Opinion Our coaches, leadership, game style, and everything else

[Wolftone]

A few dry games will make this clear. Sydney have played in the worst conditions of any club this season. (2 torrential downpours, 1 dewy cow paddock. You cant find form in the wet)

It is footy. It is played outdoors in winter, in the dry or wet. Every team has to play in all kinds of conditions, including the lights going out. Stop making excuses for really bad coaching and play.

 

[baja]

Some pretty poor comments in this thread he won us a flag and was deeply involved in a second hes got my respect but it is fair to question some things but please show some respect ya spoilt flogs, weve had some pretty s**t coaches over the years Horse isn't one of them.

I gotta wonder why Franklin kept going way too far up the ground I doubt it was an instruction, he got a bake at half time and stayed a little deeper on Thompson and we started to look good, is/was Horse trying to implement the 'Pagans Paddock'? It looks like it at times and might have worked if Thompson didn't just let Buddy go and stayed back plugging the hole, well played I must say.

I think we needed to leave someone deep in the goal square, I thought ROK who it would have suited perfectly, or the resting ruck however all the players got caught following the ball, was it them not following Horses instructions? Did he give any instructions? I saw Nick Davis shouting and pointing at our goals a lot no one seemed to listen, not that I know what he was yelling.
Seasons not over yet would be better for all of us especially the club if we all got behind Horse instead of turning on him it never ends well.

 

[Wolftone]

Horse seems to be placing a huge emphasis on using the ball well when rebounding from defense by stacking all the best users of the ball around the back half. If only the ball was used that well for our forward entries.

If he was doing that he's pick Biggs.

 

[melbournehammer]

If his instructions are not being followed drop the player(s).

 

[bedford]

Some pretty poor comments in this thread he won us a flag and was deeply involved in a second hes got my respect but it is fair to question some things but please show some respect ya spoilt flogs, weve had some pretty s**t coaches over the years Horse isn't one of them.

I gotta wonder why Franklin kept going way too far up the ground I doubt it was an instruction, he got a bake at half time and stayed a little deeper on Thompson and we started to look good, is/was Horse trying to implement the 'Pagans Paddock'? It looks like it at times and might have worked if Thompson didn't just let Buddy go and stayed back plugging the hole, well played I must say.

I think we needed to leave someone deep in the goal square, I thought ROK who it would have suited perfectly, or the resting ruck however all the players got caught following the ball, was it them not following Horses instructions? Did he give any instructions? I saw Nick Davis shouting and pointing at our goals a lot no one seemed to listen, not that I know what he was yelling.
Seasons not over yet would be better for all of us especially the club if we all got behind Horse instead of turning on him it never ends well.

You are kidding, did you see Buddy get a bake at half time ? The problem is that he is stubborn and won't change a game plan that every other coach has worked out, leave a plus one and you F the Swans game plan

 

[melbournehammer]

Some pretty poor comments in this thread he won us a flag and was deeply involved in a second hes got my respect but it is fair to question some things but please show some respect ya spoilt flogs, weve had some pretty s**t coaches over the years Horse isn't one of them.

I gotta wonder why Franklin kept going way too far up the ground I doubt it was an instruction, he got a bake at half time and stayed a little deeper on Thompson and we started to look good, is/was Horse trying to implement the 'Pagans Paddock'? It looks like it at times and might have worked if Thompson didn't just let Buddy go and stayed back plugging the hole, well played I must say.

I think we needed to leave someone deep in the goal square, I thought ROK who it would have suited perfectly, or the resting ruck however all the players got caught following the ball, was it them not following Horses instructions? Did he give any instructions? I saw Nick Davis shouting and pointing at our goals a lot no one seemed to listen, not that I know what he was yelling.
Seasons not over yet would be better for all of us especially the club if we all got behind Horse instead of turning on him it never ends well.

No one is turning on him. They are absolutely correctly asking questions.

