Opinion Our coaches, leadership, game style, and everything else
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- Jan 11, 2003
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Basically what bedford said, we all go in to the contest
The King!
Chosen One
bungwahl
Premiership Player
It's hard to blame to players when they're trying to pin point passes in amongst 30 odd bodies.
The good news is we know the old game plan is dead and now we've got nothing to lose. We must leave guys up front to give ourselves options and play attacking football. If we win, great - we might have a late run in the finals. If we continue to lose, we drop down the ladder and get better value draft picks. The pressure is off for Horse now - let's get attacking!
The good news is we know the old game plan is dead and now we've got nothing to lose. We must leave guys up front to give ourselves options and play attacking football. If we win, great - we might have a late run in the finals. If we continue to lose, we drop down the ladder and get better value draft picks. The pressure is off for Horse now - let's get attacking!
sataris
Chief Toastie Officer
- Feb 15, 2015
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The King!
Chosen One
i know they got humiliated when it counted last year but this was not how we played in 2014 as a rule
we seemed reasonably attacking is my recollection
I dont understand the changes to the style this year, what did they take from the grand final?
or are we just playing god awful footy? is it as simple as everyone is just out of form
we seemed reasonably attacking is my recollection
I dont understand the changes to the style this year, what did they take from the grand final?
or are we just playing god awful footy? is it as simple as everyone is just out of form
MarkP
That guy
For most of the year? In reality we have been getting some results over ordinary sides that look pretty average when they play the good teams.
We just cannot score points with the way he is playing them. Everyone can see it. I don't know why he can't. Even if we kicked everything yesterday it was still 28 scoring shots to 16 (can't be bothered working out the rushed stuff)
They kicked 15 goals. We had 16 scores total.
We could have been as accurate as hell and still lost easily. Thank god they were wasteful as well. 13 behinds. I think the score board flattered us a bit and that is after we all saw them put in a hell of an effort.
Effort to reward is so far out of whack it can't be long before the players say stuff it surely.
The King!
Chosen One
West Coast were a bit immature and let us back in it a bit too, score flattered sydney, they forced us wide for the limited chances we got
But we didnt play this way last year , maybe in patches, but i remember us looking awesome most weeks or maybe i glorify it
It seems a deliberate style though, like Horse loved what Freo were doing or something
It is a style that screams the coaches dont rate their own list so try to restrict the game
It's amazing how skills can drop off soooo quickly. Yes the game plan has flaws, but pretty sure kicking the ball directly to opposition players isn't part of it.
Seems to be a team wide malaise, Joey, Parks and Hanners were always terrible, but Mcveigh and Lloyd have been infected too. Jets is prone to the occasional shocker as well.
Chicken or the egg? Game plan causes too much pressure and lack of skills, or the game plan fails cuz we can't implement it?
At the end of the day, the buck stops with the coach. Something needs to change. No idea what though.
Seems to be a team wide malaise, Joey, Parks and Hanners were always terrible, but Mcveigh and Lloyd have been infected too. Jets is prone to the occasional shocker as well.
Chicken or the egg? Game plan causes too much pressure and lack of skills, or the game plan fails cuz we can't implement it?
At the end of the day, the buck stops with the coach. Something needs to change. No idea what though.
bungwahl
Premiership Player
That's a fair point, and I think the game plan causes excessive congestion which makes it harder to find space to hit targets. When you have space there is a greater margin for error. The way we flood all players in to the same area means we're trying to hit bullseyes every time.
The congestion no longer seems to hinder our opponents, whilst it's definitely hurting our options in attack. Time for a change!
replicant
Premiership Player
Keep Horse. I don't think the overall gameplan is bad, it's just not being executed. Head coach isn't really in charge of that, it's more the line coaches that should be getting that to work.
Send Dew to Carlton. Recruit a decent midfield coach. With our mids, we should be doing much better. Maybe Francou can do it, but if he's still too green, get in someone who can.
