Opinion Our coaches, leadership, game style, and everything else

[Punts]

Im reading posters complaining about Grundy being thrown forward, guess what he stuck to the structure and quickly kicked a goal.[/quote

Im reading posters complaining about Grundy being thrown forward, guess what he stuck to the structure and quickly kicked a goal.

Do you think Longmires structures have been working the last say 15 games and do you really believe Buddy is not following orders

 

[baja]

Do you think Longmires structures have been working the last say 15 games and do you really believe Buddy is not following orders

No and to the second question, I don't know but it doesn't look like it.. what kind of coach would tell him to leave Thompson alone for the easy kick and follow the ball, be unaccountable and do what you like, leave the forward 50 empty?

 

[Punts]

No and to the second question, I don't know but it doesn't look like it.. what kind of coach would tell him to leave Thompson alone for the easy kick and follow the ball, be unaccountable and do what you like, leave the forward 50 empty?

Whos call was it to put Reid back against the Pies and let Maxwell run free ( theres your answer ) or do you think Reid doesn't follow orders and went back on his own call.

 

[MarkP]

The players play how they are trained and coached.

If they are not doing it they haven't been playing to instructions for the better part of a season.

If that is the case Horse is as weak as piss to let it happen and has no control over the team. I don't believe this is the case and in fact the opposite. He is too stubborn to see it is not working and believes too much in the "plan". The brilliance of Tippett allowed him latitude in getting away with it for as long as he did before the flood gates opened, along with the fact he has an awesome list that can overcome against the odds.

 

[baja]

Whos call was it to put Reid back against the Pies and let Maxwell run free ( theres your answer ) or do you think Reid doesn't follow orders and went back on his own call.

different scenarios don't change the goal posts.. I don't disagree about Horse not making certain calls.

 

[Dan87]

Im strangely optimistic, I can only think 1. We haven't bought into the new game plan fully and 2. we have some top cattle waiting in the reserves.

Longmre will only give up on the plan when he sees it in action to his vision and it lets us down. Don't think we're there yet.

The lack of hunger, aggression and speed. Well, a little splash of youth will inject that.

Not panicing, just had a gutful of losing the same way.

 

[Punts]

Even the great man J Bolton has come out and said that Longmire was out coached again

 

[bedford]

Were did he say that

 

[S120]

Were did he say that

MMM match broadcast apparently.

 

[Grongey]

In his defence, John Longmire shares the same birthday as Sir Alex Ferguson.

 

[theta]

Some pretty poor comments in this thread he won us a flag and was deeply involved in a second hes got my respect but it is fair to question some things but please show some respect ya spoilt flogs, weve had some pretty s**t coaches over the years Horse isn't one of them.

Apparently telling people to show respect is not allowed. I agree, a few around here do act like 'spoilt flogs'. Sometimes it seems like we need to beat everyone all the time or it just isnt good enough (for instance losses to Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn, Hawthorn, Freo in the tail end of last year - NOT ACCEPTABLE, despite the team being annihilated by the worst stint of injuries in 10 years and a change of game plan to suit Tippett. There is apparently no room for injuries, game plan changes, form or weather; these are just excuses, not reasons. Its either win or cop abuse. This is apparently 'support', and we cannot question it.

Regarding Longmire though, some pretty questionable coaching decisions from this year and the last have been made, so some criticism it definitely due despite a lack of reasoning behind them.

If the decisions continue to be made without results I can only see the criticism becoming louder.

 

[stevierayswan]

But he wont, he's coaching to save games, instead of having a crack and attacking

well if he is doing that, he's doing a bloody awful job if it.

 

[baja]

Apparently telling people to show respect is not allowed. I agree, a few around here do act like 'spoilt flogs'. Sometimes it seems like we need to beat everyone all the time or it just isnt good enough (for instance losses to Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn, Hawthorn, Freo in the tail end of last year - NOT ACCEPTABLE, despite the team being annihilated by the worst stint of injuries in 10 years and a change of game plan to suit Tippett. There is apparently no room for injuries, game plan changes, form or weather; these are just excuses, not reasons. Its either win or cop abuse. This is apparently 'support', and we cannot question it.

