James Stewart I think we made a mistake not taking him as a father son

[mattys123]

We should make a fake play at both McCarthy and Stewart, force GWS to sign them up on big money, then swoop in with a big offer for Treloar or Hoskin-Elliott.

Now there's class.

 

[Hagla]

Its simple delist Tony Armstrong and Sinclair but Kelly and Stewart on the list.

Sinclair doesn't deserve to be delisted though.

 

[Knightmare]

Would you be able to to the top 10 of the 2013 draft again? Just curious to see who you would have now. I would personally still have Tom Boyd at 1, I think you've written him off there. I would also still have Kelly at 2. GWS selected the best two for mine.

Still so early and things will without question change significantly if you gave me so much as half of next season.

If you put me on the spot I'd go:
1. Bontempelli (improved a stack last year and will only continue to improve. has a rare game and can become this generations Kouta equivalent as a tall, strong, athletic but dexterous and dominant mid who can play just anywhere)
2. C.McCarthy (he looks ready to go this year and will only improve. he can become a T.Walker/J.Riewoldt quality forward and a possible top 5 and if not then highly probable top 10 quality key forward in the game. will only improve)
3. Boyd (he can still be a ripper but just will take longer perhaps not unlike Hawkins, though hopefully for him he comes on earlier quicker. he can be better than Hawkins as a taller guy but a guy who can actually mark as opposed to Hawkins who has always been about overpowering his opponent)
4. J.Kelly (still a bit outside for me but no other player has outside the first three on this list screamed star to me just yet. Kelly will be terrific as a productive, efficient and elite endurance running outside mid but does lack that contested side to his game which is why I hesitantly put him up here)
5. L.McDonald (may not stay this high if he always stays back like Trent McKenzie, as very well may happen, but just such an impactful player with that long, precise kick but then his pace and also some ball winning ability. He has a real confidence/arrogance to him that I like and while he may level out for a few years I can see some really special play six years from now just suddenly happening for him)
6. Aish (really immediate, complete player and only going to continue his improvement, probably has to play outside/back flank mostly given the loaded Brisbane midfield but none the less he'll be among their better players regardless of where he is used, such is his quality)
7. K.Kolodjashnij (highly productive. he's not winning it inside and will always be a wing/half back type but just a bit like Kelly extremely productive and efficient and has the smarts to find stacks of the ball easily)
8. L.Taylor (tiny so upside probably not as high as many of the others, but did what he did last year without a preseason so he'll be better again this year and into the future, no question)
9. Z.Merrett (really talented, just such a good user of the footy and can seemingly play anywhere. if he develops like he did in year one he can be a star)
10. Dunstan (mature bodied mid who impacted strongly from the get go, expect him to take another step forward this year and become one of St Kilda's key midfielders going forward)

 

[THATSGOLD]

Still so early and things will without question change significantly if you gave me so much as half of next season.

If you put me on the spot I'd go:
1. Bontempelli (improved a stack last year and will only continue to improve. has a rare game and can become this generations Kouta equivalent as a tall, strong, athletic but dexterous and dominant mid who can play just anywhere)
2. C.McCarthy (he looks ready to go this year and will only improve. he can become a T.Walker/J.Riewoldt quality forward and a possible top 5 and if not then highly probable top 10 quality key forward in the game. will only improve)
3. Boyd (he can still be a ripper but just will take longer perhaps not unlike Hawkins, though hopefully for him he comes on earlier quicker. he can be better than Hawkins as a taller guy but a guy who can actually mark as opposed to Hawkins who has always been about overpowering his opponent)
4. J.Kelly (still a bit outside for me but no other player has outside the first three on this list screamed star to me just yet. Kelly will be terrific as a productive, efficient and elite endurance running outside mid but does lack that contested side to his game which is why I hesitantly put him up here)
5. L.McDonald (may not stay this high if he always stays back like Trent McKenzie, as very well may happen, but just such an impactful player with that long, precise kick but then his pace and also some ball winning ability. He has a real confidence/arrogance to him that I like and while he may level out for a few years I can see some really special play six years from now just suddenly happening for him)
6. Aish (really immediate, complete player and only going to continue his improvement, probably has to play outside/back flank mostly given the loaded Brisbane midfield but none the less he'll be among their better players regardless of where he is used, such is his quality)
7. K.Kolodjashnij (highly productive. he's not winning it inside and will always be a wing/half back type but just a bit like Kelly extremely productive and efficient and has the smarts to find stacks of the ball easily)
8. L.Taylor (tiny so upside probably not as high as many of the others, but did what he did last year without a preseason so he'll be better again this year and into the future, no question)
9. Z.Merrett (really talented, just such a good user of the footy and can seemingly play anywhere. if he develops like he did in year one he can be a star)
10. Dunstan (mature bodied mid who impacted strongly from the get go, expect him to take another step forward this year and become one of St Kilda's key midfielders going forward)

