Kudos to Richo and the coaching staff

Big Mart

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Ideally I'd like Lee delisted and two new boys coming in through the draft, in the hope one or both are AFL quality.

Lee is built like Jack Gunston, but plays like Jay Schultz... So is fairly ineffective at AFL level. His talent level is still a ? As Richo pointed out to defend his subbing, Also

I have seen him perform well in two VFL games... (Vs Frankston and Bendigo... Two bunnies)

And occasionally he has been handy with. A couple of goals here and there.....how ever that is not enough... He has to contribute in other facets and be less one dimensional at his size.
 

Periphery

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Ideally I'd like Lee delisted and two new boys coming in through the draft, in the hope one or both are AFL quality.

Lee is built like Jack Gunston, but plays like Jay Schultz... So is fairly ineffective at AFL level. His talent level is still a ? As Richo pointed out to defend his subbing, Also

I have seen him perform well in two VFL games... (Vs Frankston and Bendigo... Two bunnies)

And occasionally he has been handy with. A couple of goals here and there.....how ever that is not enough... He has to contribute in other facets and be less one dimensional at his size.

:rolleyes:
 

felsty

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Ideally I'd like Lee delisted and two new boys coming in through the draft, in the hope one or both are AFL quality.

Lee is built like Jack Gunston, but plays like Jay Schultz... So is fairly ineffective at AFL level. His talent level is still a ? As Richo pointed out to defend his subbing, Also

I have seen him perform well in two VFL games... (Vs Frankston and Bendigo... Two bunnies)

And occasionally he has been handy with. A couple of goals here and there.....how ever that is not enough... He has to contribute in other facets and be less one dimensional at his size.
Just stop
 
I don't think the club would want that age bracket leaving us right now and if he is RFA we can match an offer.
Who knows after Macca last year nothing would surprise.
Just like when we got Hamill & Gehrig , to get good players you have to lose good players like we did with players like the Wakelins.
We cant turn into Collingwood and think we can offer s**t to get diamonds.
If trading Gears strengthens the list then I think they would trade him.
Im hoping we are going to be extremely aggressive during the next trading period
 

Dopey BJ

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Just like when we got Hamill & Gehrig , to get good players you have to lose good players like we did with players like the Wakelins.
We cant turn into Collingwood and think we can offer s**t to get diamonds.
If trading Gears strengthens the list then I think they would trade him.
Im hoping we are going to be extremely aggressive during the next trading period
More talking about him going by FA and getting bugger all compo
 
Ideally I'd like Lee delisted and two new boys coming in through the draft, in the hope one or both are AFL quality.

Lee is built like Jack Gunston, but plays like Jay Schultz... So is fairly ineffective at AFL level. His talent level is still a ? As Richo pointed out to defend his subbing, Also

I have seen him perform well in two VFL games... (Vs Frankston and Bendigo... Two bunnies)

And occasionally he has been handy with. A couple of goals here and there.....how ever that is not enough... He has to contribute in other facets and be less one dimensional at his size.
We used pick 12 on him. He has been injured a fair bit. And during his first yr he was supposed to slot in with Roo, Kosi, Milne and Schneids in the forward line somewhere. Id like to think we would show a little more faith in him just yet.
Id give him another 2 seasons before id even think twice about delisting him.
 

cooperrules

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Ideally I'd like Lee delisted and two new boys coming in through the draft, in the hope one or both are AFL quality.

Lee is built like Jack Gunston, but plays like Jay Schultz... So is fairly ineffective at AFL level. His talent level is still a ? As Richo pointed out to defend his subbing, Also

I have seen him perform well in two VFL games... (Vs Frankston and Bendigo... Two bunnies)

And occasionally he has been handy with. A couple of goals here and there.....how ever that is not enough... He has to contribute in other facets and be less one dimensional at his size.
I agree. But he does deserve at least one more year to have a chance to prove himself hes had horrid run. My biggest issue is hes injury prone and I have a feeling that will be his downfall not his talent.
 
As for the coaching staff im just happy we are still attacking. Hey it doesn't always work. Sometimes we got smashed and in the Kangas game we kicked like a bunch of one legged snakes.
But we kept trying to attack at least.
Melb under Roos has tried to be more defensive. They had a game with only 3 goals as well. But as they kept the opposition to a reasonably low score as well their 3 goals kind of slid under the radar. And the didn't cop a media bagging like us.
But I guarantee with their mindset they wont come out this yr and smack one of the top teams like we smacked freo.
Keep going with the attacking mindset IMO and when she all comes together we will be an exciting high scoring team.
 

KingJim

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Yes the attack on the ball and player was the closest we have come to the 'frontal pressure' of a few years ago. And it works, the opposition make mistakes. I liked how we capitalised from turnovers, that's what pressure does.
 
