Traded Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]

[foj1]

Without a third club it is probably the best we can hope for. Fairytale stuff to think we will get pick 5 straight out and even getting 5 whilst giving something back to them doesnt sound like it will happen.

It will happen.
The saints will get our second rounder to give to Collingwood for freeman.
We get pick 5
St Kilda get Carlisle and freeman
Collingwood get 23
Hickey and Ross are just not what we need
Leuenberger is free if he chooses us
Ross is a one paced mid we have too many already
No sane Essendon supporter believes 5 outright for Carlisle happens

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

With regards to Seb Ross, just like his cousin Jobe and so many other "slower big bodied inside mids", like David Mundy, Josh Kennedy, our own David Armitage and Michael Barlow, he was always expected to take a while to show his best at AFL level, due to the fact that he didn't naturally have great endurance. He was never someone who was just going to go "bang" as soon as he stepped into an AFL club, like some do and was always going to be a slow burn, as he built his endurance. That lack of natural endurance has also meant that he hasn't been able to spend a lot of time in the inside midfield role that he is by far best suited to. He has spent a lot of time in outside or flank roles that he is really not that suited to, hence him not exactly having set the world on fire to this point in his career.

He has gradually been getting better with each season though and finished last year (2014) in our senior team and importantly he then started to come top 6 or so in time trials last preseason, which indicated that his endurance was starting to reach the necessary levels to be able to play a mainly midfield role. As I posted earlier in the year, he was the one I was hearing over the preseason the club were most expecting to have a real breakout season this year.

His preseason form reflected this and he was looking every bit like he was going to be in our best 22 for the year and he was BOG or near enough to it in the NAB Challenge game to the point in the 3rd quarter where he tore his hammy really badly and I think it's fair to say that injury derailed his season. The hamstring was so badly torn that it needed to be operated on and he missed the next 3 or so months and then made his return to the seniors in round 10 and played 10 of our last 13 games.

He played from R10 to R15, but had a poor game that day and was dropped, but then returned to the team in R19 and played the last 5 games, not having less than 19 possies in any of those 5 games and importantly spending between 80 and 85% of those games on the ground, the first time in his career that he's been able to do that.

So his career trajectory has been on a consistently upward trajectory from his first season and until his serious injury late in the preseason he was looking like having a breakout type season this year and 100% being in our best 22, so how much higher it goes remains to be seen, just like with all those other slower "big bodied inside mids" I mentioned earlier who took until their early-to-mid 20's to really start to hit their straps at AFL level.

What do your saints insiders think about seb being traded? Is he open to it? (not that I think he's worth it, just interested)

 

[foj1]

I think that a third team will need to be involved to get this deal done, With either Saints trading a second rounders and Hickey to Sydney for a First rounder then on trading the first rounder to Essendon for Carlisle

Or Pick 5 and Second round for Adelaide's pick 9 and 13, then on trade pick 13 for Carlisle

Why would Adelaide do it?
Unless they could guarantee Francis is available wouldn't they take 9 and 13 and get a milera and a bonner type?

 

[aussierulesrules]

It will happen.
The saints will get our second rounder to give to Collingwood for freeman.

What is with this obsession some of you guys seem to have with us needing your 2nd rounder for Freeman?

We have two of our own that we could just as easily trade one of for him, alternatively we also have two 3rd rounders that we could trade for him, which they could then on-trade to GWS, who would use them in these next two drafts for their academy selections.

Some of you are acting as though we desperately need another 2nd rounder for Freeman when there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that that is the case!!

 

[foj1]

Would not get both for pick 5

I'm sorry what do you mean?
I think Essendon would give up 23 for freeman to get to you

 

[foj1]

What is with this obsession some of you guys seem to have with us needing your 2nd rounder for Freeman?

We have two of our own that we could just as easily trade one of for him, alternatively we also have two 3rd rounders that we could trade for him, which they could then on-trade to GWS, who would use them in these next two drafts for their academy selections.

Some of you are acting as though we desperately need another 2nd rounder for Freeman when there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that that is the case!!

