Kidnapped Israeli youths found dead

[madmug]

I prefer to think of what I wrote as wry observations on a lived life, rather than being stereotyping. It was certainly done with no malicious intent. I suppose I could write similarly about any group I've encountered, through exposure of the particular. The post was prompted by others in a similar, slinging off affectionately vein by blackcat and Contra. FMD, I'm old enough to remember how dull Melbourne mono culture was in the 50s. All difference must be embraced when that sort of torpor is the alternative.

Sorry I didnt intend to infer anything against you. I was waffling about the 'general way' so many people seem to approach the differences between peoples. The Israelis & Palestinians discussion on this thread being the case in point. I cant really relate to your situation as I think Hobart was as anglo as 'blighty' itself when I grew up. My ethnic ignorance was profound. That helped me not to prejudge or generalise about groups of people
Although We did have some Greeks & Italians who owned shops & played football with a round ball. Fancy that.

 

[FalcoX]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/15/us-palestinians-israel-idUSKBN0FI04420140715

So to reiterate, not a single Israeli has been killed by the pop gun rockets fired into the country, but close to 200 Palestinians, mostly civilians, have lost their lives so far. And the world sits back and allows them to get away with such overwhelming overreaction and collective punishment.

Also: "Sami Abu Zuhri, a Hamas spokesman in Gaza, said earlier on Tuesday that the Islamist group had not received an official ceasefire proposal, and he repeated its position that demands it has made must be met before it lays down its weapons".

And what do Hamas want, as stated in the above link:

"Hamas leaders have said a ceasefire must include an end to Israel's blockade of Gaza and a recommitment to a truce reached in an eight-day war there in 2012".

Perfectly sound and reasonable demands. The ball is, and always has been, in Israel's court.

 

[strauchnyy]

Nothing has changed it seems, the world is going to sit back and watch as Israel commits even further war crimes against the Palestinian people.

And before anyone says 'Is it not a war crime when Gaza fires rockets into Israel???!!!?'

Fighting back against a genocidal state that has a total choke-hold on the Gaza Strip, not even allowing the importation of goods to rebuild the rubble, is NOT a war crime. Self defense is NOT a war crime. Especially when Palestinian women and children are being indiscriminately slaughtered. Israel has an Iron Dome and the best missiles and other weapons that US taxpayer money can buy while the besieged Palestinians - the displaced indigenous people of that land (a FACT that some people would do well to remember)- have next to nothing to fight back with and are greatly overpowered by the genocidal Goliath.

Israel may win another battle but it's losing the war. World opinion and demographics are ultimately against the Zionist state. Remember, the Vietcong lost every major battle but prevailed in the end.

There is so much factually wrong with your post that I don't even know where to start. But here goes..

1. You equate "fighting back" with jihadist terrorist rocket fire intentionally aimed at civilians. This IS a war crime. Hamas is "indiscriminately" targeting civilians. How does firing rockets at Israeli women and children, schools etc equal "self defence"? This certainly does not defend themselves and stop Israeli retaliation. Hamas's sole intention is the destruction of Israel and to kill as many Israelis as possible, not to build up their own people. This is FACT.

You criticise Israel in the context that they have bigger weapons. Well I ask you - If you had a deranged neighbour, who is hell bent on killing you, keeps throwing knives at your house to kill you, would you just sit back and go, 'oh well, he cant throw a knife through a wall'. Or would you respond with removing his knives by knocking down his knife stash?

2. Israel is not 'Indiscriminately slaughtering' civilians. Israel target terrorists and rocket launch sites. Hamas target civilians. Show me one piece of direct evidence that Israel 'intentionally' goes after civilian Palestinians. I challenge you. Hamas go as far as instructing their own people to act as human shields whilst Israel instruct its military to warn Palestinian civilians of attacks. Hamas intentionally cower and hide their weapons in mosques, schools and amongst the civilian population, so when despite Israel's warnings and civilians die (as shocking as that is) people like you cry out, and seemingly ignore that it is Israel who actually care more for Palestinian civilians than Hamas do. After all, Hamas "love death as much as the Israeli's love life" (sorry blackcat for repeating this!)