1. We have played the same style over and over with terrible results. There are three possibilities. The cattle are not good enough regardless of how good the game plan (think the battle of the bulge - German army simply no longer able to win the war by Christmas 1944 no matter how clever the strategy). The style is not a winner ( think the French sitting behind the maginot line once tanks had really been developed) or the cattle can't execute (the strategy great and the players good enough but errors made in the actual delivery ie Anzacs landing at the wrong beach). Horse repeatedly goes to 3. Our contested ball is not what we would like he says. Our delivery not there.

I think the question is legitimately being asked whether maybe it is a combination of 1 and 2. I watched some of the game on the iPad last night with the sound turned down. The players gave an effort. In the fourth quarter they really did. A spilled mark by Parker or ramped standing in the whole ruined the effort. But over and over again people here say that the game plan has broken down. And I happen to agree with those who say it. It breaks down under pressure because we can't retain the ball.

I didn't play footy as a kid but played and coached a helluva lot of soccer. At reasonably high levels playing. And if you can't retain possession by passing the ball to a teammate you are under constant pressure. We can't retain possession. We play on lots, we kick to contests where we are outnumbered. We seek the boundary as a way of negating possession, we don't try to kick it to a teammate to retain possession. Footy has become a lot like soccer in recent seasons. There is constant switching around t the back seeking a fast entry forwards, and if it isn't available then looking to start again.

Footy is easier than soccer. If you mark the bloody thing no one can touch you for a few seconds. We just don't get enough uncontested possessions at the moment, everything is contested and hard work. That was what the slingshot gave us - 3-4 goals a game scored from the goal square where you couldn't miss. In the absence of this we are left kicking a lot of shots (rohan, laidler, buddy) from outside fifty which are low percentage and hard work.

Horses game plan can be contrasted with the Lyon suffocation style and the handball crazy Geelong style and the hawthorn precision kicking. Our style is to try and kick it over the pressure. But it's not working and questions have to be asked

 

[Wolftone]

Come on Punts.
Do you really think Horse is telling the players to kick long to an outnumbered player at every opportunity?
Did you see Hanners and Shaw and Jetta and everyone else today attempt to hit up a short option and completely miss their target?
It would not matter what the game plan was, they are playing ordinary, unSwans football. It is really hard to watch and nobody can believe our team is so bad. Yes O'Keefe has looked slow and Shaw keeps turning it over, but that is not the reason we are playing so badly. Half the team looks like they are not trying. It is a bit unfair to say an AFL footballer is not trying, but that is what it looks like. It is hard to believe because we have not seen it from the bloods, certainly not this bloods team.
We all want to know WTF is going on. I can accept if the team has spent all of its tickets and simply aren't good enough anymore, but, what they have dished up so far is gonna turn people off very quickly and give the media more fuel for their Swans bonfire. We shouldn't be making one person responsible because it is a team sport. The whole team (coaches and players) need to show something, it is far too easy to single out players for some harsh criticism but it ain't gonna help the team play any better if they turn up as a group next game and play the same way not to mention the hiding we will get from Fremantle if they do.

I am a bit sick of players getting a game on reputation. I think there would be a few younger players who have buddies who they started out at Sydney or have got to know that are playing well every week in the reserves and can't get a game, because of players would reputation is a lot more dynamic than todays truth. LRT, ROK, Shaw get games every week even though they play badly. Let's face it they look gone. Bring in a few blokes that might just be able to hit a player on the chest with a good kick. Bring in players who are keen to make space and run and spread. If Reg is playing that bad drop him and give Aliir a game or move LRT to the backline. We need to be flexible and this year we haven't been. We play the same side every game virtually and don't mix it up to match up on the opposition. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and take a bloody risk.

 

[Wolftone]

You are kidding, did you see Buddy get a bake at half time ? The problem is that he is stubborn and won't change a game plan that every other coach has worked out, leave a plus one and you F the Swans game plan

You got it Bedford and if Swans then kick long you slot four back and run the ball out for a coast to coast.