Sorry how do you have 2 second round picks?
I have missed that.

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

What is with this obsession some of you guys seem to have with us needing your 2nd rounder for Freeman?

We have two of our own that we could just as easily trade one of for him, alternatively we also have two 3rd rounders that we could trade for him, which they could then on-trade to GWS, who would use them in these next two drafts for their academy selections.

Some of you are acting as though we desperately need another 2nd rounder for Freeman when there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that that is the case!!

it's not about desperation.. its about giving you a pick so you can use your own picks in the draft..

 

[Richter]

What do your saints insiders think about seb being traded? Is he open to it? (not that I think he's worth it, just interested)

Been hinted that Seb might be open to it, but bigger mail on Hickey being open for more opportunity. Possibly at the Doggies as he would fit for them.

 

[Richter]

it's not about desperation.. its about giving you a pick so you can use your own picks in the draft..

The difficulty is that we have picks 5, 24 and 42, whilst the targets we have are worth around 12 (Carlisle) and 32 (Freeman) IMO.

 

[pinot]

pick 5 = 1878 points
Jake is uncontracted and has WADA worst case scenario is 800 points best case is 1000 points if Saint Kilda really want him.

That leaves between 800 points to 1000 points or pick 24-17

Essendon trading Carlisle and pick 23 for pick 5 is super trading and fair enough on points bidding system. Having pick 4 + 5 in this draft is just super if they get it done.

Still think the Saints would prefer to hold onto pick 5 but Carlisle + pick 23 + 24 + 42 isn't too bad either. Only thing is Carlisle has been rubbish for two years and guys with big attitude problems are a risk.

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

pick 5 = 1878 points
Jake is uncontracted and has WADA worst case scenario is 800 points best case is 1000 points if Saint Kilda really want him.

That leaves between 800 points to 1000 points or pick 24-17

Essendon trading Carlisle and pick 23 for pick 5 is super trading and fair enough on points bidding system. Having pick 4 + 5 in this draft is just super if they get it done.

Still think the Saints would prefer to hold onto pick 5 but Carlisle + pick 23 + 24 + 42 isn't too bad either. Only thing is Carlisle has been rubbish for two years and guys with big attitude problems are a risk.

carlisle has been rubbish for 2 years...
spare me.

 

[pinot]

carlisle has been rubbish for 2 years...
spare me.

hes been garbage - has talent no denying it but in terms of output pick 50 + on his past two years

 

[bird_man]

5 won't be going anywhere, even with Essendons second coming back.

The likely trades are...

1. 2 second round picks
2. 2nd round pick and Seb Ross
3. Pick 14 traded from Sydney for 2 second rounders (St Kilda would have to trade out a player to get this)

I'm not sure I remember too many clubs that have been big winners in a trade for an uncontracted player. Pick 5 for Carlisle would be a big win for Essendon, can't see it happening.

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

hes been garbage - has talent no denying it but in terms of output pick 50 + on his past two years

as I said, spare me pinot.

 

[aussierulesrules]

What do your saints insiders think about seb being traded? Is he open to it? (not that I think he's worth it, just interested)

The opinions are mixed on our board on here for instance. Most of us can see that there is definitely the potential for him to continue to improve to the level where he will be a part of our starting midfield soon enough and could end up like Armo and all those others I mentioned, and some are consequently adamant that they don't want us to trade him, while there are others like me who realise that we have to give something to get something and think that even if he ends up really good, that we have a few similar types to him already (in particular Dunstan, who is very similar, plus Armo, with Acres and Billings expected to progress to midfield roles very soon, etc) and that it would be more palatable for us to lose our 2nd rounder and Seb than to lose a top 5 pick. If we felt like losing Seb was going to cost our inside stocks long term then we could also grab Rhys Mathieson with pick 5 in the draft, as it looks like Parish and Francis will be gone and that he is the next best "mid".

There has been some talk that he is open to the move to Essendon where there is such a family connection, especially if he thought he'd be more certain of getting a game there, which he may or may not be.