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Yes the attack on the ball and player was the closest we have come to the 'frontal pressure' of a few years ago. And it works, the opposition make mistakes. I liked how we capitalised from turnovers, that's what pressure does.
I think you'll find that what you call 'pressure' is being 'defensive'.
We all agree we should keep attacking the ball.
What CALL ME SNAKE means is that we should keep being more 'offensive', attacking the big sticks relentlessly.
Nevertheless, love the tackle count myself and eat turnovers for breakfast.
 
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Just posted this in the Shane Savage thread. I'm really happy with performance of Sav, and excited with the latest effort from Bruce (or more accurately the forward set up overall and how he fit into it)...

But it concerns me that we thought Savage was a forward solution, we're actually playing him down back, and now have a hope he ends up where he wanted to be after all (wing). That means we still have a gap for a Fwd/Wing that we thought we had filled.
Same with Bruce - recruited as a defender, plays possibly his best game as a forward. Are we actually now then still looking for a new CHB?

Feel a little like we're recruiting good talent, then making mistakes in assessing them or misunderstanding their best avenues to help the team.
 

Manimal_Dunstan

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I don't see a problem with it personally.

Richo said the other day they were hoping for Tom Lee to play that Josh Bruce current role but because he has had a few injury problems this year along with Maister also struggling they tried Bruce up forward to help Rhys and Nick, i'd assume long term we still see him as a key defender just currently with Fish back in some good touch it's letting Brucey release a bit up forward adding a bit more string to his bow.

On Savage i think he'll return to a wing position we're just letting him hit confidence and good form in his current position at HB after struggling a bit earlier in the year, we've also had injuries to Gilbo, Wright, Webster, Geary etc who usually play Shanes current role.
 
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Richo said the other day they were hoping for Tom Lee to play that Josh Bruce current role but because he has had a few injury problems this year along with Maister also struggling they tried Bruce up forward to help Rhys and Nick, i'd assume long term we still see him as a key defender just currently with Fish back in some good touch it's letting Brucey release a bit up forward adding a bit more string to his bow.

On Savage i think he'll return to a wing position we're just letting him hit confidence and good form in his current position at HB after struggling a bit earlier in the year, we've also had injuries to Gilbo, Wright, Webster, Geary etc who usually play Shanes current role.

So if Lee doesn't turn out (and it's starting to look less than 50/50), then we're actually looking for not just a Roo replacement, but also a Lee replacement. In the meantime Stanley keeps taking a hiding off people because he's not the messiah.

Richo said earlier this year Savage was recruited to play as a forward who would do a run in the middle. Sav himself said he wanted midfield time. That's my concern; I think the club wanted/expected him to be the Schneider-type replacement. Looks to me like they were off with that assessment.
 

Manimal_Dunstan

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So if Lee doesn't turn out (and it's starting to look less than 50/50), then we're actually looking for not just a Roo replacement, but also a Lee replacement. In the meantime Stanley keeps taking a hiding off people because he's not the messiah.

Richo said earlier this year Savage was recruited to play as a forward who would do a run in the middle. Sav himself said he wanted midfield time. That's my concern; I think the club wanted/expected him to be the Schneider-type replacement. Looks to me like they were off with that assessment.
We have a draft and trading period to come this year along with next year, what's to say we aren't going to go after more talls? the club are already aware of our KPP problems which is why over the off season they have time to fix that.

Again Savage was clearly lacking confidence in the early part of the season so they put him down back he showed form, hitting good form and getting confidence what is there to say that once Wright, Webster, etc come back he won't be put back in the midfield? football clubs try different things all the time and we are doing that now..

We are rebuilding everything isn't going be fixed in one season.
 
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Not expecting things fixed in one season. Actually been one of the people trying to promote patience on here, rather than the constant "accelerating the rebuild" stuff.

My worry is that we are supposed to be filling gaps bit by bit. If we keep recruiting players who are good enough but misread their development, we'll end up with 6 HBFs and no forward options, or similar situation.

Its generally accepted talls take longer, so unless we're pulling an unforeseen trade, we're anywhere from 2-8 years from seeing another KF helping Stanley. Half the reason I think Stanley is so maligned is that we need him to do too much. He ought to be considered our 2nd ruck who is handy forward. Not a cruicial forward, or THE key forward in the club. Not only that, but it's kids or skill-deficient mids/hard-nuts like Jones and Simpkin that we've been playing around him. Any tall would look a much better player if he had, for example Robbie Gray and Chad Wingard working off his missed marks/contests. Had Shane Savage been playing great footy as a forward these last 2-3 weeks, he'd have been at Stanley's feet a lot, helping Stanley. It's great for Savage that he is playing well at HB, but it means we now need to look at someone else giving us that livewire in the forward line.
 

holllywood

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Not expecting things fixed in one season. Actually been one of the people trying to promote patience on here, rather than the constant "accelerating the rebuild" stuff.

