Opinion Keep Williams in the Center?

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Happy to try him out there against the Hawks as it will be a better test than the GWS mids, but ultimately I think we'll miss his hardness down back. He is too valuable as a gutsy small defender and we'd be hoping guys like Freeman, Adams, JT, Elliott, Kennedy, and Broomhead really step up and demand midfield roles.

I think he could be a good pinch hit option, maybe as a tagger if an opposition mid is getting off the chain, but keep him back.

 

[JackoSpades]

Middle for me

 

[PremierPie13]

I hope he tags Mitchell next week

 

[Hva sher a]

I like williams in the midfield. While macaffer has been good as a tagger he adds little value offensively. I think Williams could be developed into our tagger but also make it as a quality midfielder in his won right. i think Sinclair can play his role down back.

Agree - apart from the last point.
Sincs turns over the ball far too much. Maybe Ramsay could fill Marley's spot in the backline but Sinclair is and always will be a liability

 

[HFF]

His ball use needs to improve to be a midfielder.

 

[ClaytonM]

I think he has the potential to play a similar role as Wellingham through 2010/11. I think people underestimate how important Wellingham was at times, including the Grand Final replay. Williams is not as skilled as Wellingham, particularly off his non-preferred foot, but I would back Williams to apply himself to the task more consistently.

 

[well left]

I think he has the potential to play a similar role as Wellingham through 2010/11. I think people underestimate how important Wellingham was at times, including the Grand Final replay. Williams is not as skilled as Wellingham, particularly off his non-preferred foot, but I would back Williams to apply himself to the task more consistently.

There were a couple of instances where his lack of a right foot were obvious and he needs to work on that.

Was about to say that would hold him back from a midfield role but then I remembered Ben Johnson got around for a couple of games in black and white with no right foot!!!

 

[jimmy35]

I thought he was good yesterday in the middle, tough, stuck some tackles and gave a lot of drive. Don't remember too many turnovers either.

 

[No SPIN]

Love the kid - has that unique inside and outside mid ability.
Assuming he has a tank for the midfield, there will be only one issue which was evident throughout the year but more so yesterday. He has no right side ability and this will be exposed as it yesterday where he was constantly and often awkwardly, turning onto his left when right foot kick was the better option.

 

[DuckToaster]

Buckley wants him in the middle eventually, he said that during last weeks presser. We just need him to build his tank and get more defensive.

 

[pieman123]

Being a tagger is probably the best since his kicking is his weak spot atm

 

[domin8tors]

Williams is our best Small defender so the question for mine is more a case of Sinclair being able to step up into our Small defender which will free up Williams. I Think that he has the discipline to Tag but he also has the dash and creativeness that I don't believe McCaffer brings. I can certainly see him as our run with Tag.

 

[Who_can_say]

Agree - apart from the last point.
Sincs turns over the ball far too much. Maybe Ramsay could fill Marley's spot in the backline but Sinclair is and always will be a liability

This is a tired and outdated argument. Sinclair kicked a crucial goal on Saturday, and his rebound was a welcomed feature of our defence. Ramsay butchered the ball at times despite playing a reasonably good game his disposal efficiency was 50%. Sinclair's last game was 65% kicking efficiency, which is considerably down on his 90% the previous week. Sinclair has considerably improved his disposal, and I would much rather Sinclair was kicking than Williams. Williams also appeared more of a liability over the last few weeks he was in defence, and was lucky not to be dropped for some poor performances.

 

[DaVe86]

Williams the midfielder is a topic I've debated in my mind for a long time now and next week is another terrific opportunity to see how well he can do it at AFL level.

As for what to expect with Williams the midfielder.

The good:
Getting to ground balls he's the quickest in the game. He reacts quicker than anyone and also has incredible strength over the ball seemingly never getting outbodied as we've all seen of Williams the defender and up the field he'll have more opportunities to call on this ability.
Agility and movement in traffic is exceptional. He dodges, weaves and anticipates as well as anyone on our list bar Pendlebury in traffic.
He has the strength and power to drag the ball forward with momentum.
He has straightline speed and with ball in hand can give us some genuine run and carry.
As well as being able to play midfield he's also capable in the front half. Can finish from long range with his 55m kick but also in those front half stoppages and front and centre as a crumber can also finish.
Capable of playing an accountable role and going head to head as he's got the strength, speed, movement and endurance.
Strong tackler.
He adds some real grunt and hardness through the midfield that we've been lacking this season.
He also as a junior has played through the midfield and done so to a strong standard.