Regarding Longmire though, some pretty questionable coaching decisions from this year and the last have been made, so some criticism it definitely due despite a lack of reasoning behind them.

If the decisions continue to be made without results I can only see the criticism becoming louder.

Don't get me wrong, I get it. Even Richmond cut a spud like Wallace more slack after a few losses is my point. We are not Richmond and Horse is a proven winner.
Yes I totally agree about game changes, structures need to be addressed but in saying that, I don't think any changes would have helped with the s**t some players dished up wherever you played them.. We will see however it did look very much like an under 10's game everyone just following the ball, in the under 10's you can give as much instruction as you like the kids just never listen.

 

[Punts]

Apparently telling people to show respect is not allowed. I agree, a few around here do act like 'spoilt flogs'. Sometimes it seems like we need to beat everyone all the time or it just isnt good enough (for instance losses to Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn, Hawthorn, Freo in the tail end of last year - NOT ACCEPTABLE, despite the team being annihilated by the worst stint of injuries in 10 years and a change of game plan to suit Tippett. There is apparently no room for injuries, game plan changes, form or weather; these are just excuses, not reasons. Its either win or cop abuse. This is apparently 'support', and we cannot question it.

Regarding Longmire though, some pretty questionable coaching decisions from this year and the last have been made, so some criticism it definitely due despite a lack of reasoning behind them.

If the decisions continue to be made without results I can only see the criticism becoming louder.

Long bomb to an out numbered contest because the other 5 forwards are at HB , is that the new game plan because it has been this way for some time now.

 

[bungee]

Game plan my butt. Seemed to me that if the players had executed with anything resembling school yard skill we would have won that game. Silly mistakes, poor ball handling, sloppy kicking, handballs going astray. These things happened whether under pressure or not. McGlynn and one or two others stood up. The rest were having a holiday.

Whatever we did in the preseason it was a waste of time. If I was Horse I'd have the lot flogged then add a little self-flagellation for good measure.

 

[bungee]

Plan A & Plan B? you'd want a bit more than A & B in todays game Bungee. You need strategies to counter opposition strengths and to exploit their weaknesses. You need to know when to apply a particular element of your own game or block an opposition coaching move. You need to be able to have a flexible game plan that incorporates many different facits and be willing to change at any given timer depending on the circumstances. We don't have any of that, we just have A & B, which have turned into F & F.

Introductory overview of Chapter 1 of Coaching 101. Do you think Horse doesn't know this ? It's one thing to trot out the theory, it's another to execute it.

Take this example....

How to get rich

You need a decent source of income and to save as much of this as possible as easily as possible. These savings should be invested to gain maximum yield while spreading the risk across a number of asset classes to create your individual investment portfolio. These investments can also be leveraged through borrowing and there may be tax advantages for doing so. The value of the investment in each asset class within the portfolio should be re-adjusted to maintain the preferred investment ratio, taking profits for better performing asset classes and re-investing them in under-performing assets. This will compound gains and protect profits from a sudden downturn in a particular asset class. Timing of entry and exit into markets is important but the time in market is crucial. Good tax advice is critical for the structuring of assets and debts in such a way as to minimise tax liability.

Easy ? Why aren't we all rich ?

 

[Wolftone]

Introductory overview of Chapter 1 of Coaching 101. Do you think Horse doesn't know this ? It's one thing to trot out the theory, it's another to execute it.

Take this example....