Very similar story with Hickey. Opinions are very divided on our board as to whether we should trade him or not, with some seeing him being an integral part of our team going forward (largely due to the sub rule being abolished and the likelihood of teams returning to playing two ruck options again) and others again thinking we need to give something to get something and that losing him would be easier to swallow than losing a top 5 pick.

He's played some very good individual games of footy though (a big part of the reason we traded McEvoy to years ago) and basically spent this year learning how to play forward (even in the VFL he played almost exclusively forward, to learn the craft), so if we keep him I'm expecting him to play a lot more games for us next year, in the forward/ruck role, in combination with Longer. By far he is more suited to the no.1 ruck role though, but the club obviously see Longer as being better there, a bit like how Carlisle was behind Hurley and Hooker for a key defensive post at Essendon.

 

[bird_man]

It will happen.
The saints will get our second rounder to give to Collingwood for freeman.
We get pick 5
St Kilda get Carlisle and freeman
Collingwood get 23
Hickey and Ross are just not what we need
Leuenberger is free if he chooses us
Ross is a one paced mid we have too many already
No sane Essendon supporter believes 5 outright for Carlisle happens

No it won't, if Essendon won't accept a deal with our second round picks we will find a way to get a pick in the low teens to trade for him, it won't be that hard. Pick 5 is gold and overs for an uncontracted player like Carlisle.

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

No it won't, if Essendon won't accept a deal with our second round picks we will find a way to get a pick in the low teens to trade for him, it won't be that hard. Pick 5 is gold and overs for an uncontracted player like Carlisle.

Yes.

Get 2 teens picks, somehow.
Trade 1 to ess, get carlisle (no second coming back)

Done deal. We get a pick to his worth, you get a first.

 

[pinot]

No it won't, if Essendon won't accept a deal with our second round picks we will find a way to get a pick in the low teens to trade for him, it won't be that hard. Pick 5 is gold and overs for an uncontracted player like Carlisle.

Yeah pick 5 is too valuable for an uncontracted player unless its a Judd, Dangerfield, Goldstein, Fyfe - agree

 

[aussierulesrules]

Sorry how do you have 2 second round picks?
I have missed that.

You missed the announcement that teams could trade future picks from this year onwards?

 

[foj1]

You missed the announcement that teams could trade future picks from this year onwards?

Of course fair enough
Geez the next week is going to be interesting

 

[The Bomb]

How does the club that is losing an uncontracted player walk out the big winners? It rarely happens.

Houli / Hibberd
Lovett / Carlisle / Pick 5????
Crameri / Merrett
Ryder / Langford

 

[Donakebab]

pick 5 = 1878 points
Jake is uncontracted and has WADA worst case scenario is 800 points best case is 1000 points if Saint Kilda really want him.

That leaves between 800 points to 1000 points or pick 24-17

Essendon trading Carlisle and pick 23 for pick 5 is super trading and fair enough on points bidding system. Having pick 4 + 5 in this draft is just super if they get it done.

Still think the Saints would prefer to hold onto pick 5 but Carlisle + pick 23 + 24 + 42 isn't too bad either. Only thing is Carlisle has been rubbish for two years and guys with big attitude problems are a risk.

Jake has lost 200 points since you posted this inane garbage yesterday, meanwhile Henderson is worth 1200 points.

 

[bird_man]

Yes.

Get 2 teens picks, somehow.
Trade 1 to ess, get carlisle (no second coming back)

Done deal. We get a pick to his worth, you get a first.

We will be looking at getting a pick in the teens and keeping pick 5.

 

[Pinpoint Pass]

Houli / Hibberd
Lovett / Carlisle / Pick 5????
Crameri / Merrett
Ryder / Langford

Carlisle was part of the Williams trade. The good part

 

[pinot]

Jake has lost 200 points since you posted this inane garbage yesterday, meanwhile Henderson is worth 1200 points.

I hope you can learn to read one day.

Carlisle 1200-800 with WADA
Henderson 1200-1000 as he has had few good years not just one

They're both being offered between $600-700k and have 12 months apart so they're band one (pick1-10)

But they're both uncontracted but Henderson has been more consistent and more professional.