Geez you really rate McCarthy ahead of Boyd? I just can't see Boyd failing. Agree with most accept Zac Merrett. I would now actually have Langdon in the top 10. The sad thing now is we had two picks in the top 10 and none are in there.

 

[loki04]

Still sounds like Goldsack after his 1st year.

Everything I've read and seen of Stewart indicates tall flanker, not KPP.

nah has a lot more kp prospect then goldy has shown.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Taking Freeman at 10 over Cam McCarthy might be a huge mistake.

 

[Knightmare]

Geez you really rate McCarthy ahead of Boyd? I just can't see Boyd failing. Agree with most accept Zac Merrett. I would now actually have Langdon in the top 10.

I genuinely do view McCarthy as better than Boyd.

His 3 goals in about 15 minutes in NAB 3 and 3 goals in NAB 2 for a second year key forward is absolutely unreal, particularly considering how raw he was when first recruited. I strongly feel he will be a monster and with the strength of his play, he'll probably play himself off the trade table and become completely out of reach for those clubs looking for that young key forward.

Boyd lots of people are dismissing having seen small bits of him in year 1 and leaving unimpressed, but as a genuine 2m key forward with his strong hands overhead he is a guy where he'll just need time before we see the absolute best of him. I'm not at all concerned about his future. We're just probably not seeing the best of him till probably season 5/6, due to the nature of his game as a power marking type.

On Langdon and I think a lot of Pies fans will agree with you on him being top 10. He is an overager, so a year older to start with. But the other thing with Langdon is while he has improved a lot these past seasons, even his last two in the TAC Cup. His ceiling I feel is lower than a lot of those guys picked high in the draft. Langdon for me feels like someone who will remain more your rebounding back flanker and perhaps he gets stints in the midfield a year or so from now. But just that star quality, I'm not quite seeing that. I thoroughly hope I'm wrong on that though.
Either way I'd definitely have Langdon top 20 if I'm doing that draft over as someone I see very much as a long term player.

 

[Knightmare]

Taking Freeman at 10 over Cam McCarthy might be a huge mistake.

The talk was we were high on McCarthy and really liked him, but just at 10 favoured whoever of Salem/Freeman fell.

I personally wanted Blake Acres at 10 with Aish at 6, both ahead of McCarthy who I just had no idea would come on this extremely strong.

So as with drafts every year, you win some, you lose some.

Fortunately for us we win more than most clubs on draft day, or over the past 10 years we have anyway.

*Curious note, in my 2013 phantom draft I had tipped James Aish and Cam McCarthy at 6 and 10 to be the two going to Collingwood - at the time being annoyed that we were expected to get Scharenberg and Freeman as Paige and a few others the day before to their credit had rumoured, I just of those who were linked to Collingwood preferred Aish and McCarthy. But sometimes things work out, sometimes things don't.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I genuinely do view McCarthy as better than Boyd.

His 3 goals in about 15 minutes in NAB 3 and 3 goals in NAB 2 for a second year key forward is absolutely unreal, particularly considering how raw he was when first recruited. I strongly feel he will be a monster and with the strength of his play, he'll probably play himself off the trade table and become completely out of reach for those clubs looking for that young key forward.

