Far too clever for that.
Jonathan Trott going home
- Thread starter ManWithNoName
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
Far too clever for that.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
Great article by Vaughan, was spot on especially what he said about Trott's pathetic "nut case" comments. Made Trott sound like he had no idea about depression. As Vaughan said, twice Trott has abandoned and both times against the best pace attacks.
Some of us said he was a soft utensil and were slammed for it.
Pretty ordinary to use depression as a shield for a bloke who is just a pussy.
Black Diamond
Sleight of Hand
Probably worth remembering Warner didn't say Trott was weak for going home; he said Trott was weak for the way he was dismissed by Johnson. Warner was then quite wrongly made to carry the can by some for Trott's "condition".
If the English management somehow orchestrated a burnout or tiredness related departure to look like Trott had a mental illness then they deserve everything which comes their way.
If the English management somehow orchestrated a burnout or tiredness related departure to look like Trott had a mental illness then they deserve everything which comes their way.
He didn't even say that Trott was weak, he said the dismissal was. Might sound like a fine line, but it's a big difference. We've all said that when someone plays a stupid shot.
Ian Dargie
Premiership Player
- Jun 14, 2011
- 4,838
- 1,511
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #407
Agreed.
It's one thing to expect people to show some sensitivity around the issue of clinical depression, which, as we were told, isn't about 'not being tough enough' but about a chemical imbalance that can be seriously destabilising. And I reckon that's fair enough.
But it seems that wasn't the issue with Trott. He seems to essentially be saying that the demands and the pressure of playing international cricket took a toll and he couldn't handle it, while distancing himself from the kind of depression that we were told he had and told to tread delicately around. Vaughan says he "feels conned". That's one way of putting it. The upshot is that Trott is fair game as a result.
What about the blokes who stayed and got thrashed and copped all kinds of s**t for it? If Trott simply got to the point where playing international cricket became too hard, why should he get a free pass? Is Trott the only cricketer who has felt the pressure during a big series? No, so why is everyone in such a rush to make excuses for him bailing?
As Vaughan says: "There is a danger we are starting to use stress-related illness and depression too quickly as tags for players under pressure."
Also: "As a player there were many times I went back to my hotel room at night and broke down because I did not know where my next run was going to come from. I thought I was suffering from depression but I was just out of form."
Let me stress, if Trott actually had depression, then he should be left alone and looked after while he recovers. But if he doesn't have depression - and is belittling the suggestion by insisting he's "not crazy" - then that no longer applies and we should go at him like a pack of spider monkeys.
Last edited:
ManWithNoName
TheBrownDog
- Thread starter
- #408
As this thread shows, I was one of those defending him strongest thinking he had an actual condition like depression.
Now, f*** him.
Now, f*** him.
peternorth
Moderator
- May 6, 2005
- 127,434
- 75,558
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #409
the pendulum has swung.
those who were lambasted in this thread are now partially vindicated. perhaps.
those who were lambasted in this thread are now partially vindicated. perhaps.
Perhaps?
Imagine if MJ was as much of a soft utensil as Trott?
He'd be in a mental hospital somewhere.
Imagine if MJ was as much of a soft utensil as Trott?
He'd be in a mental hospital somewhere.
ManWithNoName
TheBrownDog
- Thread starter
- #411
Not really. At the time all evidence pointed to depression or something similar. So those who were under that impression and still told him to toughen up or something similar were deservedly lambasted.
The ECB and Trott have a lot of explaining to do.
No, most realised he was just being a sook. The media and yourself assumed he had depression and were wrong.
Kudos for admitting it however.
ManWithNoName
TheBrownDog
- Thread starter
- #413
You don't recall the posts in this thread that have been deleted then. There were people who were rightly lambasted.
Ok if the gloves are off - here goes Jonathon Trott starring in this clip
peternorth
Moderator
- May 6, 2005
- 127,434
- 75,558
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #415
i disagree. i think there was an undercurrent of doubt surround trott. people don't automatically go on the offensive when there is a hint of depression. something stunk from the outset about the sudden departure and everything that's been espoused in the past few days has justified the opinions of many.