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/hamas-orders-civilians-to-die-in-israeli-airstrikes/

In my above scenario, the deranged neighbour now keeps his knives in his child's cubby house in his back yard. He tells his child to stay in the cubby house, to ensure the cubby house isn't threatened.

3. You are however, correct in that Israel has its iron dome system to protect its civilians. This is because, Israel use its weapons and $ to protect its civilians (and destroy rocket launching sites), as they should.

The reasons in numbers 2 and 3 above are the fundamental reasons why there are more deaths on the Palestinian side.

4. "not allowing the importation of goods to build the rubble" - Sorry, you are wrong again. Israel pumps in aid and supplies to Gaza all the time. They are strict on metals because a lot of it is turned into rockets fired back at Israel. Ironically last week, Hamas fired rockets that blocked the road that allows aid. Hamas recently fired a rocket that hit power supply lines and resulted in 70,000 homes in gaza without electricity.Try again.

Further, you call Israel a genocidal state... yeah ok. Israel may not be perfect, they can make mistakes and they should definitely not be furthering their settlements on Palestinian land. BUT, how can you bring Israel down when the the other side, Hamas, preach hate, violence and martyrdom through relentless propaganda (tv, school curriculum, streets named after suicide bombers) that is parallel to north korea - see my above post, constantly call for the destruction of Israel and its people, demonise the west, resort to islamic jihad and are governed by medieval religious law under terrorist leadership.

Oh and I just saw that Hamas couldn't last 2 hours into a ceasefire (that they constantly called for) without firing more rockets.

The sooner the Palestinian people wake up and realise Hamas is no different to Al-Queda/Taliban and actually bad for its people, the sooner there will be peace (fingers crossed).

 

[FalcoX]

There is so much factually wrong with your post that I don't even know where to start. But here goes..

1. You equate "fighting back" with jihadist terrorist rocket fire intentionally aimed at civilians. This IS a war crime. Hamas is "indiscriminately" targeting civilians. How does firing rockets at Israeli women and children, schools etc equal "self defence"? This certainly does not defend themselves and stop Israeli retaliation. Hamas's sole intention is the destruction of Israel and to kill as many Israelis as possible, not to build up their own people. This is FACT.

You criticise Israel in the context that they have bigger weapons. Well I ask you - If you had a deranged neighbour, who is hell bent on killing you, keeps throwing knives at your house to kill you, would you just sit back and go, 'oh well, he cant throw a knife through a wall'. Or would you respond with removing his knives by knocking down his knife stash?

2. Israel is not 'Indiscriminately slaughtering' civilians. Israel target terrorists and rocket launch sites. Hamas target civilians. Show me one piece of direct evidence that Israel 'intentionally' goes after civilian Palestinians. I challenge you. Hamas go as far as instructing their own people to act as human shields whilst Israel instruct its military to warn Palestinian civilians of attacks. Hamas intentionally cower and hide their weapons in mosques, schools and amongst the civilian population, so when despite Israel's warnings and civilians die (as shocking as that is) people like you cry out, and seemingly ignore that it is Israel who actually care more for Palestinian civilians than Hamas do. After all, Hamas "love death as much as the Israeli's love life" (sorry blackcat for repeating this!)

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/hamas-orders-civilians-to-die-in-israeli-airstrikes/

In my above scenario, the deranged neighbour now keeps his knives in his child's cubby house in his back yard. He tells his child to stay in the cubby house, to ensure the cubby house isn't threatened.

3. You are however, correct in that Israel has its iron dome system to protect its civilians. This is because, Israel use its weapons and $ to protect its civilians (and destroy rocket launching sites), as they should.

The reasons in numbers 2 and 3 above are the fundamental reasons why there are more deaths on the Palestinian side.

4. "not allowing the importation of goods to build the rubble" - Sorry, you are wrong again. Israel pumps in aid and supplies to Gaza all the time. They are strict on metals because a lot of it is turned into rockets fired back at Israel. Ironically last week, Hamas fired rockets that blocked the road that allows aid. Hamas recently fired a rocket that hit power supply lines and resulted in 70,000 homes in gaza without electricity.Try again.