Boyd lots of people are dismissing having seen small bits of him in year 1 and leaving unimpressed, but as a genuine 2m key forward with his strong hands overhead he is a guy where he'll just need time before we see the absolute best of him. I'm not at all concerned about his future. We're just probably not seeing the best of him till probably season 5/6, due to the nature of his game as a power marking type.

On Langdon and I think a lot of Pies fans will agree with you on him being top 10. He is an overager, so a year older to start with. But the other thing with Langdon is while he has improved a lot these past seasons, even his last two in the TAC Cup. His ceiling I feel is lower than a lot of those guys picked high in the draft. Langdon for me feels like someone who will remain more your rebounding back flanker and perhaps he gets stints in the midfield a year or so from now. But just that star quality, I'm not quite seeing that. I thoroughly hope I'm wrong on that though.
Either way I'd definitely have Langdon top 20 if I'm doing that draft over as someone I see very much as a long term player.

Boyd will come good make no mistake about that I agree. He will eventually be one of the most spoken about big men in the game. McCarthy Im unsure on hes athletic but when it comes to the crunch athletic forwards are never as good as those really solid big guys.
Fair enough on Langdon being that year older might've helped him.
Where do you now see Freeman and Scharenberg? Would you take Freeman given what we have seen?

 

[THATSGOLD]

Sinclair doesn't deserve to be delisted though.

How long do you plan on keeping him?

 

[Hagla]

How long do you plan on keeping him?

I think he'll be a good player this year, and cement his spot in the best 22 early in the season. Read into that what you will, I'm not going to make any longer term predictions than that.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I think he'll be a good player this year, and cement his spot in the best 22 early in the season. Read into that what you will, I'm not going to make any longer term predictions than that.

I just dont see enough upside in Sinclair. His kicking will never be great. Hes a size that will have plenty of. Just vanilla that doesn't excite me moving forward.

 

[Knightmare]

Boyd will come good make no mistake about that I agree. He will eventually be one of the most spoken about big men in the game. McCarthy Im unsure on hes athletic but when it comes to the crunch athletic forwards are never as good as those really solid big guys.
Fair enough on Langdon being that year older might've helped him.
Where do you now see Freeman and Scharenberg? Would you take Freeman given what we have seen?

With McCarthy he has a thin upper body so I get where you are coming from. But his lower body is exceptionally strong so he doesn't get pushed around and a bit like Jeremy Cameron if you watch a lot of him, he is really hard at the ball and has some real aggression and like Jonathan Brown he really goes hard at the ball regardless of the consequences as one of the few genuinely fearless forwards - will just put his body on the line and just go for the mark when the chance is there. So while he has an athletic feel as he did when drafted, he really in a hurry has changed his game and developed a lot of tricks and ways to hit the scoreboard and influence the outcome on games.

He probably isn't someone who will tangle in 1v1 contests all that much, but he just seems this season anyway to be loosing his man and getting to all the right places. Best of all for him at GWS he isn't attracting that best key defender due to Jeremy Cameron being there, and he is really in a big way taking advantage of the situation to this point through the NAB Challenge anyway.

Freeman and Scharenberg would probably in hindsight if the 2013 draft was re-done today be 15-25 type selections. That can change though obviously as soon as they play, but just with neither having really been playing, it's hard to have them any higher than that.

Freeman can still be fine. He was never my pick at 10, but I don't think he'll be a miss for us either. I feel he'll be something like our Luke Shuey equivalent as someone who is fairly strong bodied, can really explode with ball in hand and use it well by foot, but without being that star player either. People coming into the draft and just looking at the footage were all screaming "he'll be another Patrick Dangerfield!" but the reality with Freeman is that the contested side of his game just isn't close and still something while reasonable, for more an inside player needs still to improve to hold up at AFL level.

 

[Hagla]

I genuinely do view McCarthy as better than Boyd.