Move Playfair on, get a coach who can get our forward line to work. I don't see any strategy in how our forwards play and we desperately need one, because we should be kicking 100 every week. We have the worst forward structure in the league.
Go and get Akermanis. I don't care if people think he's a flog, he was an amazing player and i think would be a good coach. Even if he's not in charge of any line, get him in as an assistant to help teach skills.
Send Dew to Carlton. Recruit a decent midfield coach. With our mids, we should be doing much better. Maybe Francou can do it, but if he's still too green, get in someone who can.
Move Playfair on, get a coach who can get our forward line to work. I don't see any strategy in how our forwards play and we desperately need one, because we should be kicking 100 every week. We have the worst forward structure in the league.
Go and get Akermanis. I don't care if people think he's a flog, he was an amazing player and i think would be a good coach. Even if he's not in charge of any line, get him in as an assistant to help teach skills.
we saw what happened when we started running from the backline more on Sunday. We missed malceskis run, Shaw did his best but he needed help. Rampe had his hands full and Laidler can't run anyway. Rohan would've helped too. Perhaps leaving XR in with Teddy, Teddy can go 3rd tall freeing up Rampe to run more. We are taking too long to get it out givimg teams ages to set up and we have to bomb it long to the boundary because our skills are not good enough to chip around. We need speed. Get Hiscox in maybe, whoever has some toe. Jones is ok but kills himself in the contest and doesn't yet have the mindset like Shaw to take it on. That's what we need to do..take it on and run because we cannot emulate Hawthorns style possesion game. Get it out quick before they can lock it in, giving our mids time to prepare to lock it in our 50. This bullshit of our forwards standing on their 50 metre line has to stop too. Phew..
eactly my point, no forwards where they should be. They all push back too far.
The only way is up!
srs a few weeks back I said we were caught out on fast rebounds too often which exposed us 1 on 1, highlighting this weakness.
Let's say most did not agree and pointed to the "lowest scores against" to highlight my folly.
Anyone care to reconsider based on the past month?
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I think the problem started with the failure to replace Mal and the decision to play four talls in the forward line last year.
The strategy at that time was to push Rohan into the backline as a spare. I wonder whether, in addition to Patfull there was an effort to locate a running hbf ? But the defeat by the hawks exposed how slow we were forward of the ball so rohan has been pushed forward (possibly also in conjunction with the injuries to heeney and to mcglynn). The efforts to convert jetta to a running hbf haven't really come off and to be honest he'd be my best midfielder this season behind hanners. I think JPK has been good but not as good as in previous seasons
So we have been tinkering all season with how to get more run from the backline, as well as more speed and pressure in the forward line.
Anyway we still haven't settled on how to achieve these things, and if anything we have gone more into our shells.
I said yesterday that the only way for us to win was to restrict the eagles by getting them to kick less than 10 goals. Once that went out the window by the 6 in the first quarter we should simply have attacked and made it a shootout. we should have tested some strategies for how to both get more speed of hb and how a forward line could be structured given that the game was gone by quarter time
I have many gripes with the list management and drafting over the years but i think the last two off seasons have been terrible. Could have really set us up, but some decisions have really eroded the depth.
And yeah of course getting bud was the right thing despite his salary/contract length. (Imagine bud at gws right now.. Theyd be top four..)
Tippett was free in the end too so of course take him, lower his next contract
Apparently they knew 12 months out we were getting bud but still made the wrong calls
Our list this year (trade ban didnt help but the issues were already there) is 2 senior list players shorter than most teams, alex johnson long term out, and with about 10 draftees from the last 3 years.
Yes some cant be helped, gws offering lamb a million, membrey perhaps a bit homesick.. But we have had glaring future holes at fb/chb and now also chf, maybe Nank is the ff/ruck but early days.. We had dan currie for 5 years playing ressies, and in the old canberra league when they were unbeaten for like 3 years or so?
