Traded Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]

[Keystone agony]

Newnes and your 2nd rounder then

 

[Halorad]

StKilda's management would not be doing their job if they offered a fair deal when they had the leverage to avoid it.
Essendon really shouldn't have pissed Carlisle off so much.

But as I explained,you don't have the leverage We pick before you in the pre season draft. So if you try and * us over we still have a back up plan.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Maybe not. Probably not. But my argument to him would be "we aren't leaving you in the lurch, we'll give you a cast-iron guarantee that we'll take you in the PSD, and if you find another club before that then we'll be disappointed but we'll understand".

Players might have a reasonable expectation that, after making a commitment and nominating a club, their new club would follow up and get a reasonable deal done rather than putting them in a position where they have to shaft their old club by entering the draft.

 

[RoundCubic]

Players might have a reasonable expectation that, after making a commitment and nominating a club, their new club would follow up and get a reasonable deal done rather than putting them in a position where they have to shaft their old club by entering the draft.

That's a bit rich coming from a West Coast fan hows Jamie Cripps working out for you

 

[Defacto]

Players might have a reasonable expectation that, after making a commitment and nominating a club, their new club would follow up and get a reasonable deal done rather than putting them in a position where they have to shaft their old club by entering the draft.

Tim membrey, josh bruce, billy longer and dylan roberton say hi

 

[Sweet Jesus]

That a bit rich coming from a West Coast fan hows Jamie Cripps working out for you

How is it rich? My post was about not forcing a player into the draft. WC didn't do that. So I fail to see any contradiction.

And Cripps joined as a fringe player with 16 games under his belt. What did you expect in return?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Tim membrey, josh bruce, billy longer and dylan roberton say hi

Is this a thing people say now?

Say hi back to them for me. I guess. Is that how it works?

What point are you trying to make mentioning these players?

Which of these players' situations were comparable to the current one with Carlisle?

 

[reincarnated]

Hi guys, I just wanted to say that apparently Essendon are hard to deal with. Has anyone else heard this?

 

[RoundCubic]

So you just admitted you won't offer a fair deal?

Alrighty then...

Please just go back and look at the recent history of trade deals and give us an example of a uncontracted player that went for that value not contracted but uncontracted.
Patrick Ryder was contracted till next year a consistently better player then Carlisle and went for less

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

So, has Dodoro asked for one of Alan Richardson's children yet?

 

[RoundCubic]

How is it rich? My post was about not forcing a player into the draft. WC didn't do that. So I fail to see any contradiction.

And Cripps joined as a fringe player with 16 games under his belt. What did you expect in return?

Where do you get the fringe. Cripps was our 1st round draft pick in 2010 and very highly rated was developing as you would expect (10 disposals and nearly a goal a game) and West Coast refused to deal. The silly thing was the saints just wanted Mitchell Brown because the Saints were/are so short defenders and Brown still can't break into West Coast but you wanted depth.
Trading uncontracted players is not fair look at your on teams recent history before talking junk

It was 16 games out of 44, 12 in his second year pretty good for a 2nd year player maybe we can get Nakia Cockatoo for our 3rd he only played 11 this year.

West Coast built its team raiding the best young homesick WA players and good on ya but don't act like you play it fair and don't expect us to be any different to any other club

 

[Sweaty]

How is it rich? My post was about not forcing a player into the draft. WC didn't do that. So I fail to see any contradiction.

And Cripps joined as a fringe player with 16 games under his belt. What did you expect in return?

16 goals from 16 games, he had shown quite a lot, enough to justify a pick in the 20s (we took him at 24). We were reamed on that trade and you know it.

 

[rusman]

Please just go back and look at the recent history of trade deals and give us an example of a uncontracted player that went for that value not contracted but uncontracted.
Patrick Ryder was contracted till next year a consistently better player then Carlisle and went for less

Reasonable trades for uncontracted players (I think uncontracted correct me if I'm wrong)
Beams - Jack Crisp / Pick 5 / Pick 25
Dawes - 20 odd
Burgoyne - 2 first rounders
Judd
Wellingham back in the day was around 18
Mitch Clarke - 12

Pretty strict criteria you have given, there hasn't been that many uncontracted notable player trades as the system has been traditionally more difficult to deliver fair value (no future picks). Give us a bunch of lop sided ones?


