Joel Selwood: Really that great?

[The 747]

imo the only reason people might have Watson below guys like Selwood, Pendlebury, Mitchell is because he hasn't played in a team that has had finals and Premiership success. Individually, Watson has achieved just as much (if not more) than those guys - Brownlow, multiple AAs and B&Fs, AFLPA Captain award et cetera. I firmly believe that if Watson had won 3 Premierships with Geelong, he'd be the unrivaled second best player in the comp.

Selwood, Pendlebury and Mitchell are massive contributors to their teams being in finals and having premiership success.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

lol... Pendlebury has a norm smith, 4 All Australians (Watson only has 2), 2 Anzac medals, 2 copeland trophy's and has done this in team where there is actually some competition for awards - i.e. it's a lot harder to win stuff when your competing against Swan than it is versus Stanton. Also did a mention that he is four years younger than Jobe? The claim that Watson has achieved as much as players like Pendlebury and Mitchell is absurd. If anything the fact he's been playing in a garbage team for most of his career should make it easier.

In 2012 when Watson won the Brownlow, Stanton had 14 Brownlow votes - the same amount as Selwood and only 1 less than Pendlebury.

But keep telling yourself that Watson has no competition - I'm sure it fits your false, made-up narrative.

 

[dthom]

I've been trying to pin down exactly why some supporters of opposition clubs rate certain players and others don't. The best I could come up with is that some players excel against certain teams and are below their best against other teams. For example:

Joel Selwood vs Adelaide (over 10 games) averages 28.8 disposals, 1.2 goals, 5 tackles and 6.8 clearances.

Whereas, Joel Selwood vs West Coast (over 8 games) averages 23.63 disposals, .75 goals, 4.75 tackles and 3.5 clearances.

Whilst that isn't an enormous drop off in terms of raw numbers, it is perhaps the difference between an opposition supporter thinking he is merely better than average rather than one of the modern greats. His record against Fremantle and St Kilda is arguably even "worse".

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Selwood, Pendlebury and Mitchell are massive contributors to their teams being in finals and having premiership success.

Of course they are, but players like SJ, Ablett, Swan, Beams, Hodge and Franklin have made their jobs a whole lot easier. Watson hasn't had that kind of support until (arguably) this season.

 

[jakson68]

For a start, I know I'm 'wrong' with this one, but I am seriously just not getting it.

Every time I watch Joel Selwood play, whilst I acknowledge he's a great midfielder, I just don't get the sense that I'm watching one of the top handful of players in the league.

And yet he is consistently rated by every reputable source as one of the best in the game.

The Brownlow, MVP, AFL ratings, Players vote.... all support the idea that this guy is amongst the best going around.

I don't rate him anywhere near as high as I would Ablett (in a whole other place), Watson, Pendlebury etc.

I'm actually stunned that he's consistently rated above Sam Mitchell, the most criminally underrated midfielder of the last twenty years.

So help me to understand, what am I missing here?

There are outside mids and inside mids, then there are machines. Selwood is a machine, tough as nails, great leader, goes and gets the hardball himself and always willing to get is head knocked off for his team, that's what makes him a champion.
You know the guy who has 3 bounces and kicks the goal, well Selwood is the player who got his head split open and still got the ball out to him, while he was striding past. Yes he gets free kicks for ducking his head down but he is a gutsy brave player. Not John Brown crazy/stupid brave but still brave enough to inspire his team.

 

[forwardflanker]

In 2012 when Watson won the Brownlow, Stanton had 14 Brownlow votes - the same amount as Selwood and only 1 less than Pendlebury.

But keep telling yourself that Watson has no competition - I'm sure it fits your false, made-up narrative.

What the fact Pendlebury is 4 years younger yet has won significantly more than Watson is a false made up narrative? Lol.

Also, even bigger lol at comparing Stanton to players like Swan and Beams.

 

[MinerBoy]

The thing for Selwood for me is he does everything right, he moves to the right spots, he kicks the ball to the right places and he has a huge will to win.

the thing for me though, is he doesn't do "freakish" things where you look at him and go "wow... that is something only a genetic freak could do" (ie: Ablett)

Really good assessment IMO.

 

[MinerBoy]

lol... Pendlebury has a norm smith, 4 All Australians (Watson only has 2), 2 Anzac medals, 2 copeland trophy's and has done this in team where there is actually some competition for awards - i.e. it's a lot harder to win stuff when your competing against Swan than it is versus Stanton. Also did a mention that he is four years younger than Jobe? The claim that Watson has achieved as much as players like Pendlebury and Mitchell is absurd. If anything the fact he's been playing in a garbage team for most of his career should make it easier.

Not entering the who's better debate....but ANZAC medals mean SFA. There are 9 BOGs in H&A every week.

 

[JUBJUB]

Selwood a great player? Sure. But he shits me no end with his free kicks around the neck, constant sooks to the umpires when things don't go his way and his kicking/scragging of players when they're already of the ground - not something a "tough" player should be doing.

Yeah that brutal attack on Adam Selwood at Suvlaco Oval a year or two ago was scandalous

 

[strobe00]

One thing that surprised me is how infrequently he wastes the ball. His disposal efficiency is pretty impressive (77-78%) considering the proportion he wins contested, and his kick:handball ratio.

I knew he did all the tough stuff, but am surprised that he manages to remain so accurate with the ball despite it. Maybe he goes shorter with his kicks than some of the other inside mids. Will pay closer attention in future.

He is a champ.

