Leppa's third year.

[Ironmonger]

Thanks for the response, go you pups.

The relevance of Dickson for us is more that he's having an impact on the scoreboard without being a typical 6'4" key forward or without playing at the feet of one. We might not have a direct equivalent but we also have hard-working players with goal sense from whom we could get better output if other things were going right. 'Average' was probably a harsh word to use, on my part.

St Kilda aren't a bad comparison, but it rather seems like a lot of things are going right for them. They've had a charmed run with injury for the last couple of months and are actually fielding quite a mature team compared to either the Dogs or the Lions.

 

[go you pups]

Thanks for the response, go you pups.

The relevance of Dickson for us is more that he's having an impact on the scoreboard without being a typical 6'4" key forward or without playing at the feet of one. We might not have a direct equivalent but we also have hard-working players with goal sense from whom we could get better output if other things were going right. 'Average' was probably a harsh word to use, on my part.

St Kilda aren't a bad comparison, but it rather seems like a lot of things are going right for them. They've had a charmed run with injury for the last couple of months and are actually fielding quite a mature team compared to either the Dogs or the Lions.

No worries, Dickson's only getting noticed now due to his goal kicking feats this year, but we (Dogs fans) knew he had it in him from what he's done in the past.

We could be compared to St Kilda ourselves but I feel their KPP stocks are a bit better and their older players are better than ours so they still have to lose that lot before they truly bottom out, while our youngsters have shown more and we have a couple more of them than St Kilda, our list last year was probably a lot like St KIlda's this year Griffen and Cooney (2015 Armitage and Steven albeit a little younger and have performed much better), Gia (Schneider), Williams (Gilbert both injury prone talls), Jones (Bruce just Bruce is 40x better).

Really though, GWS is probably our closet comparison with both clubs having emerging players, just they have 1 or 2 better taller attacking players such as Cameron and McCarthy and we only have Stringer, while we have Boyd now who could be compared to Patton perhaps (Boyds 2 years younger, Patton's coming off the knee regressing him a little).

GWS let themselves down recruiting duds like Plowman, O'Rourke, Buntine etc in the top 5 while we got much better players such as Dahlhaus and Johannisen off the rookie list and Lukas Webb as a 2nd rounder (he's a young medium-sized defender/rebounder who could be compared to Plowman and Buntine). I reckon if we snare another key forward and key defender then we'll be on equal footing with them just about, except we're the moneyball version obviously with minimal 1st rounders and making the most of our 2nd rounders onwards.

 

[lukiuslion]

I am not enjoying the 'negative' mind set we are going into games with. I can't stand this whole "if we can't play, no one can" attitude we are rolling with, I am sick of watching us blanket the defensive half of the ground and par take in the 'worst' game of the weekend each week. It's not something I am very proud of ATM Then this possession chip kick game, is not to my liking either. Sure, maybe after several years of development it might work, but I want that run and carry team back. ATM I feel Leppa is persisting with a game style that is totally inapplicable to our unit and it is frustrating.

 

[mpal6]

I am not enjoying the 'negative' mind set we are going into games with. I can't stand this whole "if we can't play, no one can" attitude we are rolling with, I am sick of watching us blanket the defensive half of the ground and par take in the 'worst' game of the weekend each week. It's not something I am very proud of ATM Then this possession chip kick game, is not to my liking either. Sure, maybe after several years of development it might work, but I want that run and carry team back. ATM I feel Leppa is persisting with a game style that is totally inapplicable to our unit and it is frustrating.

Need to hang in with Leppa on this one. I have been reading Richmond forum (yeah lucky me) and there was one thread of interest - Dimma, I was wrong or something. Hardwick put them through this chip kick, possession style all of last year and got blasted by the supporters for how crappy it looked on field.

All I can hope for here, Leppa is putting our team through the phases on similar tactic and trying out some game plan scenarios since our season is a write off. We have come this far, just have to ride out this year and see how we build it next year onwards. Granted we won't scale the same height as Tigers next season (they have been knocking finals door step for 2 years now - might go deeper this time), but it'll give us a chance to see how Leppa's plan eventuates.

 

[lukiuslion]

Need to hang in with Leppa on this one. I have been reading Richmond forum (yeah lucky me) and there was one thread of interest - Dimma, I was wrong or something. Hardwick put them through this chip kick, possession style all of last year and got blasted by the supporters for how crappy it looked on field.

All I can hope for here, Leppa is putting our team through the phases on similar tactic and trying out some game plan scenarios since our season is a write off. We have come this far, just have to ride out this year and see how we build it next year onwards. Granted we won't scale the same height as Tigers next season (they have been knocking finals door step for 2 years now - might go deeper this time), but it'll give us a chance to see how Leppa's plan eventuates.

Yeah but it's more about he blanket approach tot he ground. I just think it's defeatist. I always took pride in the way we attacked the game, even last year. It doesn't exist anymore.

 

[knaf]

It's hard to get a handle of Leppa's performance because on injuries. I have to say I have been unconsciously casting my eye around for the emergency exit from Leppa's bandwagon particularly after the North and Melbourne games.