How to get rich

You need a decent source of income and to save as much of this as possible as easily as possible. These savings should be invested to gain maximum yield while spreading the risk across a number of asset classes to create your individual investment portfolio. These investments can also be leveraged through borrowing and there may be tax advantages for doing so. The value of the investment in each asset class within the portfolio should be re-adjusted to maintain the preferred investment ratio, taking profits for better performing asset classes and re-investing them in under-performing assets. This will compound gains and protect profits from a sudden downturn in a particular asset class. Timing of entry and exit into markets is important but the time in market is crucial. Good tax advice is critical for the structuring of assets and debts in such a way as to minimise tax liability.

Easy ? Why aren't we all rich ?

The only rich people are those who wrote the books. I am not trotting out theory, I am quoting Clarkson. He has done pretty well I think. This year is looking good for his side, on the other hand not so good for us.

Football is not Fiscal theory or 'Think and Grow Rich', 'the Power of Positive Thinking' etc all bullshit. Great money spinners for the authors and made a lot of people believe in themselves to their own detriment.

Football is about listening and learning the rules and theories from the great minds in football. Tom Hafey, Ron Barassi, David Parkin, Leigh Matthews, Malcolm Blight. These guys study the game like it is a major at Uni. Clarkson can be added to these guys because he is a guy who studies the game and is willing to change with the tide and even be the next innovator. Horse was an innovator with the Sling Shot but did he actually invent that? Paul Roos was developing sling shot footy the year before he retired.

 

[bedford]

Game plan my butt. Seemed to me that if the players had executed with anything resembling school yard skill we would have won that game. Silly mistakes, poor ball handling, sloppy kicking, handballs going astray. These things happened whether under pressure or not. McGlynn and one or two others stood up. The rest were having a holiday.

Whatever we did in the preseason it was a waste of time. If I was Horse I'd have the lot flogged then add a little self-flagellation for good measure.

Out you come again with the do gooder stuff. Face facts Bunghole we are not playing like the Bloods and someone must take the blame and that is the coach.

 

[DavyRed]

Out you come again with the do gooder stuff. Face facts Bunghole we are not playing like the Bloods and someone must take the blame and that is the coach.

Yes, he must take the blame - but not just him - the players must stand up and do likewise. If the Bloods spirit does indeed still exist and they are still conducting open and honest self-assessment sessions then some harsh words need to be spoken and a few home truths put on the table.

 

[RW]

Out you come again with the do gooder stuff. Face facts Bunghole we are not playing like the Bloods and someone must take the blame and that is the coach.

Wouldn't argue with that but we can do without the Bunghole stuff thanks

 

[Wolfgang West]

Some pretty poor comments in this thread he won us a flag and was deeply involved in a second hes got my respect but it is fair to question some things but please show some respect ya spoilt flogs, weve had some pretty s**t coaches over the years Horse isn't one of them.

I gotta wonder why Franklin kept going way too far up the ground I doubt it was an instruction, he got a bake at half time and stayed a little deeper on Thompson and we started to look good, is/was Horse trying to implement the 'Pagans Paddock'? It looks like it at times and might have worked if Thompson didn't just let Buddy go and stayed back plugging the hole, well played I must say.

I think we needed to leave someone deep in the goal square, I thought ROK who it would have suited perfectly, or the resting ruck however all the players got caught following the ball, was it them not following Horses instructions? Did he give any instructions? I saw Nick Davis shouting and pointing at our goals a lot no one seemed to listen, not that I know what he was yelling.
Seasons not over yet would be better for all of us especially the club if we all got behind Horse instead of turning on him it never ends well.

Who Bob Hammond ?

Allan Joyce and Tony Jewell coached premierships too, didn't mean they could coach.

 

[replicant]

The coaches are fine.

The gameplan is obviously in transition, which was needed because we'd been worked out after the GF. We are playing a completely different way to how we played in 2012, because that stopped working against the good teams. The oft-quoted "we haven't beaten a top 8 side in X games" is a direct indication that we got worked out, and we were really struggling to beat the good teams. Now we could have stayed playing the same way, and kept beating the middle of the road and bottom teams, but the coaches have obviously decided they'd rather try and develop a new plan rather than keep going with the old one. It will take time to gel. We may be in for a season where we miss the 8 (i doubt it, but you never know). But we'll bounce back.