Further, you call Israel a genocidal state... yeah ok. Israel may not be perfect, they can make mistakes and they should definitely not be furthering their settlements on Palestinian land. BUT, how can you bring Israel down when the the other side, Hamas, preach hate, violence and martyrdom through relentless propaganda (tv, school curriculum, streets named after suicide bombers) that is parallel to north korea - see my above post, constantly call for the destruction of Israel and its people, demonise the west, resort to islamic jihad and are governed by medieval religious law under terrorist leadership.

Oh and I just saw that Hamas couldn't last 2 hours into a ceasefire (that they constantly called for) without firing more rockets.

The sooner the Palestinian people wake up and realise Hamas is no different to Al-Queda/Taliban and actually bad for its people, the sooner there will be peace (fingers crossed).

Firstly, there is nothing 'factually wrong' about my post and you going on a incoherent rambling rant doesn't make it so.

'You equate "fighting back" with jihadist terrorist rocket fire intentionally aimed at civilians. This IS a war crime.'

The Palestinians don't have modern weaponry they can use to target military targets, home made pop gun rockets can't be made to target any specific area fyi. And no it is NOT a war crime when it is in direct response to Israel's blockade of Gaza, which is equivalent to an occupation. They control every facet of Gazan life, constantly build new settlements and imprison Palestinians like cattle. To retaliate against such inhumane treatment is not a war crime no matter which way you spin it.

'Well I ask you - If you had a deranged neighbour, who is hell bent on killing you, keeps throwing knives at your house to kill you, would you just sit back and go, 'oh well, he cant throw a knife through a wall'. Or would you respond with removing his knives by knocking down his knife stash?'

That is a ridiculous analogy which is way off the mark, unless you have left out the crucial parts where the guy he is throwing the knives at has taken over half of his house and claimed it as his own and put restrictions on how far out of his house he can move, what and how much he and his family can eat leading to malnutrition and growth stunts in his kids, and frequently cuts out electricity to his house. Not to mention occasionally taking a bulldozer and knocking down one of the walls in his 'deranged neighbor's' house because a far off friend or relative of his has pissed him off and then not allowing him to rebuild the walls leaving him his family to live in something closely resembling a destroyed rubble. And to top it all off, did I mention the fact that both houses were originally owned by the 'deranged neighbour' who had one stripped away from him by force?

I would say then that the 'deranged neighbour' has every right to throw whatever he pleases at the a-hole next door.

'Sorry, you are wrong again. Israel pumps in aid and supplies to Gaza all the time.'

That is a lie. They let in very limited amount of humanitarian aid, and almost no building material. Not just metal as your falsely claim, but also no cement and no wood. Just FYI, you can't build anything when you have no building material

'Oh and I just saw that Hamas couldn't last 2 hours into a ceasefire (that they constantly called for) without firing more rockets."

Refer to my post above.

 

[FalcoX]

What a despicable act of barbarianism that Hamas is denying responsibility for.

Hamas is usually quick to boast about acts against Israel and if they deny responsibility and their is no proof they did it, then I am inclined to believe they didn't.

By the way, where was the outrage when Israeli forces shot dead two teenage protestors in broad day light, killings which were caught on camera by CNN, back in May? That could very well have provoked the kidnappings.

 

[MaddAdam]

The sooner the Palestinian people wake up and realise Hamas is no different to Al-Queda/Taliban and actually bad for its people, the sooner there will be peace (fingers crossed).

There's a massive difference between Hamas and Qaeda (who are also very different from The Taliban)

Do you know what it is?

 

[Stewies Power]

There's a massive difference between Hamas and Qaeda (who are also very different from The Taliban)

Do you know what it is?

Is it that Hamas have an affiliation with terrorist group the Muslim Brotherhood?

 

[MaddAdam]

Is it that Hamas have an affiliation with terrorist group the Muslim Brotherhood?

Hamas believe in democracy and were democratically elected in Gaza in internationally recognised free and fair elections (I know some people who were there as observers) and have been under attack ever since.

 

[The Edukator]

Hamas believe in democracy and were democratically elected in Gaza in internationally recognised free and fair elections (I know some people who were there as observers) and have been under attack ever since.