I thought the effort was acceptable against Geelong. With out checking, I think we won or were equal for contested possessions and clearances. Lack of structure and disposal effecency are the real problems.

On structure I thought it was illustrative to watch Collingwood over the weekend. Without experienced key forwards their game fell apart and it look like the players were lacking effort and confidence. They looked to be chipping around a lot. I can't find the data on their disposal efficency, but I guess you can make an argument that not having not having a forward target effects the disposal efficiency of other clubs. Maybe a key forward would improve disposal efficiency and make us look more intentional in our play.

A lot of comments about the development of players particularly Rich and Redden. I remember posting somewhere that I thought Rich was playing his best football for the club earlier in the year. I believe he is carrying an injury so current poor form can't be attributed to the coach. Except to say that he needs to be talking to the player and medical staff about whether or not Rich should be playing. Redden is more of a problem. I watched him closely against Geelong. Hard to say watching on TV, but he looked to be cruising and content to put in another good average performance. Leppa's needs to address this attitude.

Overall though my position is that we need to stay rational, try to get the list health over the summer and see if we can be more competitive with something like a full team on the field.

 

[lionbear]

This season has been so unmatched in terms of injuries that its hard to get any reading on performance.

I went on Saturday, and we played ok, but our forward line is crippled and how many times did we get to 80 or 70 meters from goal, then freeze like a Deer in the headlights because we had nowhere to go.

Adcock should not be required to kick 4 of 8 goals for us.

Also I would have to think we have set a record for a number of times the sub has been activated because of injury, rather than because it was our call.

This is our lowest point, and personally I think the board need to decide on Leppa post 2016 now, why? because I want him to coach the team in the best interests of long term success, not to wonder if he is getting a fourth year or not. Even if its only 12 months, next year needs to be about aggressive coaching and growth, not about what do I need to be the coach post 2016.

And a clause needs to be put in that he is automatically sacked if any top 10 draft picks are traded away.

 

[POBT]

There were a few people saying last year "why would we adopt Richmond's gameplan FFS!!!" I didn't think we adopted the Tigers' gameplan then and I don't think we have done so now. It was a bit of a lazy comparison, to be honest. However, there is an approach of teaching a side an elementary, sustainable style of play (ie walk before you run) that might be shared between the two clubs. Given we have two coaches who were central to that Richmond "learning phase", we might take some heart out of where Richmond has ended up. Perhaps a long bow.

FWIW though, I'm not sure Richmond are quite the side the latest press reports are making them out to be. IMO their list is still weaker than the very best sides. I think the media tends to overrate or underrate the Tigers based on latest performance. I see them as a side which might make a prelim final if absolutely everything went to plan (like North last year) but more likely getting done in the first couple of weeks of finals.

 

[James North]

I went on Saturday, and we played ok, but our forward line is crippled and how many times did we get to 80 or 70 meters from goal, then freeze like a Deer in the headlights because we had nowhere to go.

This is exactly how I see things too, lionbear. We're actually doing pretty well in terms of getting the ball in the middle of the ground - we're just not confident going forward.

I really think a KPF will have a pretty big impact on us - even if that player doesn't kick a heap of goals.

 

[jackess]

There were a few people saying last year "why would we adopt Richmond's gameplan FFS!!!" I didn't think we adopted the Tigers' gameplan then and I don't think we have done so now. It was a bit of a lazy comparison, to be honest. However, there is an approach of teaching a side an elementary, sustainable style of play (ie walk before you run) that might be shared between the two clubs. Given we have two coaches who were central to that Richmond "learning phase", we might take some heart out of where Richmond has ended up. Perhaps a long bow.

FWIW though, I'm not sure Richmond are quite the side the latest press reports are making them out to be. IMO their list is still weaker than the very best sides. I think the media tends to overrate or underrate the Tigers based on latest performance. I see them as a side which might make a prelim final if absolutely everything went to plan (like North last year) but more likely getting done in the first couple of weeks of finals.

Their 'bottom six' are performing well ATM but I'm not sure if they'll stand up in finals. Not quite the depth of the top teams.

 

[lukiuslion]

sooo... with increasing talk of another mass exodus looming at the end of the year (I still have my doubts TBH) but there is talk none the less.

Does that put even more pressure on Leppa?

The only category he has a tick in so far was the fact 19 players recommitted to the club last year, thus giving the impression most are 'happy' and this was a large part of what he was tasked with doing - so if we lose a bunch of players, and players seek to break their contracts etc - at seasons end, surely that, amongst everything else, dramatically increases the chances of the blowtorch being swung his way?.

 

[lionbear]

sooo... with increasing talk of another mass exodus looming at the end of the year (I still have my doubts TBH) but there is talk none the less.

Does that put even more pressure on Leppa?

The only category he has a tick in so far was the fact 19 players recommitted to the club last year, thus giving the impression most are 'happy' and this was a large part of what he was tasked with doing - so if we lose a bunch of players, and players seek to break their contracts etc - at seasons end, surely that, amongst everything else, dramatically increases the chances of the blowtorch being swung his way?.

