Lachie Henderson vs Jake Carlisle

[Jesse Custer]

That's pretty WOW for me JC and confirms to me what a bad wrap Hendo gets on BF. At present, Hurley and Pears would be the only of those talls I'd want on my list before Hendo, and I reckon he'll overtake Pears by careers end. I'd take Crameri outright too atm, but wouldn't really classify him as a tall and Hendo as a versatile KPP is far more what the Blues need.

Yeah, i thought i went a little too far. I guess Crameri sort of plays as a tall so thats why i included him in the list. I think Pears is a little underrated on this forum as well. I've seen Henderson do his job numerous times, and thats all you can ask for. The kid needs an extended run in the team and we'll see his full potential. Which i think he has plenty.

 

[Monkey King]

I'm rating him well ahead of Henderson at the same age and years in the league. Comparing them now is comparing apples with oranges.

Well that's pretty silly then isn't it. Pretty sure the OP was talking about which player was better, not who was better at the same age. Just to let you know at this point, that I'm not going to reply to your other points addressing this same-age factor, because while I agree it's an important consideration, you give it far more weight, almost measurable, than I do.

Henderson was nowhere near Kennedy at 22 when he was 20 - He turned 20 in his second year in Brisbane in 2009, while Kennedy turned 22 in the 2009 season, where he kicked 31 goals in 16 games.

Eh? LOL this is a bit weird. Henderson didn't spend a single day on Brisbane's list as a 20yo. He was knee deep in Carlton's preseason when he turned 20yo in December 2009 and he kicked 25 goals in 19 games, everyone of them as a 20yo ... so I'm scratching my head at this point. Kennedy got nowhere near this level of performance until he was 21-22yo, so if you're disagreeing that Henderson has outperformed JK at the Blues, you better come up with some serious reasoning.

Maybe they were good, but he was playing as a key forward for a side with a very, very good midfield - One might expect him to kick a few goals just by being there.

This is just another talk down to explain away Hendo's actual results. Carlton's midfield last year was not the midfield of this year. Murphy was on one leg, Scotland nowhere near his current form, Robinson not playing mid, Gibbs a HBF; Judd was carrying the midfield most of the year. Essentially it was a middle of the road team, with a good midfield and a forward line under significant reconstruction. In the kid's first year he did terrifically well under the circumstances, struggling a bit early but coming back strong at seasons end; no point insinuating he was gifted his goals.

And you've compared him to Setanta who played FF. What I am looking at is a 20yo CHF. Not a 27yo FF. Hendo took nearly twice as many contested marks as Carlos. Can I ask, did Jack Anthony play CHF and did you not rate him either after snagging his 50 goals? Surely the Anthony going backwards point can be applied to both players equally.

I looked at those exact stats. His goal numbers changed in 2010 because he played forward, but his possession, mark and tackle averages (up 25%) remained virtually identical in his second, third and fourth years.

How meh is this. You're running off averages, as though increasing games from 7 to 19 is no measure of improvement. You're dismissing his 25 goals outright because he played forward, while claiming a mark and kick earned forward is the same as one earned in defense. Last year Hendo took 20 contested marks for the Blues (similar to Hurley this year), second highest on the team. His previous season best was 3. Granted he should take more up forward, but the accounting for positional difference seems to be a one-way street with you. His contested possession average doubled from his first season to his first year at Carlton.

After Hendo arrived at the Blues, I got hold of a few of his games at Brisbane. I don't care how many kicks he got, he has undoubtedly improved as a player in his game time with the Blues. That he's standing players like Roo and Buddy and doing quite well is testament to that.

You seem to disagree that this is a valid opinion for me to hold, based on the facts available. I contend that it is a perfectly valid opinion, shared by others who have voted in this poll.

You can hold that opinion if you like. I disagree with it, but more so your reasoning ie. Henderson hasn't been any good, lacks nous, is a workhorse at best and has not improved in any of his seasons. That's pretty much all bullshit.

As to the 3 other neutral voters agreeing with you rolleyes BF polls had McLean as the best young midfielder a few years ago, so coupled with the general lack of rating anything Carlton, it's certainly no validation of anything.

 

[Monkey King]

Yeah, i thought i went a little too far. I guess Crameri sort of plays as a tall so thats why i included him in the list. I think Pears is a little underrated on this forum as well. I've seen Henderson do his job numerous times, and thats all you can ask for. The kid needs an extended run in the team and we'll see his full potential. Which i think he has plenty.

I thought so too. I think with Pears, BF tends to have a pretty short memory and disregards injury, but a fully fit Pears looked the goods to me. Crameri's been a revelation this year, but I wouldn't be throwing him down back to take on Buddy for example, and Carlton have Walker as their mid/tall forward, who's been pretty handy; so tall vs tall, I'd have to go with Hendo.

I reckoned Hendo was starting to come on pretty well towards the end of last season and looked a lot more comfortable in his forward role and swinging back. Murphy showed last season to this season the type of impact hip surgery in December can have; on a younger player, I imagine it could potentially be even greater. So I'm not just looking at him getting an extended run, but getting his body right.