Yet trade for paul chambers who was never a good player, playfair haha, spider everitt
Paul roos said he didnt rate the draft. Too speculative. Then he drafted project players, gave them a few years, wouldnt play them in the firsts because *premiership points* Simpkin, rowe, currie, even terlich all made it back to the afl,
Ive meandered from what i planned to say but a lot of what ive been thinking ive seen reflected on here. We can turn things around. The coaching is making them play like theyre handcuffed, there are some bloody good players representing us, let them play more naturally, back them in and the confidence will flow.
Also.. Just quickly back to our key tall woes, i think of matt spangher. It was a great draft choice, ready to go (did have injury problems tho) could play both ends, so horse clearly saw a need for kp depth, trades spangher to our ..rival.. And then despite ted and reg being two years older, didnt target any insurance, or really draft any talls bar johnson til xav and alliir two years ago. Let the rucks get so bad we had to get dericx..
Such bad list management that we had a guy who got drafted as a mid, has great skills, takes the game on, should be taking over from Eski but he has to play fb.
And then mitchell as sub instead of brandon or cunningham.. Pretty much gave up on the game when i saw the late change.. Just so predictable. Ok that was cathartic. . Go bloods.
And yeah of course getting bud was the right thing despite his salary/contract length. (Imagine bud at gws right now.. Theyd be top four..)
Tippett was free in the end too so of course take him, lower his next contract
Apparently they knew 12 months out we were getting bud but still made the wrong calls
Our list this year (trade ban didnt help but the issues were already there) is 2 senior list players shorter than most teams, alex johnson long term out, and with about 10 draftees from the last 3 years.
Yes some cant be helped, gws offering lamb a million, membrey perhaps a bit homesick.. But we have had glaring future holes at fb/chb and now also chf, maybe Nank is the ff/ruck but early days.. We had dan currie for 5 years playing ressies, and in the old canberra league when they were unbeaten for like 3 years or so?
Yet trade for paul chambers who was never a good player, playfair haha, spider everitt
Paul roos said he didnt rate the draft. Too speculative. Then he drafted project players, gave them a few years, wouldnt play them in the firsts because *premiership points* Simpkin, rowe, currie, even terlich all made it back to the afl,
Ive meandered from what i planned to say but a lot of what ive been thinking ive seen reflected on here. We can turn things around. The coaching is making them play like theyre handcuffed, there are some bloody good players representing us, let them play more naturally, back them in and the confidence will flow.
Also.. Just quickly back to our key tall woes, i think of matt spangher. It was a great draft choice, ready to go (did have injury problems tho) could play both ends, so horse clearly saw a need for kp depth, trades spangher to our ..rival.. And then despite ted and reg being two years older, didnt target any insurance, or really draft any talls bar johnson til xav and alliir two years ago. Let the rucks get so bad we had to get dericx..
Such bad list management that we had a guy who got drafted as a mid, has great skills, takes the game on, should be taking over from Eski but he has to play fb.
And then mitchell as sub instead of brandon or cunningham.. Pretty much gave up on the game when i saw the late change.. Just so predictable. Ok that was cathartic. . Go bloods.
I think they should just develop the younger players and see who can play and who can't. We were clamouring for this in 2013 because by about this stage we could see that we weren't in the running. Same s**t 2 seasons later. It's concerning, but it's not unexpected when we're rarely bringing youngsters through.
Kennedy Parker
🎨𝖆𝖗𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙🎨
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- #545
#standbyhorse ? 
#newgameplanhorse
- Jun 16, 2012
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Id love for horse to go out and say boys this week, we just play footy. We have so many guys like buddy,jetta,parker,heeney ,rampe that play with flare and they are restricted in hy horses defensive game style. We got buddy for his goal kicking genius, yet we are turning him into a different player.