My worry is that we are supposed to be filling gaps bit by bit. If we keep recruiting players who are good enough but misread their development, we'll end up with 6 HBFs and no forward options, or similar situation.

Its generally accepted talls take longer, so unless we're pulling an unforeseen trade, we're anywhere from 2-8 years from seeing another KF helping Stanley. Half the reason I think Stanley is so maligned is that we need him to do too much. He ought to be considered our 2nd ruck who is handy forward. Not a cruicial forward, or THE key forward in the club. Not only that, but it's kids or skill-deficient mids/hard-nuts like Jones and Simpkin that we've been playing around him. Any tall would look a much better player if he had, for example Robbie Gray and Chad Wingard working off his missed marks/contests. Had Shane Savage been playing great footy as a forward these last 2-3 weeks, he'd have been at Stanley's feet a lot, helping Stanley. It's great for Savage that he is playing well at HB, but it means we now need to look at someone else giving us that livewire in the forward line.

Don't think this is too much of a concern ATM. As a rebuilding time last year I think we were more focused on bringing any talent to the club more so than filling specific roles (bar Delany). And as the year has gone on, Richo has been able to have a look at 40 odd players and making his judgement on them. He is keeping his options open and looking to see which players will do what he needs them to do, and where.

So when they put Savage down back and he started blossoming how can you say it's not good coaching? It was identified he could be a damaging rebounding defender because of his skill set and when he was put there he justified the faith put into him. Just because it was thought he would be one player but turns out to be another, it isn't a knock on our club misreading their development. The AFL is littered with players recruited for one position but striving in another. Ben Rutten was drafted as a forward as was Brian Lake, Cameron Ling to name a few.

A situation similar to Savage's is when MM (or SW, the defensive coach at the time:p) decided to play Leon Davis as a rebounding defender role in 2011 who was doing what Savage has done for the past few weeks, but for a whole year. This move was considered a master stroke by many as Davis' became one of the most dangerous rebounding defenders in the game and was rewarded with AA honors and if Savage's past few weeks are anything to go by, then the decision to move him down back by Richo was the right one.
 

cooperrules

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So if Lee doesn't turn out (and it's starting to look less than 50/50), then we're actually looking for not just a Roo replacement, but also a Lee replacement. In the meantime Stanley keeps taking a hiding off people because he's not the messiah.

Richo said earlier this year Savage was recruited to play as a forward who would do a run in the middle. Sav himself said he wanted midfield time. That's my concern; I think the club wanted/expected him to be the Schneider-type replacement. Looks to me like they were off with that assessment.
Either way hes exciting to watch.
 

felsty

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I think people on here are getting a little confused about Savage. Don't think he was ever a crumber or designated small forward ever, maybe early on, but not say the last 2-3 years.

He is your receiver, your go to guy outside of the contest and always will be. I would say wing is his preferred position and more a stay at home wing like a Gaff or Hill not a sometimes wing such as we have seen Billings do.

As people his skill set allows him to play back and challenge he opposition with his run and carry. I think once you see Wright, Webster back he will be moved onto the wings, which I don't think it's a bad thing.

How much of an in game strategy would that be, say Webster is getting tagged for his run and carry out the back, just switch the two and see what happens, or put Wright in the mids and let them both run.

A weapon.
 
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I guess its just emphasised a little when we keep hearing lack of outside speed/spread is our big problem, thats clearly why Savage would have been a good recruit.
Absolutely stoked he's playing well, and if he's going to be a HB then so be it. But it doesn't help the problem we have.

If we do it again this year, recruit someone for speed/spread and they end up playing somewhere else, then once again we'd still have that problem.
 
I guess its just emphasised a little when we keep hearing lack of outside speed/spread is our big problem, thats clearly why Savage would have been a good recruit.
Absolutely stoked he's playing well, and if he's going to be a HB then so be it. But it doesn't help the problem we have.

If we do it again this year, recruit someone for speed/spread and they end up playing somewhere else, then once again we'd still have that problem.

I can see you point, but I don't think the Lions were too worried when they originally drafted Leppitsch as a forward and ended up being an AA fullback.

Nothing ever works out as 'ideal' as we may want it, if we get talented first-22 players into our group, I'm all for it.

The list managers/recruiters do their job, then it's over to the coaches to do their jobs.
 

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Interesting reading.
I'm not concerned about players moving to roles other than what they may have been recruited for. Reality is at this stage of our revuild we have the flexibility to do this and get who we have playing to their strengths.

We still need players for roles I agree.
It would be a far bigger problem if we are still seeing this when we are contending for top 4 again.

It's pretty obvious we're recruiting skills with how many good picks we've done in the last couple of years.

IMO we'll start to turn it round quickly after 2015 season.

Keep the faith!
 
i am pleased Richo has a glimpse of what could be. The early season form was perhaps a false dawn, but this game, to start mixing metaphors was the swllow that did make a summers. From a supporter perspective, my comfort level with the team is sky high.
 
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