Edit: looks like beams was contracted

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Where do you get the fringe from. Cripps was our 1st round draft pick in 2010 and very highly rated was developing as you would expect (10 disposals and nearly a goal a game) and West Coast refused to deal.

You drafted him with pick 24. He played 16 games over two seasons. What did you expect to get in return under those circumstances?

WC didn't refuse to deal. WC traded picks to get him.

Again, my earlier post was about forcing a player into the draft. How is Cripps going to WC relevant to that?

The silly thing was the saints just wanted Mitchell Brown because the Saints were/are so short defenders and Brown still can't break into West Coast but you wanted depth.

Brown was contracted. Clubs have a right to enforce contracts.

Trading uncontracted players is not fair look at your on teams recent history before talking junk

I can barely decipher this.

You took issue with me saying players might expect a new club to facilitate a deal rather than making them shaft their old club by going into the draft. You said this was "rich" because of what happened with Cripps. I still don't understand why, given Cripps didn't go into the draft and a deal was agreed involving picks. It seems like an obviously bogus, obviously unrelated parallel.

It was 16 games out of 44, 12 in his second year pretty good for a 2nd year player maybe we can get Nakia Cockatoo for our 3rd he only played 11 this year.

Like I said, he played 16 games over two seasons.

WC may have got the better end of the deal but a deal was still agreed. So what does this example have to do with players being forced into the draft?

It's like you've just got an ill-directed grievance about the Cripps deal and are trying desperately to connect it to this other, unrelated issue.

West Coast built its team raiding the best young homesick WA players and good on ya but don't act like you play it fair and don't expect us to be any different to any other club

Is that how WC built its team? Not sure about that.

WC have also lost their share of go-homers.

Either way, I'm not sure how that relates to St Kilda getting Carlisle? Is Carlisle's homesickness making him leave Essendon for St Kilda?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

16 goals from 16 games, he had shown quite a lot, enough to justify a pick in the 20s (we took him at 24). We were reamed on that trade and you know it.

He played 16 games in two seasons. He was a fringe player.

WC may have got the better end of the deal but a deal was still agreed. So how is this a counterpoint to my earlier comments about clubs not dealing and instead forcing players into the draft?

That's not what happened with Cripps so why is it relevant?

 

[RoundCubic]

You drafted him with pick 24. He played 16 games over two seasons. What did you expect to get in return under those circumstances?

WC didn't refuse to deal. WC traded picks to get him.

Again, my earlier post was about forcing a player into the draft. How is Cripps going to WC relevant to that?

Brown was contracted. Clubs have a right to enforce contracts.

I can barely decipher this.

You took issue with me saying players might expect a new club to facilitate a deal rather than making them shaft their old club by going into the draft. You said this was "rich" because of what happened with Cripps. I still don't understand why, given Cripps didn't go into the draft and a deal was agreed involving picks. It seems like an obviously bogus, obviously unrelated parallel.

2010 was the Gold Coast year that was our 1st pick we accepted something as better then nothing because he wanted to go home and now Essendon has a similar responsibility as you would see it to facilitate a move not the other way around. Otherwise WC should have given us at least a 2nd by the reverse logic.
Please enjoy your success and I hope WC keep making Lyon look like a joke but don't try to claim the Saints have to pay a "fair" deal for Carlisle because its just nonsense

 

[Roosurgence]

StKilda's management would not be doing their job if they offered a fair deal when they had the leverage to avoid it.
Essendon really shouldn't have pissed Carlisle off so much.

What leverage do you have? He has nominated your club means jack s**t, Essendon can choose to send him to the draft and get nothing and he's off to Carlton.

I think leverage is some magical s**t people on BF come up with to justify why their club should be a stingy pack of arseholes.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

2010 was the Gold Coast year that was our 1st pick we accepted something as better then nothing because he wanted to go home and now Essendon has a similar responsibility as you would see it to facilitate a move not the other way around.

I merely pointed out that, at pick 24, that's not really a first-rounder in general terms.

Otherwise WC should have given us at least a 2nd by the reverse logic.

Not sure what 'reverse logic' means. Or how you reached that conclusion.

Please enjoy your success and I hope WC keep making Lyon look like a joke but don't try to claim the Saints have to pay a "fair" deal for Carlisle because its just nonsense

Please go back and read what I said.

