Leppa's third year.

[lukiuslion]

I just don't understand how every facet of our team has gone backwards... The only player that has continued on from last season is Stefan Martin...now that's saying something!

I honestly think it's essentially the game plan. Just no confidence they can execute.

 

[carnthemlions]

The level of discussion, if possible, has lowered a notch. Sigh.

 

[Hysteria25]

Lol @ people blaming injuries. Did you see the **** that we delivered against Melbourne a few weeks back?

 

[BrizzyBandit]

Leppa has done absolutely nothing to suggest that he is up to it. We do not have a squad that should be winning the spoon but he has lead us to that. He has had more resources than Voss was ever given but has done nothing with them. Yes we have had injuries and we were not fit enough but you could rightly suggest that he was the one who was supposed to be overseeing it.

Leppa is good in front of the media but can anyone name one other positive he has bought to the team? Personally I think we have gone backwards and I cannot see any reason why you would extend his contract.

Hey I love Voss.... But under his watch we got Fev which set us back massively then we lost a whole generation of players which damaged our culture which tumbled us down the ladder... Not Leppa!

I'm not marking Leppa's success on a win loss ratio just yet.

Under Leppa we have recruited Mitch Robinson, Dayne Beams, Allen Christensen who wouldn't of come if we had no leadership or stability. He has also blooded ALL of our new recruits with LTaylor winning the Rising star award playing a role Leppa gave him.

He made Rockcliff captain.
And from all accounts is apart of getting Craig Lambert back to the Den.


He is rebuilding from scratch this year with players that are either new to the club or new to AFL... And has had 0 continuity due to massive injury tolls. One of the worst in AFL history.

Yet you write him off Quigley?? Surprised to hear this coming from you.

 

[Bucking Beads]

To be fair I am sure Quigley had reservations about the appointment of Leppa right from the start. Leppa has left a lot of questions unanswered after this season.

 

[lukiuslion]

The level of discussion, if possible, has lowered a notch. Sigh.

Arr here we go again. Mate, not everyone has to absolutely love leppa and excuse every element of everything. Lol

Seriously either offer a rebuttal or don't post. You are not the 'all seeing eye" you don't know if we are on the right path or not.

I am not one, but posters are allowed to be totally dissatisfied with our coach if they want.

And whilst we are at it - please tell us one thing that has improved under Leppa? And I'm looking for a positive here not an excuse?

I'm not asking that to destroy leppa, I'm asking you to highlight the fact that without excuses, there is a level of validity to those who are a bit disenchanted with the coach so far.

 

[Big Lion]

Bomber Thompson if Leppa fails next year? Or is he waiting for Hird to be sacked?

 

[MacMum]

Hopefully he is waiting for Hird to be sacked.

 

[carnthemlions]

Arr here we go again. Mate, not everyone has to absolutely love leppa and excuse every element of everything. Lol

Seriously either offer a rebuttal or don't post. You are not the 'all seeing eye" you don't know if we are on the right path or not.

I am not one, but posters are allowed to be totally dissatisfied with our coach if they want.

And whilst we are at it - please tell us one thing that has improved under Leppa? And I'm looking for a positive here not an excuse?

I'm not asking that to destroy leppa, I'm asking you to highlight the fact that without excuses, there is a level of validity to those who are a bit disenchanted with the coach so far.

That wasn't directed at you, by the way. Did you see the last couple of pages?
And yet, you somehow feel targeted. lol.

 

[WA Lion]

Some of the rubbish posted on here is fascinating.

During the week it is all about making sure we have access to a good enough draft pick to get one of Weitering or Schache i.e. not winning too many games.
Then after a loss on the weekend the same people come out and say that because we have lost Leppa isn't up to it......

Guess what people - you can't have both.

We can't come out and display scintillating attacking and dynamic defence so that the coaching is unquestionable, and then lose....... Doesn't work like that.

At the minute I am undecided about Leppa, as I don't think he can be fairly judged on this year, but people need to wake up and realise that we can't have the best of both worlds. You either want a good draft pick, in which case don't whinge each time we lose, or you want us to win, in which case don't whinge when we miss out on Schache and Weitering.

 

[WA Lion]

Further to last post - what you are looking for is signs of improvement overall, and yesterday was the first game for a few weeks where there was genuine evidence of improvement. We still made some utterly stupid mistakes, but we attacked more, and scored 100 points and the youngsters continued to show something

 

[Skoob]

Some of the rubbish posted on here is fascinating.

During the week it is all about making sure we have access to a good enough draft pick to get one of Weitering or Schache i.e. not winning too many games.
Then after a loss on the weekend the same people come out and say that because we have lost Leppa isn't up to it......

Guess what people - you can't have both.

We can't come out and display scintillating attacking and dynamic defence so that the coaching is unquestionable, and then lose....... Doesn't work like that.