Yet aren't they still recognised as a terrorist organisation at a diplomatic level?

 

[carnthemlions]

http://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-incremental-genocide-gaza-ghetto/13562
Ilan Pappe's take on it all.

Hamas is usually quick to boast about acts against Israel and if they deny responsibility and their is no proof they did it, then I am inclined to believe they didn't.

By the way, where was the outrage when Israeli forces shot dead two teenage protestors in broad day light, killings which were caught on camera by CNN, back in May? That could very well have provoked the kidnappings.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.596365

 

[strauchnyy]

Firstly, there is nothing 'factually wrong' about my post and you going on a incoherent rambling rant doesn't make it so.

The Palestinians don't have modern weaponry they can use to target military targets, home made pop gun rockets can't be made to target any specific area fyi. And no it is NOT a war crime when it is in direct response to Israel's blockade of Gaza, which is equivalent to an occupation. They control every facet of Gazan life, constantly build new settlements and imprison Palestinians like cattle. To retaliate against such inhumane treatment is not a war crime no matter which way you spin it.

Wow. Your justification of rockets fired at Israeli civilians is somewhat disturbing. Do you also support Isis?

Yeah, by your logic I suppose the Taliban had every right to blow up buses full of civilians (mostly native) in response to allied troops in Afghanistan to 'defend' themselves.

You can go on about the last 60 year history but right now, in this current conflict, Hamas cause Israel to respond to rocket attacks. Here I'll make it simple fore you: Hamas terrorist fires a rocket at Israel (in the hope to Kill Israelis, whether its a man child or dog), Israel respond with blowing up the rocket launching site (to stop the rockets and protects its civilians). If Hamas stop firing rockets, there will be no airstrike from the Israelis.

It's like Hamas want this current conflict to continue.

Refrain from rocket attacks for a significant amount of time will lead to trust, which will lead to to an ease of security around Gaza. Israel cannot ease security around gaza now because if they do, Hamas will send out suicide bombers all over the country. They are jihadist brainwashed terrorists who care more about death than living with Israel.

Those mean old Israeli's are even risking their lives to get Gaza electricity operational.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/1...-workers-brave-rockets-restore-power-to-gaza/

That is a lie. They let in very limited amount of humanitarian aid, and almost no building material. Not just metal as your falsely claim, but also no cement and no wood. Just FYI, you can't build anything when you have no building material

haha, yeah mate. Would love would you're smoking.

Israel supply millions of tonnes of supplies every year to Gaza. They provide medical care to the wounded and to thousands of Palestinians (including the grand-daughter of one of Hamas's officials currently - would Hamas do this for Israel? No, they would drag their bodies through the streets of Gaza).

Now, if only Hamas would stop abusing this gesture to turn the supplies (concrete etc) into weapons...

'Oh and I just saw that Hamas couldn't last 2 hours into a ceasefire (that they constantly called for) without firing more rockets."

Refer to my post above.

Yes, Hamas called for a ceasefire, Israel stopped, Hamas continued to fire rockets - around 50 rockets in 2 hours.

But hey, what else can you expect from terrorists with such a thirst for blood?

 

[MaddAdam]

Yet aren't they still recognised as a terrorist organisation at a diplomatic level?

Their armed wings yes. I think the whole lot in certain places - US, Aust too.

 

[FalcoX]

Wow. Your justification of rockets fired at Israeli civilians is somewhat disturbing. Do you also support Isis?

Yeah, by your logic I suppose the Taliban had every right to blow up buses full of civilians (mostly native) in response to allied troops in Afghanistan to 'defend' themselves.

You can go on about the last 60 year history but right now, in this current conflict, Hamas cause Israel to respond to rocket attacks. Here I'll make it simple fore you: Hamas terrorist fires a rocket at Israel (in the hope to Kill Israelis, whether its a man child or dog), Israel respond with blowing up the rocket launching site (to stop the rockets and protects its civilians). If Hamas stop firing rockets, there will be no airstrike from the Israelis.

It's like Hamas want this current conflict to continue.

Refrain from rocket attacks for a significant amount of time will lead to trust, which will lead to to an ease of security around Gaza. Israel cannot ease security around gaza now because if they do, Hamas will send out suicide bombers all over the country. They are jihadist brainwashed terrorists who care more about death than living with Israel.