His 3 goals in about 15 minutes in NAB 3 and 3 goals in NAB 2 for a second year key forward is absolutely unreal, particularly considering how raw he was when first recruited. I strongly feel he will be a monster and with the strength of his play, he'll probably play himself off the trade table and become completely out of reach for those clubs looking for that young key forward.

Boyd lots of people are dismissing having seen small bits of him in year 1 and leaving unimpressed, but as a genuine 2m key forward with his strong hands overhead he is a guy where he'll just need time before we see the absolute best of him. I'm not at all concerned about his future. We're just probably not seeing the best of him till probably season 5/6, due to the nature of his game as a power marking type.

On Langdon and I think a lot of Pies fans will agree with you on him being top 10. He is an overager, so a year older to start with. But the other thing with Langdon is while he has improved a lot these past seasons, even his last two in the TAC Cup. His ceiling I feel is lower than a lot of those guys picked high in the draft. Langdon for me feels like someone who will remain more your rebounding back flanker and perhaps he gets stints in the midfield a year or so from now. But just that star quality, I'm not quite seeing that. I thoroughly hope I'm wrong on that though.
Either way I'd definitely have Langdon top 20 if I'm doing that draft over as someone I see very much as a long term player.

I'm very surprised one or two NAB Challenge games have changed your opinion so greatly and quickly. Here is your list of your top 15 prospects from both 2013 and 2014 drafts combined. This is from late November last year so there's only been NAB Challenge games and pre season since then.

If I did say a top 15 now based on this year and last year I'd take today based on what I know..
1. Boyd
2. Bontempelli
3. Petracca
4. Brayshaw
5. Heeney
6. Moore
7. Hogan
8. McCartin
9. McDonald
10. Aish
11. Billings
12. Kolodjashnij
13. R.McKenzie
14. Acres
15. Blakely

So that may give you a better feel for where all these guys fit.

Just this year up the top end I wouldn't want to pick a genuine franchise player. It's more just a bunch of really high level guys.



No pressure with the phantom draft specifically.

I only rate myself based on the quality of my profiles and quality of my draft rankings. If both improve from year to year that's all I concern myself with. And if I outperform some clubs and outperform a few more clubs with each year then that is what I will personally draw satisfaction from.

The actual phantom draft itself is just for fan interest and not of high priority to me.

No mention of McCarthy so he's jumped quite a bit based on NAB Challenge form.

Still so early and things will without question change significantly if you gave me so much as half of next season.

If you put me on the spot I'd go:
1. Bontempelli (improved a stack last year and will only continue to improve. has a rare game and can become this generations Kouta equivalent as a tall, strong, athletic but dexterous and dominant mid who can play just anywhere)
2. C.McCarthy (he looks ready to go this year and will only improve. he can become a T.Walker/J.Riewoldt quality forward and a possible top 5 and if not then highly probable top 10 quality key forward in the game. will only improve)
3. Boyd (he can still be a ripper but just will take longer perhaps not unlike Hawkins, though hopefully for him he comes on earlier quicker. he can be better than Hawkins as a taller guy but a guy who can actually mark as opposed to Hawkins who has always been about overpowering his opponent)
4. J.Kelly (still a bit outside for me but no other player has outside the first three on this list screamed star to me just yet. Kelly will be terrific as a productive, efficient and elite endurance running outside mid but does lack that contested side to his game which is why I hesitantly put him up here)
5. L.McDonald (may not stay this high if he always stays back like Trent McKenzie, as very well may happen, but just such an impactful player with that long, precise kick but then his pace and also some ball winning ability. He has a real confidence/arrogance to him that I like and while he may level out for a few years I can see some really special play six years from now just suddenly happening for him)
6. Aish (really immediate, complete player and only going to continue his improvement, probably has to play outside/back flank mostly given the loaded Brisbane midfield but none the less he'll be among their better players regardless of where he is used, such is his quality)
7. K.Kolodjashnij (highly productive. he's not winning it inside and will always be a wing/half back type but just a bit like Kelly extremely productive and efficient and has the smarts to find stacks of the ball easily)
8. L.Taylor (tiny so upside probably not as high as many of the others, but did what he did last year without a preseason so he'll be better again this year and into the future, no question)
9. Z.Merrett (really talented, just such a good user of the footy and can seemingly play anywhere. if he develops like he did in year one he can be a star)
10. Dunstan (mature bodied mid who impacted strongly from the get go, expect him to take another step forward this year and become one of St Kilda's key midfielders going forward)

 

[Old Spice]

Breaking: TG thinks we might have made a grevious error, Knightmare changes his mind.