 

[Ambrosia]

At the moment these players aren't comparable as I think Henson will end up a defender because his hands just aren't good enough to be a forward and carlisle is a natural forward filling a hole in defense.

For the record Hooker > Henderson

 

[Rocky_Star_Pro]

Carlisle for me, I still think Henderson has a future in defence, despite being recruited as a forward. Completely beat Nick Riewoldt last week

 

[Silvagnis]

I'll give him Riewoldt, but Franklin murdered him iirc. Carlisle for me purely because of bias and the fact that I don't rate Hendo, and never have

What would they have done to Carlisle who was smashed by an underdone Kreuzer?

Carlisle doesn't have Henderson's speed, agility and mobility.

I guess you shouldn't listen to the supporters who rate Hooker and Ryder as great talls.

 

[Ambrosia]

I guess you shouldn't listen to the supporters who rate Hooker and Ryder as great talls.

Why is hooker so underated on bigfooty he was having a stellar year before injury. He was destroying his opponent. The most anyone had kicked on him was 5

 

[Hipster Doofus]

This thread just became a little to serious

 

[eth-dog]

What would they have done to Carlisle who was smashed by an underdone Kreuzer?

Carlisle doesn't have Henderson's speed, agility and mobility.

I guess you shouldn't listen to the supporters who rate Hooker and Ryder as great talls.

He was really smashed huh? So two goals in a 74 point win is asmashing? Yep, Kruezer smashed Carlisle apparently despite only getting 15 touches and 2 goals. Apparently that's a smashing now.

Funny troll is funny

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

What would they have done to Carlisle who was smashed by an underdone Kreuzer?

Carlisle doesn't have Henderson's speed, agility and mobility.

I guess you shouldn't listen to the supporters who rate Hooker and Ryder as great talls.

Paddy ryder is better than any tall u have including kruezer who is also very overated... but ill give him time to become good showed some good signs but still

 

[juzz_e]

Henderson, and it isn't even close.

 

[juzz_e]

Paddy ryder is better than any tall u have including kruezer who is also very overated... but ill give him time to become good showed some good signs but still

Wow, I mean.. um.. just.. wow.

 

[eth-dog]

Henderson, and it isn't even close.

Why is Carlisle winning then?

 

[Sin City]

Why is Carlisle winning then?

Because it's BigFooty.

Carlisle has shown that he has promise and could be a good player, Henderson has shown better form so far.

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

Wow, I mean.. um.. just.. wow.

Is that all you have to say?
or is it because you know you dont have an argument

 

[Rocky_Star_Pro]

Henderson, and it isn't even close.

Yeah nah Carlisle is ahead now and will become the better player in the future

 

[Squida25]

Sooo....?

 

[Weiterbot23]

To be honest I don't think Hendo played that well today, he was just taking uncontested marks of Essedons Woeful disposal and game plan.

 

[Squida25]

To be honest I don't think Hendo played that well today, he was just taking uncontested marks of Essedons Woeful disposal and game plan.

Agreed, was Carlisle subbed off at quarter time ?

 

[Ambrosia]

Don't understand the love for Henderson from all the Carlton supporters was moved off Hurley very early on and then luckily for him our second tall forward was moved into the backline to cover for injury.

 

[Squida25]

Don't understand the love for Carlisle from all the Essendon supporters kicked a goal early on and then unluckily for him he went MIA.

 

[GordonBlue]

Don't understand the love for Carlisle from all the Essendon supporters kicked a goal early on and then unluckily for him he went MIA.

No dude... he didn't go MIA... he was destroyed by the greatest player to ever play the game... the one and only Brett Thornton!!!

BTW Hendo did play on Hurley after quarter time. Jamo and Hendo alternated. Hurley took one mark against Hendo and Hendo won two contests against Hurley in the first quarter.

The only reason why it seemed Jamo was on him, is because when Pears went down, Carlisle had to go defence/defensive which meant we only had to concentrate on Hurley for a big forward.

 

[Ambrosia]

Um David Myers was on Thornton for pretty much the whole game. Pears/Carlile were on the Irish bloke try watching the game with two eyes.

Henderson spent most the second and third quarter on Ryder/hille and did a good job. Everyone saw the switch the radio commentators even discussed the matchup change for a few minutes.

 

[entourage]

Hendo for mine

 

[Kong]

No dude... he didn't go MIA... he was destroyed by the greatest player to ever play the game... the one and only Brett Thornton!!!

Myers was on Thornton.

Carlisle was good up forward, then good down back.*

BTW Hendo did play on Hurley after quarter time. Jamo and Hendo alternated. Hurley took one mark against Hendo and Hendo won two contests against Hurley in the first quarter.

The only reason why it seemed Jamo was on him, is because when Pears went down, Carlisle had to go defence/defensive which meant we only had to concentrate on Hurley for a big forward.

For starters Hurley beat Henderson in 4 contests in the 1st quarter, and Henderson beat Hurley (with a spoil) in 1.

Then when our supply turned to s**t, and Jamison was predominantly on Hurley, he was quiet.

Hurley was barely sighted after quarter time, likewise 90% of our side, but Hurley won what small time he had on Henderson. There's no two ways about it.