Those mean old Israeli's are even risking their lives to get Gaza electricity operational.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/1...-workers-brave-rockets-restore-power-to-gaza/



haha, yeah mate. Would love would you're smoking.

Israel supply millions of tonnes of supplies every year to Gaza. They provide medical care to the wounded and to thousands of Palestinians (including the grand-daughter of one of Hamas's officials currently - would Hamas do this for Israel? No, they would drag their bodies through the streets of Gaza).

Now, if only Hamas would stop abusing this gesture to turn the supplies (concrete etc) into weapons...



Yes, Hamas called for a ceasefire, Israel stopped, Hamas continued to fire rockets - around 50 rockets in 2 hours.

But hey, what else can you expect from terrorists with such a thirst for blood?

Wow. Your justification of rockets fired at Israeli civilians is somewhat disturbing.

Explain to me how? It is a FACT that they have been kicked off their land, herded into a giant outdoor prison and treated like animals by their captors. Do you expect them to be grateful to Israel for their inhumane treatment?

Do you also support Isis?

Trash.

Yeah, by your logic I suppose the Taliban had every right to blow up buses full of civilians (mostly native)

More trash.

You can go on about the last 60 year history

Fail. As much as repugnant Israel apologists like you would like to think otherwise, you cannot have an honest and proper discussion of the conflict without taking into account the historical background. Try again.

in this current conflict, Hamas cause Israel to respond to rocket attacks.

More like: Israel's constant oppression of the people of Gaza, most notably through the military blockade, has caused a dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, leading to health and sanitation problems, poverty and malnutrition for the 1.5 million residents. The rockets are fired in response to those Israeli atrocities.

Refrain from rocket attacks for a significant amount of time will lead to trust, which will lead to to an ease of security around Gaza.

Hamas tried that in 2008. In May of that year, prior to the ceasefire, over 300 rockets were fired into Israel, but that number was reduced drastically after the ceasefire agreement, so much so that in September of that year less than 10 rockets were fired into Israel (causing NO casualties), all by groups opposing Hamas, with most by Fatah-allied groups. Hamas was quick to put down the rocketeers and was actively trying to hold their end of the truce. Israel on the other hand, still only allowed limited amounts of aid into Gaza, and officially broke the truce when its troops made an incursion into Gaza and killed 6 Hamas members in November, leading to a resumption of Rocket attacks.

And in 2006, the truce was broken after Israeli forces fired rockets on a Gaza beach, killing a family of 8.

Of course in your revisionist history none of this occurred and Israel is an innocent angel. Pull the other one.

Israel cannot ease security around gaza now because if they do, Hamas will send out suicide bombers all over the country.

They don't have to ease security, but they must absolutely allow far more aid into Gaza than the paltry amount they currently let in. Only then can progress be made towards more longer lasting peace.

Israel supply millions of tonnes of supplies every year to Gaza.

Which part of not enough aid is being let in do you not understand? Malnutrition is widespread among the people of Gaza, and a large number of kids have experienced growth stunts. Houses and other construction projects can't continue when there is a severe shortage of building materials. Read up on this as your ignorance on this issue is simply astounding.

And it is the international community that supplies aid to Gaza, Israel merely decides how little of that aid it lets into the region.

 

[MaddAdam]

Actually, strauchnyy Hamas has long ago renounced suicide bombing as a tactic

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/apr/09/israel

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Seriously who the * cares anymore?

Everytime there's a peace treaty one side murders kidnaps or rapes the other.

Anyone who thinks the Palestinians don't want to wipeout the Israelis because they are jews are blinded one eyed morons.

Anyone who doesn't see that the Israelis want to slowly expand Israeli and make it jew heaven driving 100,000's from there homes are also kidding themselves.

There can be no peace between these groups, why everybody acts shocked when it blows up again is beyond me.

Anyone who thinks it's not religious s**t when it boils down to it are dreaming, actually look at the region it's a shithole and always will be unless your a religious nut you wouldnt want to live there.

The best way to end this is arm both sides to the teeth and let them massacre each other until only one remains.