 

[Knightmare]

I'm very surprised one or two NAB Challenge games have changed your opinion so greatly and quickly. Here is your list of your top 15 prospects from both 2013 and 2014 drafts combined. This is from late November last year so there's only been NAB Challenge games and pre season since then.


No mention of McCarthy so he's jumped quite a bit based on NAB Challenge form.

McCarthy developed strongly last year but the development between last year and preseason is to me having seen his play the past two years obvious.

He has through both NAB 1+2 been GWS' most dominant player in the minutes he has been on the field. A lot of it is due to his performances in those two games because his impact for a second year key forward has been profound on another level. As much as it will be dismissed being only preseason.

It's just staggering to me he can perform like this while having been out for most of GWS' preseason.

For those reasons McCarthy is my number 2 guy today from 2013.

The ranking of second from 2013 is strictly today, and probably will be different by seasons end. But as more evidence is accumulated, that happens.

 

[Bard]

The problem with McCarthy is that he's actually the ugliest person ever born. Don't want that at Collingwood.

And yes, I'm an advocate for recruiting players based on their looks not skills because we see more of them than just on the football field. Flawless logic.

 

[Hagla]

McCarthy developed strongly last year but the development between last year and preseason is to me having seen his play the past two years obvious.

He has through both NAB 1+2 been GWS' most dominant player in the minutes he has been on the field. A lot of it is due to his performances in those two games because his impact for a second year key forward has been profound on another level. As much as it will be dismissed being only preseason.

It's just staggering to me he can perform like this while having been out for most of GWS' preseason.

For those reasons McCarthy is my number 2 guy today from 2013.

The ranking of second from 2013 is strictly today, and probably will be different by seasons end. But as more evidence is accumulated, that happens.

I didn't get a chance to watch the GWS games but looking at the team lists he couldn't have had any great defenders to match up against. I'll reserve judgement until he plays against some Afl standard defenders.

 

[popin]

Breaking: TG thinks we might have made a grevious error, Knightmare changes his mind.

I might book them a room at the crown

 

[popin]

The problem with McCarthy is that he's actually the ugliest person ever born. Don't want that at Collingwood.

And yes, I'm an advocate for recruiting players based on their looks not skills because we see more of them than just on the football field. Flawless logic.

We have The Road Runner (marsh) who will shut down McCarthy with speed beep beep

 

[RGpies]

With McCarthy he has a thin upper body so I get where you are coming from. But his lower body is exceptionally strong so he doesn't get pushed around and a bit like Jeremy Cameron if you watch a lot of him, he is really hard at the ball and has some real aggression and like Jonathan Brown he really goes hard at the ball regardless of the consequences as one of the few genuinely fearless forwards - will just put his body on the line and just go for the mark when the chance is there. So while he has an athletic feel as he did when drafted, he really in a hurry has changed his game and developed a lot of tricks and ways to hit the scoreboard and influence the outcome on games.

He probably isn't someone who will tangle in 1v1 contests all that much, but he just seems this season anyway to be loosing his man and getting to all the right places. Best of all for him at GWS he isn't attracting that best key defender due to Jeremy Cameron being there, and he is really in a big way taking advantage of the situation to this point through the NAB Challenge anyway.

Freeman and Scharenberg would probably in hindsight if the 2013 draft was re-done today be 15-25 type selections. That can change though obviously as soon as they play, but just with neither having really been playing, it's hard to have them any higher than that.