Depends, are they walking because they don't like Leppa, or are they working because the Gabba is rock hard, the training facilities are sub standard, and they are sick of not being in the limelight?

If its the Latter, then we can bring whoever we want in its not going to make a difference, I think the pressure is on the club to get these facilities and ground up to standard.

 

[lukiuslion]

Depends, are they walking because they don't like Leppa, or are they working because the Gabba is rock hard, the training facilities are sub standard, and they are sick of not being in the limelight?

If its the Latter, then we can bring whoever we want in its not going to make a difference, I think the pressure is on the club to get these facilities and ground up to standard.

Yeah, no one said they didn't like Voss from memory but he was still marked on this issue. He knew what the task was when he took over, that's why further currency was given to his ability to make a better 'culture'. This was a focus so I think it needs to be marked accordingly. Lots of the other areas in which it can't be debated we have gone backwards in, have been excused because he was fixing up the culture and making our club attractive to be at again.

I don't think any of those things matter if we are winning some games and making quantifiable progress, which your post didn't mention.

I am not advocating his demise here, but surely given that was his biggest task when we took over, and so much focus has gone onto that, that if a mass exodus occurs it's going to make his position damn near untenable.

 

[Bucking Beads]

If the rumours are true about another exodus we may as well fold. Just no point anymore.

 

[Nunez]

What exodus rumours? Have I missed something?

 

[luthor]

What exodus rumours? Have I missed something?

I've seen some unsubstantiated suggestions about Stef Martin on this board. That's all i can think of, off the cuff,

How this (or anything else) has become "exodus rumours" is beyond me.

Often these things just take on a life of their own.

 

[SizeMatters]

There were a few people saying last year "why would we adopt Richmond's gameplan FFS!!!" I didn't think we adopted the Tigers' gameplan then and I don't think we have done so now. It was a bit of a lazy comparison, to be honest. However, there is an approach of teaching a side an elementary, sustainable style of play (ie walk before you run) that might be shared between the two clubs. Given we have two coaches who were central to that Richmond "learning phase", we might take some heart out of where Richmond has ended up. Perhaps a long bow.

FWIW though, I'm not sure Richmond are quite the side the latest press reports are making them out to be. IMO their list is still weaker than the very best sides. I think the media tends to overrate or underrate the Tigers based on latest performance. I see them as a side which might make a prelim final if absolutely everything went to plan (like North last year) but more likely getting done in the first couple of weeks of finals.

I hope that post was sarcastic. We definitely are playing a lot of Richmond tactics with a bit of Voss chucked in. I've watched Tigers a fair bit this season and they IMO have a top 4 list. Maybe another KPF (Vickery creates an honest contest) and inside midfielder wouldn't go astray but there are no glaring holes in their list compared to Fremantle (KPF and KPD) or Sydney (Rucks, KPD) for instance. They have under performed with the quality on their list for years now and I believe it is their style of play. I have noted that this season they are playing a bit more attacking to previous years and it looks good.

Leppa has definitely taken a lot of elements out of Tigers game.

 

[lukiuslion]

I hope that post was sarcastic. We definitely are playing a lot of Richmond tactics with a bit of Voss chucked in. I've watched Tigers a fair bit this season and they IMO have a top 4 list. Maybe another KPF (Vickery creates an honest contest) and inside midfielder wouldn't go astray but there are no glaring holes in their list compared to Fremantle (KPF and KPD) or Sydney (Rucks, KPD) for instance. They have under performed with the quality on their list for years now and I believe it is their style of play. I have noted that this season they are playing a bit more attacking to previous years and it looks good.

Leppa has definitely taken a lot of elements out of Tigers game.

Oh yes he has.

 

[lukiuslion]

I've seen some unsubstantiated suggestions about Stef Martin on this board. That's all i can think of, off the cuff,

How this (or anything else) has become "exodus rumours" is beyond me.

Often these things just take on a life of their own.

Yeah I personally think they are unsubstantiated, but things keep getting mentioned around the place.

 

[Bucking Beads]

If Leppa has indeed gone with the Tigers game plan I think we will need to be patient. Hardwick has been at the Tigers for a fair while now and only this year they have found themselves in contention for a top 4 berth.

 

[James North]

Couldn't you say going around the boundary is the Malthouse Collingwood thing?

Is it really that clear cut?

 

[Bucking Beads]

I think our style of play is a mixture of a few. We try and hold on to possession and when we are playing well we genuinely are going through the corridor. I find that when we aren't working as hard as we can/should we end up skirting the boundary line a lot.

 

[jackess]

Gameplan?

 

[blynd_freddie]

This is exactly how I see things too, lionbear. We're actually doing pretty well in terms of getting the ball in the middle of the ground - we're just not confident going forward.

I really think a KPF will have a pretty big impact on us - even if that player doesn't kick a heap of goals.

Not sure about that,in Brownys last five years he played 72 games - we only managed to win 29 [40.3% ]

 

[James North]

Not sure about that,in Brownys last five years he played 72 games - we only managed to win 29 [40.3% ]

Ok - one that can run?