At the minute I am undecided about Leppa, as I don't think he can be fairly judged on this year, but people need to wake up and realise that we can't have the best of both worlds. You either want a good draft pick, in which case don't whinge like a little girl each time we lose, or you want us to win, in which case don't whinge when we miss out on Schache and Weitering.

Well said, although a little sexist toward the end (little boys cry too, and that's okay).

 

[WA Lion]

Well said, although a little sexist toward the end (little boys cry too, and that's okay).

fair point! My 2 year old son is currently balling his eyes out so very true!

 

[jackess]

Some of the rubbish posted on here is fascinating.

During the week it is all about making sure we have access to a good enough draft pick to get one of Weitering or Schache i.e. not winning too many games.
Then after a loss on the weekend the same people come out and say that because we have lost Leppa isn't up to it......

Guess what people - you can't have both.

We can't come out and display scintillating attacking and dynamic defence so that the coaching is unquestionable, and then lose....... Doesn't work like that.

At the minute I am undecided about Leppa, as I don't think he can be fairly judged on this year, but people need to wake up and realise that we can't have the best of both worlds. You either want a good draft pick, in which case don't whinge like a little girl each time we lose, or you want us to win, in which case don't whinge when we miss out on Schache and Weitering.

Who wanted us to lose yesterday and the got annoyed when we did?

 

[James North]

That wasn't directed at you, by the way. Did you see the last couple of pages?
And yet, you somehow feel targeted. lol.

There's a theme.

I knew you would be hating 15 pages of convo on a thread I started, was waiting for you to come in and throw the furniture around .. LOL!

I didn't know you started this thread. I was having a discussion with jackess.

Arr here we go again. Mate, not everyone has to absolutely love leppa and excuse every element of everything. Lol

If you believe your own logic, and you seem to, not everyone has to love the criticising him either in this discussion that you've started.

You claim to have started this thread to sit on the fence, but you have been thinly veiled in your critique of him - and that's ok. We've had a bad year.

In terms of any rebuttal to that position, I think we played very well against Adelaide, Freo, Swans and then had a bit of a bad run. I thought last night was great, too.

Frustrating - but the GC Suns were referred to earlier in this thread (my discussion with jackess) about how well they did against WCE. We fell 14 points short of them and really should've won last night.

The bad run we had recently is part of the inexperience of our group and a combination the lack of great players that we have, and the lack of good players we do have being available for extended runs at a time. Overrating our list is a theme on BigFooty and certainly around our board for the last handful of years. That's a complicated solution - recruiting, retention, development etc.

I can't definitively say that Leppa is an amazing coach because I think his hands have been tied and I think he started with a pretty difficult list. It's important to note that the coaching staff is pretty much the same as it was under Voss as well.

What I do believe, is that no other coach could've done a whole lot better with the list, facilities and club structure we have at the moment.

 

[Ironmonger]

Hey I love Voss.... But under his watch we got Fev which set us back massively then we lost a whole generation of players which damaged our culture which tumbled us down the ladder... Not Leppa!

I'm not marking Leppa's success on a win loss ratio just yet.

Under Leppa we have recruited Mitch Robinson, Dayne Beams, Allen Christensen who wouldn't of come if we had no leadership or stability. He has also blooded ALL of our new recruits with LTaylor winning the Rising star award playing a role Leppa gave him.

He made Rockcliff captain.
And from all accounts is apart of getting Craig Lambert back to the Den.


He is rebuilding from scratch this year with players that are either new to the club or new to AFL... And has had 0 continuity due to massive injury tolls. One of the worst in AFL history.

Yet you write him off Quigley?? Surprised to hear this coming from you.

This is exactly the way in which we should be marking Leppitsch; summing up all his successes and seeing what they amount to.

Unfortunately BB I don't look at that list and come to the same conclusion you do. I think it's quite thin for two years. The recruitment of those three players is probably the biggest positive.

Last year it looked like Leppa's biggest strength was his ability to bring in very raw players and get them to immediately make an impact. That's continued a little with Andrews' performances, but it's not quite clear yet that he can help young players take the next step after that.

So like Quigley I'm battling to come up with too many examples of real progress. There are many things ringing alarm bells for me, but the biggest is that watching us yesterday we looked exactly as confused and uncertain as we did early last year. Confusion and uncertainty seem to be constant facts of life under Leppitsch.

 

[lukiuslion]

That wasn't directed at you, by the way. Did you see the last couple of pages?
And yet, you somehow feel targeted. lol.

I said "I am not one" but people are allowed to not be happy with Leppa. So actually I was defending who ever it is you were sighing at. You also were policing my posts on other threads this morning too.

All I am saying is there are a lot of posters who seem obsessed with acting as if they are the all seeing eye who see the bigger picture at all times and that there positive cool head will prevail, when in fact, they are non the wiser as to whether or not we are going to improve if without injures we would be so much better off .