Freeman can still be fine. He was never my pick at 10, but I don't think he'll be a miss for us either. I feel he'll be something like our Luke Shuey equivalent as someone who is fairly strong bodied, can really explode with ball in hand and use it well by foot, but without being that star player either. People coming into the draft and just looking at the footage were all screaming "he'll be another Patrick Dangerfield!" but the reality with Freeman is that the contested side of his game just isn't close and still something while reasonable, for more an inside player needs still to improve to hold up at AFL level.

do you think we picked sharenberg as a list fit over aish? Im quite looking forward to seeing langdon, seedsman and sharenberg in the backline in 5 years time. We do have heaps of young midfeilders. Im also interested to see what dereks plan is with our first round pick this year (its obviously only early) but we clearly have heaps of first round drafts picks and young talent on our list now and my guess is we will end up with pick 5-10 this year, and unless derek really wants someone with that pick i see no reason why we wont trade for a player that will improve our list immediatly. I think as keefe is going to play forward this year he will have an average year and not be best 22, but other clubs may rate him as a backman so say pick 5-10 and a keefe may get us a Mcarthy, treloar, coniglio etc. Thoughts?

 

[Bay Pie]

Breaking: TG thinks we might have made a grevious error, Knightmare changes his mind.

Lol. I have TG on ignore but I guess he's just supporting a view, negative to Collingwood and now been exposed.

Haha. That's never happened before.

and this is by no means a crack at KM, he puts his cags on the line all the time and we all get forgetful.

 

[ppoiter]

I genuinely do view McCarthy as better than Boyd.

His 3 goals in about 15 minutes in NAB 3 and 3 goals in NAB 2 for a second year key forward is absolutely unreal, particularly considering how raw he was when first recruited. I strongly feel he will be a monster and with the strength of his play, he'll probably play himself off the trade table and become completely out of reach for those clubs looking for that young key forward.

Boyd lots of people are dismissing having seen small bits of him in year 1 and leaving unimpressed, but as a genuine 2m key forward with his strong hands overhead he is a guy where he'll just need time before we see the absolute best of him. I'm not at all concerned about his future. We're just probably not seeing the best of him till probably season 5/6, due to the nature of his game as a power marking type.

On Langdon and I think a lot of Pies fans will agree with you on him being top 10. He is an overager, so a year older to start with. But the other thing with Langdon is while he has improved a lot these past seasons, even his last two in the TAC Cup. His ceiling I feel is lower than a lot of those guys picked high in the draft. Langdon for me feels like someone who will remain more your rebounding back flanker and perhaps he gets stints in the midfield a year or so from now. But just that star quality, I'm not quite seeing that. I thoroughly hope I'm wrong on that though.
Either way I'd definitely have Langdon top 20 if I'm doing that draft over as someone I see very much as a long term player.

I think thats fine for Langdon. He doesnt need to be a star as long as he continues to improve in the specific role he plays. He has the look of a guy who will be a solid top 10-15 player for most of his career. It wouldnt feel like a loss to me if he never plays another midfield minute in his life

 

[35Daicos]

I think thats fine for Langdon. He doesnt need to be a star as long as he continues to improve in the specific role he plays. He has the look of a guy who will be a solid top 10-15 player for most of his career. It wouldnt feel like a loss to me if he never plays another midfield minute in his life

This sums up my thinking perfectly. Too many these days are obsessed with the idea of players becoming midfielders. The midfield is obviously a massively important part of a team, and you need plenty of blokes who can play there, but what's wrong with the idea of a player being just a very good back flank or back pocket for an entire career.

I doubt Guy McKenna spent many minutes away from playing in his normal position, and was almost flawless at what he did, yet if he was playing now some would think he had to be converted to a midfielder to be more valuable.

 

[jackcass]

Geez you really rate McCarthy ahead of Boyd? I just can't see Boyd failing. Agree with most accept Zac Merrett. I would now actually have Langdon in the top 10. The sad thing now is we had two picks in the top 10 and none are in there.

How about we let Freeman and Scharenberg play a bit before we start lamenting our picks. Come back in 3-4 years and assess.