 

[JUBJUB]

lol... Pendlebury has a norm smith, 4 All Australians (Watson only has 2), 2 Anzac medals, 2 copeland trophy's and has done this in team where there is actually some competition for awards - i.e. it's a lot harder to win stuff when your competing against Swan than it is versus Stanton. Also did a mention that he is four years younger than Jobe? The claim that Watson has achieved as much as players like Pendlebury and Mitchell is absurd. If anything the fact he's been playing in a garbage team for most of his career should make it easier.

You know posters are struggling in a pissing contest when Essendon or Collingwood fans mention Anzac Day medals
Who gives a fat rats about that medal ? It's just a normal B.O.G for any H&A game of the year

 

[Bomberblitzer]

What the fact Pendlebury is 4 years younger yet has won significantly more than Watson is a false made up narrative? Lol.

Also, even bigger lol at comparing Stanton to players like Swan and Beams.

Where did I compare Stanton to Swan and Beams? I was just stating the fact that Stanton managed similar votes to both Pendlebury and Selwood.

 

[PieNSauce]

Really can't understand anyone questioning Selwood's value. The guy is a gun and those complaining about "ducking" have no idea. I hate it as much as anyone but the simple fact is that it's proven to be a very effective way to evade a tackle. As others have already said, the number of times he actually gets caught high pales into insignificance against the times he actually evades the tackle and that has to tell you it's effective. I'd be hard pressed to put him anywhere but in the competition's top 3 or 4.

 

[the distributer]

Of course they are, but players like SJ, Ablett, Swan, Beams, Hodge and Franklin have made their jobs a whole lot easier. Watson hasn't had that kind of support until (arguably) this season.

Watson at his peak can be compared to the Selwoods-Pendleburys, but those boys were pretty much guns from the get go, Watson was fairly average during his first 4-5 seasons, When their careers finish Watson will be well down the pecking order compared to those 2 boys.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Ablett left at the conclusion of the 2010 season. Lingy retired in 2011. Steve Johnson became a midfielder in 2012, Stokes did the same thing while Bartel moved out of the midfield on a permanent basis in 2011. Corey and Kelly have been the main two during this re-building phase at Geelong. In 2012, teams focused on Selwood as he was arguably the best midfielder and it wasn't until players like Christensen, Duncan, Motlop began developing did the focus slowly shift onto other blokes due to the workload being shared around (SJ & Stokes also elevated their game into the elite class).
Horlin-Smith, Caddy and Guthrie have now given Geelong the depth they will need to combat the other teams striving for silverware this year.

Watson has been playing alongside Stanton, McVeigh, Hocking, Zaharakis, Prismall for years while Johnson, Peverill and Hird were also by his side for a period of 4-5 seasons too. Suggesting Watson never had the support is not exactly correct.

lol @ comparing Prismall, McVeigh and Peverill to Corey, Kelly and Bartel.

 

[the distributer]

Really can't understand anyone questioning Selwood's value. The guy is a gun and those complaining about "ducking" have no idea. I hate it as much as anyone but the simple fact is that it's proven to be a very effective way to evade a tackle. As others have already said, the number of times he actually gets caught high pales into insignificance against the times he actually evades the tackle and that has to tell you it's effective. I'd be hard pressed to put him anywhere but in the competition's top 3 or 4.

I think Selwoods ahead of Pendlebury now, it's pretty close though.

 

[PieNSauce]

You know posters are struggling in a pissing contest when Essendon or Collingwood fans mention Anzac Day medals
Who gives a fat rats about that medal ? It's just a normal B.O.G for any H&A game of the year

Wrong... You know the person they're discussing it with is an Essendon supporter!

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Watson at his peak can be compared to the Selwoods-Pendleburys, but those boys were pretty much guns from the get go, Watson was fairly average during his first 4-5 seasons, When their careers finish Watson will be well down the pecking order compared to those 2 boys.

You're probably right. But that doesn't take away from the fact that, at least for the moment, they're on roughly the same level.

 

[PieNSauce]

I think Selwoods ahead of Pendlebury now, it's pretty close though.

If you're talking about present form I might be inclined to agree but over their careers I'd have Pendles ahead.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Wrong... You know the person they're discussing it with is an Essendon supporter!

I could've mentioned Jobe's Yiooken Award but I didn't because I realize that it really doesn't mean anything. It was a Collingwood supporter that brought up ANZAC Medals.

 

[PieNSauce]

I could've mentioned Jobe's Yiooken Award but I didn't because I realize that it really doesn't mean anything. It was a Collingwood supporter that brought up ANZAC Medals.

Anzac medals are won in games between Collingwood and Essendon if I remember rightly!

 

[forwardflanker]

You know posters are struggling in a pissing contest when Essendon or Collingwood fans mention Anzac Day medals
Who gives a fat rats about that medal ? It's just a normal B.O.G for any H&A game of the year

Thought it was a reasonable comparison considering Anzac day is undeniably the biggest h&a game of the year and both of them play in it

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Anzac medals are won in games between Collingwood and Essendon if I remember rightly!

And? Zaharakis has an ANZAC Medal - doesn't mean he's a better player than Jobe Watson who doesn't have one.

 

[PieNSauce]

And? Zaharakis has an ANZAC Medal - doesn't mean he's a better player than Jobe Watson who doesn't have one.

Not unless he has all of the other accolades mentiond... Does he?

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

GAblett
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Pendles and Watson
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Selwood and Danger
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Mitchell, Griffen, Cotchin, Swan...
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Fyfe, Mundy, Beams, Ziebull, Sloane...