The unknowns:
Will he win enough clearances?
Will he win enough inside ball?
Will he win enough outside ball?
*It's mostly will he find enough of the footy and play to a high enough level through the midfield to be relevant? Until we see it it's unclear exactly what numbers he can achieve at AFL level through the midfield. But his mix of traits are midfield appropriate which is where the intrigue for me comes from.

The bad:
Footskills - still inconsistent hitting targets and it's likely to remain that way for Williams.
*With Williams through the midfield we would need to find someone else to replace him in the back half and fill his role. We have lots of negating general defenders who can play that role but none to nearly the same level. And we've got strong depth in midfield options and midfield options who are at AFL level more proven to this point.

--
On Williams the midfielder Derek Hine in that online podcast some months back expressed his doubts suggesting that Williams' value down back is too great and likely greater than his potential value through the midfield.

--

And with Scharenberg injured next year that likely also keeps Williams in the back half for another season. But long term I'm keen to see more of him up the field as in a rotational midfield/forward role I'm confident he can do it. Just whether he can do it better than his role down back, it's something we need to see more of to make a definite call on but I want to see him again through the midfield next week v Hawthorn while our midfield is largely depleted with next week a great opportunity to see what he can do against a strong team.

Excellent post.

I agree he is valuable down back, but I also think we need a midfielder with some defensive ability with Macaffer out of the team.

From what I saw, Marley initially went to Toby Greene in the first quarter but that seemed to be dropped pretty quickly as Greene started getting the ball on a string.

Defending as a midfielder is a lot different to defending as a back pocket where you know your opponent pretty much leads up at the ball. So he'll need to work on his ability to run with an opponent if he is played midfield.

Personally I think we have plenty of options to cover Marley down back if we elect to use him in the middle. There is Sinclair and Ramsay who can pretty much slot straight in, plus we need to get Toovey back to full fitness.

Langdon has Maxwell's role, and has filled in where we thought Scharenberg would.

Then we also have Oxley.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Long term - I prefer Marley as a defender... from a pure defensive point of view, he has shown enough that I am confident that he will be very good (as a minimum) on small forwards for years to come. He has also been showing the endeavour to rebound and push up the ground when that option is available... but its the skillful ball use that is limiting him right now in that role.
And other than Tooves, I don't see another good small 1:1 defender on our list, while we have a lot of guys that can rotate through the midfield. (And I think someone like Langdon, and maybe Scharenburg in future, is better utilised as a HF/loose man role)

I think giving him time through the midfield, particularly at a time like this - is a good experience for him - and will hopefully help hone his ball use, esp. under pressure... but I would rather he uses this experience to then be able to go back and be a more complete player in the backline.

(I also feel the same about suggestions of Elliot rotating through the midfield - its good to add that to the game - but he is much better utilised, long term, in the forward line).

 

[domus]

Still think we could use him down back.

Would Give good Drive from the Backline

NO. He has been poor down back all year. His decision making has been nervous and hesitant and his disposal abysmal. He was a revelation as a midfielder. He must stay there.

 

[swiftdog]

Midfield for mine. The top teams always have midfields that are physically tough to play against. With Ball and Swan (and losing Caff for a year) on their way out over the next couple of years as well we'll need to inject some hardness into the middle. Off the top of my head we have Adams at the moment and Beams has a matured body but the likes of Pendlebury and Sidebottom etc aren't exactly tough to play against from a physical standpoint. You want players that'll dig in and do the hard dirty work when the going gets tough and I think Williams can bring that to our midfield.

As for the Elliott talk I think he needs to be groomed into a specialist forward pocket rather than getting a run through the middle. He's shown that he can be a difference maker in the forward line and I can't see him making the same impact in the middle. Not to mention we probably have better midfield prospects ahead of him anyway.

