I wouldn't think too hard about Henderson. I'm thinking our own MC will turn out as good as, if not better. Would rather time & effort spent on what we have while heading down the stop-gap path mentioned by Dan12 above.
KPF Watch
- Thread starter PattyKwasagun
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- Apr 3, 2012
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I cant help but feel that Hawkins is massively overrated. Just doesnt impact games anymore.
- Aug 10, 2005
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100% agree. Would struggle to be in the top 10 key forwards at the moment.
We traded up to pick 5 giving over our pick 10 and others. We could have drafted Lynch with that pick. Other clubs have shown how you can trade down a few spots and pick up later picks as well aka Adelaide this year. In 2011 we drafted Longer and Tomlinson was picked the very next pick and even though he isn't true KPF size he would have added to our stocks.
True, I suppose my opinions are based out of frustration with a few things. Firstly always having to hear about our lack of KPF stocks and where are we going to kick goals from and secondly helping to prop up the bottom of the table the last few years.
I'm concerned about the KPF situation, but I think it's worth remembering that we do have at least some promise on the list.
- Close, for his faults, seems pretty driven and works really hard defensively. The difference between an ineffective forward (20 goals per season) and a pretty useful forward (40 goals per season) is really just one more grab sticking or one straighter kick. I have a lot of confidence he's capable of that. I think sometimes people underrate application compared to the starting point of ability.
- Freeman lacks condition, but seems to have some of the qualities that Close lacks. For one thing, he's bigger and a more natural contested mark. It's hard to say what his upside is, but he certainly has had flashes of looking dangerous and a good finisher. Let's see how he goes towards the end of this season.
- McStay is a great mark of the ball but really hasn't played in the forward line much. People producing the 'obviously not listening to Browny' line really need to take a deep breath. He is two games in and has goaled in both games. He faded out of the North game a lot, but bobbled two marks that on another night he would've taken. At least one of them was a really straightforward kick. If he kicks one, or both, it's a 2-3 goal night in a game we were being destroyed. He needs to impact the game more consistently, but that will come with experience.
- Hammelmann is only rookie listed, but he went through the AIS-AFL academy (ie has at least a base level of starting talent) and is doing well in the reserves at the moment. Who knows where he could wind up.
It's also worth remembering that these pretty much are our options (discounting McGuane and Staker, who is very short term at best) and they're all under 21 as far as I know. We're probably at least 2 years away from being pretty sure that we don't have a first choice option amongst them.
The thing we are certainly missing is the pack-crashing type. Stef looked to be doing okay early on in the forward line, but (to my eye) had to swing back into the ruck because Goldstein was pushing Leuey around. I reckon Stef is a chance of being useful (if not dominant) up there.
- Close, for his faults, seems pretty driven and works really hard defensively. The difference between an ineffective forward (20 goals per season) and a pretty useful forward (40 goals per season) is really just one more grab sticking or one straighter kick. I have a lot of confidence he's capable of that. I think sometimes people underrate application compared to the starting point of ability.
- Freeman lacks condition, but seems to have some of the qualities that Close lacks. For one thing, he's bigger and a more natural contested mark. It's hard to say what his upside is, but he certainly has had flashes of looking dangerous and a good finisher. Let's see how he goes towards the end of this season.
- McStay is a great mark of the ball but really hasn't played in the forward line much. People producing the 'obviously not listening to Browny' line really need to take a deep breath. He is two games in and has goaled in both games. He faded out of the North game a lot, but bobbled two marks that on another night he would've taken. At least one of them was a really straightforward kick. If he kicks one, or both, it's a 2-3 goal night in a game we were being destroyed. He needs to impact the game more consistently, but that will come with experience.
- Hammelmann is only rookie listed, but he went through the AIS-AFL academy (ie has at least a base level of starting talent) and is doing well in the reserves at the moment. Who knows where he could wind up.
It's also worth remembering that these pretty much are our options (discounting McGuane and Staker, who is very short term at best) and they're all under 21 as far as I know. We're probably at least 2 years away from being pretty sure that we don't have a first choice option amongst them.
The thing we are certainly missing is the pack-crashing type. Stef looked to be doing okay early on in the forward line, but (to my eye) had to swing back into the ruck because Goldstein was pushing Leuey around. I reckon Stef is a chance of being useful (if not dominant) up there.
Bucking Beads
Brownlow Medallist
I think every KPF that is half good that is in our age bracket who is coming off contract this season or next will be getting some big offers from us.
Yep we will be in so deep with massive offers to Hawkins, Carlisle and Henderson it will almost be embarrassing at what we are going to table to these blokes. I am pretty confident we will land a big fish.
Bucking Beads
Brownlow Medallist
A decent KPF is huge when it comes to our structure and game plan. That said we also need a Key backmen. Firstly though we need to win it out of the middle which we don't even with a decent midfield and decent rucks.
Funny how that is conveniently forgotten in the usual hysteria.
Yep, straightens us up.
If it came down to a choice of getting Rance or Carlisle/Henderson, I would take Rance every day of the week. I think Gardiner can be that Rance type player for us over the next couple of years and if we had both of them in the backline we would be set for the next 6 or so years.
West was alright for a couple of contested marks
Exactly, suprisingly players don't just play for money as most of us would have thought. We can throw as much money as we want around but prospective players will be looking at our club and wanting to see where is it heading. If we are able to get some KPF from others at the end of this year it won't be elite or star KPF's. It will be those that aren't really getting a good run at it in regards to playing firsts. We need some bigger bodies desperately so I do hope that we get at least one to play KPF and KPD. Then draft the crap out of every KPP we can get our hands on, develop them and in a few years so there is a spot if your good enough and create some competition in those spots.
You see, the trouble there was that Brown was a decent CHF. Once Lynch retired, and Braddy was always in hospital or mending somewhere, Brown was our man, and he did a half okay job of it. So forever after, that is where we kicked.
What we need is a few mediocre blokes, ones that can't be relied upon. This will keep the opposition guessing and open up the options. Yep, 3 talls, doesn't matter which you kick to.
Could also make a case of the forwards actually leading. They just don't do it and it's often half arsed with no repeat efforts.
- Jul 15, 2012
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I think this is a pretty good summation of where we probably are at. I think people tend to assume that all players develop equally at the same pace. Especially many key position players can't do what is required for years and then suddenly they can.
Now obviously some guys make it straight away and many more never make it and get cut. But guys like Freeman, McStay and Close and certainly Hammelmann are new enough that they probably need another twenty or thirty games to really pass judgement on them. I thought Hawkins was rubbish for a few years before he finally showed some promise. But in those few years he learned a lot of what makes the difference now.
The old military adage is true here: if you want battle hardened troops you are going to have to send them to war at some point. We have to expose our young guys to the best defenses and let them learn. And sometimes that will be painful for all of us.
We may find that the solutions to our key forward problems are already here but just need time. Maybe we can buy a ready-made one in (and I hope we do) but if that one gets a season ending injury in the first game...then what?
And as someone else commented, give our young forwards some quality ball and we can probably sit back and enjoy watching them develop. They aren't really getting that at the moment.
We need a channel for conveying fluid?
We are all clutching at straws. Humour is the best remedy.Me no speaka the smart talk
I am clutching at straws with my posting at the moment!!!