I said a player in Carlisle's position might have a reasonable expectation that his new club – after courting him and getting him to nominate them – would follow up and get a deal done, rather than forcing to shaft his old club by forcing him into the draft.

I still don't know what Cripps leaving St Kilda has to do with this. Cripps wasn't forced into the draft so it's a totally unrelated example.

 

[Donakebab]

2010 was the Gold Coast year that was our 1st pick we accepted something as better then nothing because he wanted to go home and now Essendon has a similar responsibility as you would see it to facilitate a move not the other way around. Otherwise WC should have given us at least a 2nd by the reverse logic.
Please enjoy your success and I hope WC keep making Lyon look like a joke but don't try to claim the Saints have to pay a "fair" deal for Carlisle because its just nonsense

What utter garbage. Essendon has a responsibility to get the best deal possible.

 

[hollywood23]

Here is a tip for all you expert St Kilda supporters - stop embarrassing your fellow knowledgable Saints fans with the garbage you are posting in this thread. Especially Defacto.

Every reasonable person knows that pick 5 will be involved. This may involve the Saints getting later picks back, but it is a fair and equitable trade for both parties. Essendon loses a gun CHB, Saints gain a gun CHB - pay the price to get the gun. You already are $$$ wise.

 

[TerryWallet]

He played 16 games in two seasons. He was a fringe player.

WC may have got the better end of the deal but a deal was still agreed. So how is this a counterpoint to my earlier comments about clubs not dealing and instead forcing players into the draft?

That's not what happened with Cripps so why is it relevant?

StKilda will be offering a deal for Carlisle.

It will be up to Essendon to accept it or not.

It will not be StKilda sending Carlisle to the draft, it would be Essendon if they don't accept the final deal offered.

StKilda will offer Essendon a "reasonable" trade for Carlisle...just like WC offered a "reasonable" trade for Cripps.

How is that "StKilda forcing him into the draft"?

The Carlisle trade will be done, but if it isn't, it isn't StKilda sending him to the draft. As long as the offered trade isn't patently ridiculous that is.

StKilda hold all the cards. But they will be "fair". As in, a deal that suits them and a deal that Essendon can reluctantly accept.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Hi guys, I just wanted to say that apparently Essendon are hard to deal with. Has anyone else heard this?

No. Please tell us more.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

StKilda will be offering a deal for Carlisle.

It will be up to Essendon to accept it or not.

It will not be StKilda sending Carlisle to the draft, it would be Essendon if they don't accept the final deal offered.

It could be cast that way. But if you look at the initial post I was responding to, you'll see it came from a Saints supporter floating this outcome far more explicitly.

I merely pointed out that Carlisle – or any player – might reasonably expect his new club to get a deal done instead of ushering him toward the PSD.

StKilda will offer Essendon a "reasonable" trade for Carlisle...just like WC offered a "reasonable" trade for Cripps.

That remains to be seen.

Certainly these two players are not of equivalent value. Reasonable for Carlisle would far exceed reasonable for Cripps.

StKilda hold all the cards. But they will be "fair". As in, a deal that suits them and a deal that Essendon can reluctantly accept.

I'd suggest their first pick would need to be involved for it to be credible. Not as a straight swap but as one of the chips.

This talk of pick 23 and Hickey is not credible.

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

StKilda's management would not be doing their job if they offered a fair deal when they had the leverage to avoid it.
Essendon really shouldn't have pissed Carlisle off so much.

 

[RoundCubic]

Reasonable trades for uncontracted players (I think uncontracted correct me if I'm wrong)
Beams - Jack Crisp / Pick 5 / Pick 25
Dawes - 20 odd
Burgoyne - 2 first rounders
Judd
Wellingham back in the day was around 18
Mitch Clarke - 12

Pretty strick criteria you have given, there hasn't been that many uncontracted notable player trades as the system has been traditionally more difficult to deliver fair value (no future picks). Give us a bunch of lop sided ones?


Edit: looks like beams was contracted

Its late but Beams was contracted and if Carlisle was contracted we wouldn't have chased him
Dawes and Clark well Stkilda is not Melbourne and your on shaky ground when you use Melbourne for and draft/trade example
Judd the best player in a generation every team would have payed any contract in PSD
Wellingham would have been drafted on his early form and if Essendon was talking about pick 18 not pick 5 I wouldn't have anything to say pick 24 plus player or 3rd is much closer to 18 then 5
now back to the Socceroos