 

[the mighty T]

Midfielder for sure, he doesn't have the best skills but neither does Swan and he can be used as a tagger and IMO will be better at it then MaCaffer.

Get the right fitness coach in place give him one preseason and put him in the middle.

The bolded reflects my stance. Has everything you want in a tagger with the ability to damage the opposition with ball in hand.

 

[Axl the great]

I would start Marley on the wing or in the middle this week as well as Sinclair and Lamumba as well. Keep Ramsay in the side as the small defender along with Langdon.
This week we cannot afford to go defensive against the Hawks, that ship has sailed and we still cop, and have been copping 15 to 20 goals by trying to play a defensive style that either does not work, or the players do not understand yet.
Nup for me get as much pace around the ball as possible and run run run, we get done by 100 so be it, but grit and pressure but no grunt going forward will not cut it this week im afraid.

 

[KJpie]

I'm not against him eventually playing midfield or trialing it for future benefit.

He's had a s**t year and is not a great decision maker, his skills lack at times, he loses his cool and has much to learn.

Keep him back for the time being to improve on his skill sets and then promote him to a midfield position when the boxes are ticked.

I'm sick of having taggers play mid that cannot hurt on the transition.

That is yesteryear.

 

[Knightmare]

Excellent post.

I agree he is valuable down back, but I also think we need a midfielder with some defensive ability with Macaffer out of the team.

From what I saw, Marley initially went to Toby Greene in the first quarter but that seemed to be dropped pretty quickly as Greene started getting the ball on a string.

Defending as a midfielder is a lot different to defending as a back pocket where you know your opponent pretty much leads up at the ball. So he'll need to work on his ability to run with an opponent if he is played midfield.

Personally I think we have plenty of options to cover Marley down back if we elect to use him in the middle. There is Sinclair and Ramsay who can pretty much slot straight in, plus we need to get Toovey back to full fitness.

Langdon has Maxwell's role, and has filled in where we thought Scharenberg would.

Then we also have Oxley.

Long term it depends on do we rate our defenders? (outside of Toovey/Langdon/Scharenberg/Seedsman) - specifically: Goldsack/Oxley/Sinclair/Ramsay/Armstrong.
Or do we rate our midfielders more highly (Pendlebury/Beams/Sidebottom) - do we like Broomhead/Adams/Freeman/Kennedy/Macaffar/Thomas more? Are Scharenberg/Langdon/Elliott/Fasolo midfielders in the future?

I prefer our midfield as a group which probably keeps Williams back next season and he is very good down back but for list balance I'd slightly prefer him through the midfield with Pendlebury/Beams/Sidebottom lacking some grunt and not enough kickers down back. So it's a tough call and seeing more of Williams the midfielder next week and during the NAB Cup will give us a better idea and allow us to make a more informed decision on this.

Next week given availability Williams is required in my view to play midfield. Next year with Scharenberg injured I'd tend to favour Williams down back as Swan and Ball in addition to Pendlebury, Beams and Sidebottom are our star midfielders and we will no doubt want to get games into Broomhead, Adams, Freeman and Kennedy through there.

It's a really interesting conversation though. Williams even as a forward has a real case and would be a really good forward who rotates through the midfield as part of that larger rotation - showing as a junior that he could do both well.

 

[Robroy22]

I can really see Marley as a faster version of Tony Shaw. A hard working, indomitable midfield mongrel. His kicking will be less exposed in there and he will love the heat of the battle. Get stuck in Marley.

 

[Vicky Park]

I can really see Marley as a faster version of Tony Shaw. A hard working, indomitable midfield mongrel. His kicking will be less exposed in there and he will love the heat of the battle. Get stuck in Marley.

Like your thinking. I'd like to see more 'mongrel' generally in our team, which Bucks has alluded to. Controlled, contained mongrel, to put the fear of god into the opposition. Marley could be our poster boy.

 

[popin]

He could take over blairs role mid/fwd

 

[Knightmare]

He could take over blairs role mid/fwd

He has the ability to. No question.