 

[bedford]

But he wont, he's coaching to save games, instead of having a crack and attacking

 

[baja]

You are kidding, did you see Buddy get a bake at half time ? The problem is that he is stubborn and won't change a game plan that every other coach has worked out, leave a plus one and you F the Swans game plan

Yeah it didn't look good, and no I didn't hear it but I was told Buddy got instructions and he stuck to them for all of 5 mins in the second half.. Im not absolving Horse from the blame and if true, drag him and give it to him both barrels then send him back out.., probably didn't want to get his hair wet.

 

[theta]

It is footy. It is played outdoors in winter, in the dry or wet. Every team has to play in all kinds of conditions, including the lights going out. Stop making excuses for really bad coaching and play.

You dont get what Im saying. Have a read.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...et-merged-thread.1058307/page-2#post-32560064

 

[baja]

The instructions sucked. Franklin knows a little something about what it means to be a successful AFL player.

Longmire knows a little about something playing as a key forward, especially if it had anything to do with isolating him forward, bombing it to advantage for a player of Buddy/Carey's calibre(Pagans Paddock) if that was what he was trying coz it sure looked like it, not that I have a clue if true but if it was Buddy should do what he was told I don't care how good he is.

 

[DASwan]

In losing Leigh Tudor and then only adding another internal appointment in Mattner i can't help but think that maybe our coaching box has a bit of sameness about it and that we missed an opportunity to bring in some new blood from another club - like when Hawthorn added Ratten ? Would hope we do something next year.

 

[Superstar swan]

I was just trying to think of your players that horse has blooded. The only names I can think of are Cunningham and Biggs and thatnwas out of pure necessity.

Most other clubs stagger young Players through the seniors at various stages of the season. Playing one young player does not greatly diminish the side and it is valuable experience. Last year was a prime example, we limped into finals and had to play 2 players in Biggs and Cunningham that were greatly inexperienced. They played quite well and gathered finals exp.

However I would be more confident calling in youngsters who have 5-10 games exp in finals if the need be. It's not the most appropriate time for debutants.

Our reserves playing in the neafl only magnifies the situation as they are playing sub par competition as illustrated by the result on the weekend. How can young players develop themselves and push as a hard as they can when they have no idea what senior competition is like. Our youngsters are essentially still u/18s players even though they've been in the afl system for 2-3 years . I'm a big fan of blooding youngsters. Even if they play and are completely overwhelmed , they take away knowing what level they have to get to if they want to succeed.

How exactly does a guy like membrey do that when he's kicking 8 goals every week

 

[Superstar swan]

Forgot Johnson, Parker and Mitchell , but I still stand by my point ...either are recruiters are doing a terrible job or hoes doesn't take the punts on them

 

[MarkP]

But he wont, he's coaching to save games, instead of having a crack and attacking

Exactly what I said over the last few weeks. Coaching to not lose rather than to win.

 

[Superstar swan]

Exactly what I said over the last few weeks. Coaching to not lose rather than to win.

He's certainly achieving his goals then

 

[TheMase]

I wonder if Mattner was more out of necessity rather than choice, I am thinking salary cap and retirement. Entirely conjecture.

 

[Punts]

Dunstall OTC had a go at Horse
Forward structure and his structures all over the ground , long bombing , foot skills , hitting targets going inside 50 , Maxwell/Thompson and kicking to out numbed players.
Lack pace
Older players
Skills

 

[baja]

Dunstall OTC had a go at Horse
Forward structure and his structures all over the ground , long bombing , foot skills , hitting targets going inside 50 , Maxwell/Thompson and kicking to out numbed players.
Lack pace
Older players
Skills

He answered "I think its a bit of both".. You seem to be trying very hard to validate your comments. KB's comments on the smothers spoke volumes about our efforts.

 

[Punts]

3 out of the 11 says volumes on how we are traveling

 

[baja]

3 out of the 11 says volumes on how we are traveling

what are you talking about?

 

[baja]

Im reading posters complaining about Grundy being thrown forward, guess what he stuck to the structure and quickly kicked a goal.

 

[swansfan51]

what are you talking about?

I think he means winning 3 of the last 11 games

 

[baja]

I think he means winning 3 of the last 11 games

fair enough, not once have I said we are travelling well