Yes millions will die, but afterwards there's sustained peace short term it's horrible about within a decade you would see lasting peace.

The alternative is countless back and forth bombings and shootings and generations upon generations of people literally hating and mean hating in the traditional sense (a term which I'd wager none of us truly understand) someone simply because they worship a different interpretation of the same god and grew up on the other side of the fence.

As long as we allow so called morality to dictate restrictions in force the war will never end, if this continues like this (and all indications are it will) when my grandkids, grandkids are celebrating their own grandkids birthday a 9yr old will watch the news and see these two groups murdering, kidnapping, raping one another and ask why they can't get along.

Lasting peace only comes as a result of unrestrained war.

 

[sherb]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...each-as-humanitarian-ceasefire-announced.html

Congratulations Israel, you must be so proud.

 

[Lsta062]

Three of their people died. To avenge their killers, they kill hundreds of Palestinians.

No rational person would kill hundreds of people if three of their people have been found dead. If three people of my suburb have been killed, I would not bomb the entire suburb of where I speculate the killers might come from. That wouldn't be right. Similarly, it is not right for the Israeli military to cause hundreds of casualties just because three of their people died.

It is obvious that they only want an excuse to kill Palestinians. Clearly, any excuse will do according to them

 

[strauchnyy]

Three of their people died. To avenge their killers, they kill hundreds of Palestinians.

No rational person would kill hundreds of people if three of their people have been found dead. If three people of my suburb have been killed, I would not bomb the entire suburb of where I speculate the killers might come from. That wouldn't be right. Similarly, it is not right for the Israeli military to cause hundreds of casualties just because three of their people died.

It is obvious that they only want an excuse to kill Palestinians. Clearly, any excuse will do according to them

They are not 'avenging' the 3 dead. After the three teenagers were kidnapped and murdered, Hamas starting firing dozens of rockets at Israeli civilian areas (with the intention of causing more murder). In response to this, Israel have gone about targeting the rocket launching sites, the terrorists themselves or where they store the rockets.

They are not bombing random civilian houses out of revenge.

Your last line is just 100% wrong. If they wanted to kill Palestinians, they would all be dead already. They wouldn't be warning them with leaflets, phone calls to evacuate if they wanted them killed. The many deaths is largely due to Hamas intentionally firing rockets in civilian areas, and hiding rockets in civilian areas.

If Israel refrained from this exercise, they would risk their own population being hit by rockets. What would you, or Aus do if there was an Islamic Jihad group firing rockets into Richmond from the outer suburbs? Its intolerable.

 

[slicedndiced]

How long till the phosphorous gets another go?

 

[Lsta062]

They are not 'avenging' the 3 dead. After the three teenagers were kidnapped and murdered, Hamas starting firing dozens of rockets at Israeli civilian areas (with the intention of causing more murder). In response to this, Israel have gone about targeting the rocket launching sites, the terrorists themselves or where they store the rockets.

They are not bombing random civilian houses out of revenge.

Your last line is just 100% wrong. If they wanted to kill Palestinians, they would all be dead already. They wouldn't be warning them with leaflets, phone calls to evacuate if they wanted them killed. The many deaths is largely due to Hamas intentionally firing rockets in civilian areas, and hiding rockets in civilian areas.

If Israel refrained from this exercise, they would risk their own population being hit by rockets. What would you, or Aus do if there was an Islamic Jihad group firing rockets into Richmond from the outer suburbs? Its intolerable.

Not what is going on. Israel clearly stated that they will make a response for the death of the three teenagers. From there it snowballed into what you see today.

It is their rockets that are causing civilian deaths. If the sites that they are bombarding is killing hundreds of civilians, they should stop immediately. But they do not do that. They obviously do not care if so many civilians die in the process of finding the so-called terrorists. If the zionists came and bombed your suburb just because they believe terrorists are there, would that be acceptable? No it wouldn't. Why? Because they are taking many innocent people with them.