We have players out of form, and i'm all for getting some young guys in and giving them a taste, but this rabid condemnation of the coaches is just silly. Longmire got us a flag, and got us to a PF with a team which had been worked out and was ravaged by the worst injury list i've ever seen. I have complete faith there is a long term plan, and sooner or later we'll come good. When we do, i'll be bumping this thread and calling out all the doubters!

Cheer cheer!

 

[bungee]

The only rich people are those who wrote the books. I am not trotting out theory, I am quoting Clarkson. He has done pretty well I think. This year is looking good for his side, on the other hand not so good for us.

Football is not Fiscal theory or 'Think and Grow Rich', 'the Power of Positive Thinking' etc all bullshit. Great money spinners for the authors and made a lot of people believe in themselves to their own detriment.

Football is about listening and learning the rules and theories from the great minds in football. Tom Hafey, Ron Barassi, David Parkin, Leigh Matthews, Malcolm Blight. These guys study the game like it is a major at Uni. Clarkson can be added to these guys because he is a guy who studies the game and is willing to change with the tide and even be the next innovator. Horse was an innovator with the Sling Shot but did he actually invent that? Paul Roos was developing sling shot footy the year before he retired.

I think you missed the point of the analogy. It's one thing to espouse a theory, even understand it, but it's another to implement it. Longmire would know well what it takes to coach successfully (he has a decent track record) but sometimes not everything clicks into place. Your quoting the theory of coaching by Clarkson and claiming it's as easy as following the instructions is no different to picking up a book on how to get rich (I was quoting Buffet's advice - his track record exceeds Clarkson and it does really work) and thinking that's enough to make the BRW rich list. It's all there. Your quoted theory seems sound but the implementation of any game plan depends on personnel. Clarkson has a team of skilled players who hit targets with unnerving accuracy and stick to their game plan like super-glued velcro. Their team has gelled. They believe in themselves. Sure the ultimate responsibility lies with the coach but when guys like Mal (one of the most accurate in the comp according to some commentators) are struggling to hit the side of the proverbial barn the best game plan in the world isn't going to click.

Four rounds in is not the best time to judge a coach. Let's see what happens with a few key players back, a few underdone players coming back into form and a bit more confidence in the team.

To be honest I'm a bit taken aback by the Longmire hate on this board. How quickly we turn and eat our own.

 

[bungee]

Out you come again with the do gooder stuff. Face facts Bunghole we are not playing like the Bloods and someone must take the blame and that is the coach.

Bedford my good fellow, you've always had it in for Horse. When he first started you argued long and hard that we should have gone to someone outside the club. You went quiet when we won a premiership but returned like a persistent rash as soon as things went awry. Of course Horse takes the blame. That's his job. But don't think the players escape the blame either. Jack was so quiet on the weekend I forgot he was playing until he popped up briefly in the last. Some of the basic errors players were making were so bad they looked like they belonged in a school 'D' team (and not high school either - primary school). You quote Bloods spirit, well I saw none of that on the field (with maybe the exception of mighty mouse). The team are doubting themselves and lacking confidence. How is an assassination by their supposed supporter group going to help that ? The team need our support, win or lose.

 

[RUNVS]

To be honest I'm a bit taken aback by the Longmire hate on this board. How quickly we turn and eat our own.

I don't think it is quick though. Our run home in 2013 was appalling but we all chalked it down to our midfield being tired because they had spent so much of the year covering for injuries to the forward line and defence. Now at the start of the 2014 season that excuse has been blown out of the water as our midfield is still just as bad, if not worse than in the final months of the 2013 season and people are beginning to realise it hasn't just been a month that the Swans have been bad. It has been at least 12 games, if not more since the Swans midfield actually seemed to give a crap.