ManWithNoName
TheBrownDog
- Thread starter
- #416
Fair call. I guess I just worry that next time a sportsman does genuinely struggle with something like this and it's actually real, in the back of peoples minds some might think "Is it just another Trott?".
Him using words like "nutcase" and "crazy". That's made me angry to say the least.
peternorth
Moderator
- May 6, 2005
- 127,434
- 75,558
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #417
yep, trott has done inexplicable damage to the support mechanisms and champions of mental illness.
similarly, there were posters here who have been proven correct in their assumptions and analysis. it is interesting, humans have a sense for bullshit artists. mankind can sniff it out.
you were not the only poster who vociferously defended him/counter attacked others, so dont be hard on yourself.
My view is that Trott is in denial and the recording and airing of that interview is a massive mistake. He is finished as an International player in my book.
It's exactly what will happen. People like Trott do so much harm to people with legitimate mental health issues.
How can the Poms blame this on KP?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/jonathan-trott-burnout-row-damaging-3254677
Hoggard has the same opinion as you
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/jonathan-trott-burnout-row-damaging-3254677
Hoggard has the same opinion as you
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
Open slather on the useless pr1ck now.
Warner was bang on the money - weak as piss Trott was.
Trott wasn't worn out - he had simply been found out by Johnson.
I hope he is sledged remorselessly
Warner was bang on the money - weak as piss Trott was.
Trott wasn't worn out - he had simply been found out by Johnson.
I hope he is sledged remorselessly
For Worcestershire?
I thought he would never get selected again before this but surely now he can't play again? How can they justify selecting him again after he has squibbed it like this?
Put a young talented batsman like Root, Taylor, Ballance or Robson in the team. At least they won't run home with their tail between their legs
Ian Dargie
Premiership Player
- Jun 14, 2011
- 4,838
- 1,511
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #424
Not really.
If the assumption was that he had depression, he should have been left alone.
It's not like these guys had some a priori knowledge that he didn't have depression. More likely, they thought he was fair game anyway, which is still wrong, even if it turns out Trott didn't have depression and simply couldn't hack it.
Last edited:
Ian Dargie
Premiership Player
- Jun 14, 2011
- 4,838
- 1,511
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #425
The funny thing is that Trott seems to think he's entitled to walk back into the England side.
Setting aside the nature of his breakdown, isn't it reasonable for selectors to simply say: "Maybe international cricket isn't for you?"
Whatever the specifics, the guy has problems dealing with the demands of playing at that level. OK, so stick to playing at county level. There's no great shame in that. Why does he even want to play for England if it makes him feel like s**t?
I'm reminded of when Andrew Symonds went off the rails and was discarded. That manifested itself differently – Symonds decided to get drunk every second day. But the root cause is similar i.e. a player was no longer willing/able to deal with the demands of international cricket and it warped his whole attitude and approach to playing. The difference is that England tried to protect their man by cloaking his exit in the veil of a 'stress-related illness'. Symonds, in many ways, also had a breakdown that was stress-related but, instead, Australia simply said: 'Bugger off. It's good enough for the 14 other guys in the squad and 20 guys outside it who want your spot, so you're finished.'
Setting aside the nature of his breakdown, isn't it reasonable for selectors to simply say: "Maybe international cricket isn't for you?"
Whatever the specifics, the guy has problems dealing with the demands of playing at that level. OK, so stick to playing at county level. There's no great shame in that. Why does he even want to play for England if it makes him feel like s**t?
I'm reminded of when Andrew Symonds went off the rails and was discarded. That manifested itself differently – Symonds decided to get drunk every second day. But the root cause is similar i.e. a player was no longer willing/able to deal with the demands of international cricket and it warped his whole attitude and approach to playing. The difference is that England tried to protect their man by cloaking his exit in the veil of a 'stress-related illness'. Symonds, in many ways, also had a breakdown that was stress-related but, instead, Australia simply said: 'Bugger off. It's good enough for the 14 other guys in the squad and 20 guys outside it who want your spot, so you're finished.'
- Status