Israel obviously have the tools to stop the rockets from killing their own civilians as they have been doing so until now. They could have continued to protect their area while killing no Palestinian civilian to negotiate a ceasefire. But instead, they had to "think" about it when Egypt approached them while they were continuing to bombard innocent Palestinians. They have torn families apart, little children have lost their parents and siblings. Others have lost their limbs and will not live life as they used to. Do not make up excuses for their actions. People have been using the "terrorist" excuse for years now and destroy the country that they enter during the process. What is going on now in Gaza is what I call genocide

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Great logic about hamas action "they aren't killing many so the reaction by Israeli is unjustified"

So it's fine to do a drive by as long as you don't hit anyone?

Both sides are scum hamas intentions are to kill civilians the end, just because they are s**t at it doesn't make them the good guys.

 

[FalcoX]

Jon Stewart rips into the sham 'warnings' given to civillians prior to the bombings

 

[strauchnyy]

Not what is going on. Israel clearly stated that they will make a response for the death of the three teenagers. From there it snowballed into what you see today.

Yes, check the facts for yourself it is what is going on.

the 'response' is that they will disarm Hamas and go after the Hamas terrorists. They. are. not. actively. going. after. civilians.

It is their rockets that are causing civilian deaths. If the sites that they are bombarding is killing hundreds of civilians, they should stop immediately. But they do not do that. They obviously do not care if so many civilians die in the process of finding the so-called terrorists. If the zionists came and bombed your suburb just because they believe terrorists are there, would that be acceptable? No it wouldn't. Why? Because they are taking many innocent people with them.

Most western countries including the European Union and as well as fellow arab countries in Egypt and Jordan classify Hamas as a terrorist organisation. Australia does. They celebrate murder, brainwash their children and name streets after suicide bombers. Oh and they also shoot rockets at civilians. Just coz they don't get many past the iron dome, doesnt make it fine. It's the savage intent. No other country has to deal with terrorist rocket attacks on a daily basis.

Israel is doing as best they can to stop these jihadist terrorists whilse minimising deaths. There is plenty of material on the internet illustrating that Israel refrains from bombing if they know civilians are inside the building.

Israel obviously have the tools to stop the rockets from killing their own civilians as they have been doing so until now. They could have continued to protect their area while killing no Palestinian civilian to negotiate a ceasefire. But instead, they had to "think" about it when Egypt approached them while they were continuing to bombard innocent Palestinians. They have torn families apart, little children have lost their parents and siblings. Others have lost their limbs and will not live life as they used to. Do not make up excuses for their actions. People have been using the "terrorist" excuse for years now and destroy the country that they enter during the process. What is going on now in Gaza is what I call genocide

What and just let Hamas shoot rockets at them constantly forever? What would you honestly do if you were Israel? I am actually curious. You either do nothing and have your own country subject to terrorism on a daily basis, where the entire population is forced into bomb shelters. Or you actively try to stop the terrorists and disarm them. If they stop all security on Gaza they risk suicide bombers and more terrorism. I look forward to your solution.

They did stop a ceasefire and guess who kept fighting and shooting rockets?? Hamas.

They order their people to stay inside to effectively put themselves in danger and act as human shields. You might want to consider these things instead of defending them.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/hamas-orders-civilians-to-die-in-israeli-airstrikes/

I don't defend Israel with everything they do, they make mistakes and civilian casualties are attrocious no matter the side and I admit that. But almost EVERYTHING Hamas do is pure evil who proclaim to 'love death more than the israelis love life". They are terrible for their own people, not just Israel.

You can keep criticizing Israel, but at the end of the day, they are the only western nation in the middle east surrounded by nations trying to wipe them off the map. They are just trying to defend their population and Live.

 

[carnthemlions]

Yes, check the facts for yourself it is what is going on.

the 'response' is that they will disarm Hamas and go after the Hamas terrorists. They. are. not. actively. going. after. civilians.



Most western countries including the European Union and as well as fellow arab countries in Egypt and Jordan classify Hamas as a terrorist organisation. Australia does. They celebrate murder, brainwash their children and name streets after suicide bombers. Oh and they also shoot rockets at civilians. Just coz they don't get many past the iron dome, doesnt make it fine. It's the savage intent. No other country has to deal with terrorist rocket attacks on a daily basis.