Let the boys off the leash and see what they are capable of
Let the boys off the leash and see what they are capable of
Do the players understand what they're supposed to be doing? So many times when they did (few and far between) get a wave of run going forward they had no-one to kick to and stopped. Then other times when we had the option to go and the players forward of the ball they refused to pull the trigger and went sideways/backwards and anywhere but forward. The fact that virtually all our players look sideways and backwards before they even look forward is a reflection on what they're being taught to do....and watching the neafl stream it was the exact same thing. No flair whatsoever, just safe possession football ( a game plan we can't play with our skill level).
There is absolutely no synergy between defence and midfield and even less synergy between the mids and the forwards, no one seems to be on the same page or understand what they're exactly supposed to be doing in specific situations.
And what the hell is our tactic at kick ins exactly? Every single time long to the boundary, you'd think every single one of our players would know by now that's where the ball is going....so why are we always outnumbered at that contest? FFS just take a risk and go down the middle occasionally, especially when you 40 points down and need to find a way back into the game. Even Ross Lyon has his mob playing with more flair than us.
Many thought the GF last year highlighted our need to improve our stoppage work, so we don't have to launch every attack from the backline! Yet Horse's take seems to be we need to possess the ball in the back half and suck up all they're players and try and get them out the back. Problem is no ones falling for it making sure someone always stays right back, and unlike 2012 we don't have the quickest man (or even 2nd or 3rd quickest) in our side as out furthest back player..we have a 35yr old who's quite likely playing his last handful of games.
There is absolutely no synergy between defence and midfield and even less synergy between the mids and the forwards, no one seems to be on the same page or understand what they're exactly supposed to be doing in specific situations.
And what the hell is our tactic at kick ins exactly? Every single time long to the boundary, you'd think every single one of our players would know by now that's where the ball is going....so why are we always outnumbered at that contest? FFS just take a risk and go down the middle occasionally, especially when you 40 points down and need to find a way back into the game. Even Ross Lyon has his mob playing with more flair than us.
Many thought the GF last year highlighted our need to improve our stoppage work, so we don't have to launch every attack from the backline! Yet Horse's take seems to be we need to possess the ball in the back half and suck up all they're players and try and get them out the back. Problem is no ones falling for it making sure someone always stays right back, and unlike 2012 we don't have the quickest man (or even 2nd or 3rd quickest) in our side as out furthest back player..we have a 35yr old who's quite likely playing his last handful of games.
Lakeside Swan
Premiership Player
- Banned
- #549
I like that idea. We can still win the premiership but we won't do it with the current game plan.
Just slightly unrealistic (and apologies if it's been suggested) but let's just rebuild the coaching staff from the ground up using former true bloods:
- Horse can stay as a mentor Roos-style to Brett Kirk, who will slide into the senior job in 2017.
- Playfair out, Micky O in as forwards coach.
- Was going to say Nick Davis as goal kicking coach but remembered he struggled with the bloods culture (beautiful kick at goal though).
- Dew out, Stewie Max in as midfield coach.
- Paul Williams on board as strategy coach.
- Whoever is currently defensive coach (Blakey maybe?) out (though he's been ok), Craig Bolton in.
- Darren Jolly in as ruck coach.
- Bustling Baz in to mentor Tippo in how to use your body effectively.
- Paul Bevan in to coach the bench in how to slice the oranges.
- We'll find a job for a few of the other good ones.
- The old dude who sings the song with the players can stay, he's been solid all year.
- Horse can stay as a mentor Roos-style to Brett Kirk, who will slide into the senior job in 2017.
- Playfair out, Micky O in as forwards coach.
- Was going to say Nick Davis as goal kicking coach but remembered he struggled with the bloods culture (beautiful kick at goal though).
- Dew out, Stewie Max in as midfield coach.
- Paul Williams on board as strategy coach.
- Whoever is currently defensive coach (Blakey maybe?) out (though he's been ok), Craig Bolton in.
- Darren Jolly in as ruck coach.
- Bustling Baz in to mentor Tippo in how to use your body effectively.
- Paul Bevan in to coach the bench in how to slice the oranges.
- We'll find a job for a few of the other good ones.
- The old dude who sings the song with the players can stay, he's been solid all year.
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