Well, in hindsight, 2008 is still filled with players "yet to reach their potential", so maybe it's not the Superdraft we all thought.
Melbourne supporters are different, they're invested in his progress and his career. But it seems opposition supporters feel good about themselves whenever they get the chance to lay the boot in.
What's the point?
Melbourne supporters are different, they're invested in his progress and his career. But it seems opposition supporters feel good about themselves whenever they get the chance to lay the boot in.
What's the point?
- Thread starter
- #356
Can only speak for myself but I just find it fascinating... sure you see high draft picks and number 1 picks failing - you could argue the majority of them have - but I've never seen a guy so highly touted who just looks so incredibly out of place on a footy field.
Watching Watts at times seems like watching one of those late converts to the game, like some American athlete that a club had tried to turn into a footballer etc. Athletic and quality ball skills etc, but just appears to have zero feel or intensity for the contest - and ultimately the game is all about the physical contest.
Instead you're actually watching the guy who was at one stage rated as the best teenage football prodigy in the land. And it's not a Melbourne thing specifically, by the sounds of it many if not most clubs rated him as number 1.
I also don't understand the "imagine him at a top side" views. I simply don't see how he'd get a game. This is a guy who I assume has been playing footy since his early teens at the latest, and now professional football for over five years, and he still just has no consistent willingness to embrace the most fundamental aspect of the game - the physical contest. We've all seen him at Melbourne - what if he were playing in finals etc with the intensity and pressure?? You can only conclude he'd be worse.
I can understand an argument of a bit of a stunt in senior development at Melbourne, but I think his issues are far more fundamental than that, and were shaped long before he got to AFL level. He still hasn't sorted them and the knock on him now is identical to that 5 years ago. Surely Melbourne and Roos must be reaching the end of their tether.
So you're basing it all on the fact he was rated highly at 17 years old?
Whose development has gone through 5 coaches with 5 different gameplans since?
If the knock on him is identical to that 5 years ago - how are you not bored by the Jack Watts story by now? Surely you would have jumped off if it's the same story?
It's a strange obsession.
Found this article ...
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-best-no1-draft-picks-ever-20130627-2ozfc.html
1986 Martin Leslie Brisbane 107
1987 Richard Lounder Richmond 4
1988 Alex McDonald Hawthorn 107
1989 Anthony Banik Richmond 49
1990 Stephen Hooper Geelong 21
1991 John Hutton Brisbane 36
1992 Drew Banfield West Coast 265
1993 Darren Gaspar Sydney 228
1994 Jeff White Fremantle 268
1995 Clive Waterhouse Fremantle 106
1996 Michael Gardiner West Coast/St Kilda 181
1997 Travis Johnstone Melbourne 209
1998 Des Headland Brisbane 166
1999 Josh Fraser Collingwood 218
2000 Nick Riewoldt St Kilda 250
2001 Luke Hodge Hawthorn 216
2002 Brendon Goddard St Kilda 217
2003 Adam Cooney W. Bulldogs 192
2004 Brett Deledio Richmond 184
2005 Marc Murphy Carlton 154
2006 Bryce Gibbs Carlton 143
2007 Matthew Kreuzer Carlton 97
2008 Jack Watts Melbourne 63
2009 Tom Scully Melbourne 62
2010 David Swallow Gold Coast 45
2011 Jonathon Patton GWS 10
2012 Lachie Whitfield GWS 11
2013 Tom Boyd Gold Coast
2014 Patrick McCartin St Kilda
Can't be bothered going through and updating the games / current clubs etc... but there are some spuds mixed in with absolute guns in there.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-best-no1-draft-picks-ever-20130627-2ozfc.html
1986 Martin Leslie Brisbane 107
1987 Richard Lounder Richmond 4
1988 Alex McDonald Hawthorn 107
1989 Anthony Banik Richmond 49
1990 Stephen Hooper Geelong 21
1991 John Hutton Brisbane 36
1992 Drew Banfield West Coast 265
1993 Darren Gaspar Sydney 228
1994 Jeff White Fremantle 268
1995 Clive Waterhouse Fremantle 106
1996 Michael Gardiner West Coast/St Kilda 181
1997 Travis Johnstone Melbourne 209
1998 Des Headland Brisbane 166
1999 Josh Fraser Collingwood 218
2000 Nick Riewoldt St Kilda 250
2001 Luke Hodge Hawthorn 216
2002 Brendon Goddard St Kilda 217
2003 Adam Cooney W. Bulldogs 192
2004 Brett Deledio Richmond 184
2005 Marc Murphy Carlton 154
2006 Bryce Gibbs Carlton 143
2007 Matthew Kreuzer Carlton 97
2008 Jack Watts Melbourne 63
2009 Tom Scully Melbourne 62
2010 David Swallow Gold Coast 45
2011 Jonathon Patton GWS 10
2012 Lachie Whitfield GWS 11
2013 Tom Boyd Gold Coast
2014 Patrick McCartin St Kilda
Can't be bothered going through and updating the games / current clubs etc... but there are some spuds mixed in with absolute guns in there.