Israel is doing as best they can to stop these jihadist terrorists whilse minimising deaths. There is plenty of material on the internet illustrating that Israel refrains from bombing if they know civilians are inside the building.



What and just let Hamas shoot rockets at them constantly forever? What would you honestly do if you were Israel? I am actually curious. You either do nothing and have your own country subject to terrorism on a daily basis, where the entire population is forced into bomb shelters. Or you actively try to stop the terrorists and disarm them. If they stop all security on Gaza they risk suicide bombers and more terrorism. I look forward to your solution.

They did stop a ceasefire and guess who kept fighting and shooting rockets?? Hamas.

They order their people to stay inside to effectively put themselves in danger and act as human shields. You might want to consider these things instead of defending them.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/hamas-orders-civilians-to-die-in-israeli-airstrikes/

I don't defend Israel with everything they do, they make mistakes and civilian casualties are attrocious no matter the side and I admit that. But almost EVERYTHING Hamas do is pure evil who proclaim to 'love death more than the israelis love life". They are terrible for their own people, not just Israel.

You can keep criticizing Israel, but at the end of the day, they are the only western nation in the middle east surrounded by nations trying to wipe them off the map. They are just trying to defend their population and Live.

Israel is a Western nation?
The whole "last bastion of civilisation" thing is laughable(not to mention incredibly harmful to Israel's cause). Not a helpful mindset to encourage in your population. It worked really well for Australia and South Africa, didn't it?

It's pretty clear where the balance lies if you can be bothered to look at the situation with some sort of objectivity.
Besides, what the Israeli government is doing right now is ultimately pointless. There can be no victory, all they're doing is ensuring that things will be much worse in a decade or so. That's what happens when you let the right wing lunatics and Religious nuts have too much power.

 

[Lsta062]

Yes, check the facts for yourself it is what is going on.

the 'response' is that they will disarm Hamas and go after the Hamas terrorists. They. are. not. actively. going. after. civilians.



Most western countries including the European Union and as well as fellow arab countries in Egypt and Jordan classify Hamas as a terrorist organisation. Australia does. They celebrate murder, brainwash their children and name streets after suicide bombers. Oh and they also shoot rockets at civilians. Just coz they don't get many past the iron dome, doesnt make it fine. It's the savage intent. No other country has to deal with terrorist rocket attacks on a daily basis.

Israel is doing as best they can to stop these jihadist terrorists whilse minimising deaths. There is plenty of material on the internet illustrating that Israel refrains from bombing if they know civilians are inside the building.



What and just let Hamas shoot rockets at them constantly forever? What would you honestly do if you were Israel? I am actually curious. You either do nothing and have your own country subject to terrorism on a daily basis, where the entire population is forced into bomb shelters. Or you actively try to stop the terrorists and disarm them. If they stop all security on Gaza they risk suicide bombers and more terrorism. I look forward to your solution.

They did stop a ceasefire and guess who kept fighting and shooting rockets?? Hamas.

They order their people to stay inside to effectively put themselves in danger and act as human shields. You might want to consider these things instead of defending them.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/hamas-orders-civilians-to-die-in-israeli-airstrikes/

I don't defend Israel with everything they do, they make mistakes and civilian casualties are attrocious no matter the side and I admit that. But almost EVERYTHING Hamas do is pure evil who proclaim to 'love death more than the israelis love life". They are terrible for their own people, not just Israel.

You can keep criticizing Israel, but at the end of the day, they are the only western nation in the middle east surrounded by nations trying to wipe them off the map. They are just trying to defend their population and Live.

I do not support terrorism at all, because terrorists kill Muslim more than what they kill Westeners (just look at what happened in Syria). As a Muslim, I know of the harm that they cause to others. Their ideology is not in accordance to the Islamic ideology and I know that. But, I cannot comment on Hamas. I do not know who they are and whether they are terrorists or not (which is why I said so-called terrorists because it is not my claims).

However, it is unreasonable to suggest that Israel should not take blame for the deaths of the innocent Palestinians that they have murdered. They cannot blame Hamas for what they have done with their own rockets. There are definitely other options than to bombard innocent people. They cannot decide to just kill all of the surrounding civilians, and no one can stand there and say that they are left with no other option