Upgrayedd
A Vote for Clive is a Vote for Justice
i noticed the bronx cheers when the game was over and he started working over johnson under the ball...could of been handy in the first 15 minutes
I doubt West Coast and Fremantle would have, maybe everyone else.
Melbourne had a poor record of developing players up until a few years ago.
Perhaps just coincidence with ordinary players. Who knows?
I would be happy for the Pies to grab him if he was offered for a late pick or fringe player.
- Banned
- #364
Since 1995, 4/16 are duds IMO so 3/4 chance of having a good to great player.
Duds ...
Watts
Waterhouse
Kreuzer (only because of his body)
Scully
Good Players but not stars
Headland
Fraser
Johnstone
Gardiner
Stars
everyone else
* jury still out on whitfield, boyd, mccartin etc
*took from 1995 as more of this modern era of real pro scouts from clubs.
Duds ...
Watts
Waterhouse
Kreuzer (only because of his body)
Scully
Good Players but not stars
Headland
Fraser
Johnstone
Gardiner
Stars
everyone else
* jury still out on whitfield, boyd, mccartin etc
*took from 1995 as more of this modern era of real pro scouts from clubs.
- Thread starter
- #365
An obsession? Huh?
I started one thread about him after I watched a couple of Melbourne games.
It's just a football discussion on a football discussion board. I'd hardly call it an obsession. I do find his story interesting.
democritus
Club Legend
Wash your mouth out. One of the all time greats.
Upgrayedd
A Vote for Clive is a Vote for Justice
Not exactly. Melbourne needed a KPP. Jack watts was a KPP. I dont think its as clear cut as that. West coast would of taken naitanui. Freo had stephen hill as the clear pick for them as well.
Tulip
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He needs to get to a club that can win a couple of games, but isn't coached by a complete hardarse ala. Sylvia who he still has a much better attitude than.
He'd be good at Essendon or Port, for example.
He'd be good at Essendon or Port, for example.
I wouldn't mind him at EFC.
His story, that accordingly to you hasn't changed in 5 years, is interesting. Gotcha.
In reality, he's a high skilled, highly athletic player with height that so far hasn't got the mongrel to dominate the way his tools suggest he should. That's been the story. It's still the story. The only time it should keep being brought up is if he changes it around, not keeping piling on the kid because he still isn't performing.
Whipping boy stories are boring unless they turn it around, and that's the way it should be seen, but on BigFooty especially, it seems once a player turns it around THAT is when the story is boring. Always focussing on the negative.
Brendan Goddard used to cop flak, then he had two great years and now he's just another player that isn't worth discussing.
Bryce Gibbs used to cop flak, then he had a great season and no one cared... now he's struggling again, LET'S TALK ABOUT HIM!
Why everyone is so obsessed with players failing is beyond me. On top of that, if someone posts a thread trying to pump up a player, they're shot down! "He's had one good game, overreaction much?", "*insert team* board", etc.
Imagine if you got held against how you performed against your peers when you were 17. For the rest of your life. Would you find it maybe a trifle unfair?
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Who has jack watts had delivering him the ball, and who has he had in Melbourne's forward line to take the no 1 or 2 defenders.
Put watts into hawthorn's fwd line a few years ago with Franklin and roughie where he'd play as the third tall and have a good midfield kicking him the ball he'd be a different player.
Has skills and smarts. He's not a player to build a club around and he's not elite. But he's a good player who has had the world on his shoulders from day one.
Cf gunston who had similar concerns in the early days and look where they have gone in their careers. Gunston has developed into an elite forward and watts is stagnating on the brink of Melbourne's 22.
He wouldn't dislodge gunston but he'd likely still play as a role player.
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Does anyone remember James McDonald's older brother Alex? Pick #1 in the 1988 National Draft, played 46 games in seven seasons with Hawthorn, and never really looked comfortable at the level, due to his skinny body and injury woes. Spent a further four seasons and 61 games as an average tagger at Collingwood, and never really lived up to his draft position or potential.
Obviously the draft was far more of an inexact science back then, however there's a lot of similarities in how McDonald seemed back then, and Watts is now. Sometimes gun juniors just don't adapt to the senior level, because the way the game is played and the physical and mental attributes needed for success are different, and some just can't grow and bridge the gap.
Hawkas1988
Norm Smith Medallist
Mate i get your argument on development but there is a clear difference between Gunston and Watts.
One has an extremely hard work ethic and competitive streak. Gunston loves the rough stuff.
Watts is the opposite. Watts doesn't have the will to run to consecutive contests and do what is needed to be the very best he can be. That is one of Gunston's underrated strengths.
Simply one has heart and the other doesn't. This is ingrained and not something that can be changed dramatically.
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This guy gets it.
How good would Jesse Hogan be at Hawthorn instead of Melbourne? Or Chris Dawes? Or Cam Pedersen? These guys try at Melbourne and get mixed results due to talent, supply etc.
Watts just doesn't play with the same intensity.
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