I don't think posting has been bad on this thread or on others of late, I think quality of BF is the best it's been in years.. if people want to be measured and assured that wooden spoon is where we are supposed to be at, that's fine, if other want to let their frustration out and call for leppas head and throw the baby out with the bath water - that's also fine. There is a lot of validity to the fact we are not improving at all, just as there is to the fact injuries and bad luck are to blame.

We are wooden spooners, and none of us know whether or not leppa will be successful, but you are the only poster of late, getting around seemingly belittling the opinion of others as low IQ or how ever you put it, because they arnt happy with the direction we are going like you or would prefer us to be further along than we are. That's all.

I like the input of yourself and Mr North, equally as I do bucking beads and sizematters - because I agree with both opinions in different ways, just don't get why you need to chime in with a broad sweeping post denouncing those frustrated after a game.

 

[lukiuslion]

There's a theme.



I didn't know you started this thread. I was having a discussion with jackess.



If you believe your own logic, and you seem to, not everyone has to love the criticising him either in this discussion that you've started.

You claim to have started this thread to sit on the fence, but you have been thinly veiled in your critique of him - and that's ok. We've had a bad year.

In terms of any rebuttal to that position, I think we played very well against Adelaide, Freo, Swans and then had a bit of a bad run. I thought last night was great, too.

Frustrating - but the GC Suns were referred to earlier in this thread (my discussion with jackess) about how well they did against WCE. We fell 14 points short of them and really should've won last night.

The bad run we had recently is part of the inexperience of our group and a combination the lack of great players that we have, and the lack of good players we do have being available for extended runs at a time. Overrating our list is a theme on BigFooty and certainly around our board for the last handful of years. That's a complicated solution - recruiting, retention, development etc.

I can't definitively say that Leppa is an amazing coach because I think his hands have been tied and I think he started with a pretty difficult list. It's important to note that the coaching staff is pretty much the same as it was under Voss as well.

What I do believe, is that no other coach could've done a whole lot better with the list, facilities and club structure we have at the moment.

The top comment about throwing furniture was a joke, you know those ones you love to do about other posters - constantly, and expect them to see the funny side and to not be so touchy. I've copped hundreds of them over the journey. Thought you would have a laugh.

Yeah I agree with everything you have said about leppa above.

and Yes - both the critique and supportive posts are valid - problem I see is - those not wanting to hear a critique in any way, seem to sit back and complain about the IQ of the posters with the frustrated view and often snipe - and I don't see that coming from the other side of the argument - I see posters willing to engage.

 

[Old Den]

Some of the rubbish posted on here is fascinating.

During the week it is all about making sure we have access to a good enough draft pick to get one of Weitering or Schache i.e. not winning too many games.
Then after a loss on the weekend the same people come out and say that because we have lost Leppa isn't up to it......

Guess what people - you can't have both.

We can't come out and display scintillating attacking and dynamic defence so that the coaching is unquestionable, and then lose....... Doesn't work like that.

At the minute I am undecided about Leppa, as I don't think he can be fairly judged on this year, but people need to wake up and realise that we can't have the best of both worlds. You either want a good draft pick, in which case don't whinge like a little girl each time we lose, or you want us to win, in which case don't whinge when we miss out on Schache and Weitering.

And getting Schache with picks 1 or 2 which now looks very likely will not in itself be enough for rapid improvement from the start of next season...it depends heavily on getting hold of Dixon this summer.

I think our tall forward structure this year has been the worst that I have seen in an AFL side...we have also been hurt by Close and Freeman missing out on this year's development but the non-replacement of Clark,for whatever reasons, with a quality developed player over the past 3 seasons,has hurt us and if we add missing out on Dixon to missing out on Tippett (TWICE) then expect the forward target situation to be dicey and,most likely,be heavily dependent on young,inexperienced talls next year.

If things go well in 2016,including the injury toll,talk about Leppa's future in 12 months time will be more relevant as he nears the end of his current contract.

 

[WA Lion]

And getting Schache with picks 1 or 2 which now looks very likely will not in itself be enough for rapid improvement from the start of next season...it depends heavily on getting hold of Dixon this summer.

I think our tall forward structure this year has been the worst that I have seen in an AFL side...we have also been hurt by Close and Freeman missing out on this year's development but the non-replacement of Clark,for whatever reasons, with a quality developed player over the past 3 seasons,has hurt us and if we add missing out on Dixon to missing out on Tippett (TWICE) then expect the forward target situation to be dicey and,most likely,be heavily dependent on young,inexperienced talls next year.

If things go well in 2016,including the injury toll,talk about Leppa's future in 12 months time will be more relevant as he nears the end of his current contract.

Well said, the dysfunctional forward structure has killed us this year - no side can be successful when your Number 1 inside 50 target is a 19yo!

If things are still the same in 12 months questions of Leppa would be justified as 3 years is plenty of time.

 

[Big Lion]

Walker from the Cats no good? Good option if we can get him at the right price. Better than selling the farm for an injury prone player that will cost us a fair bit.

 

[lukiuslion]

Walker from the Cats no good? Good option if we can get him at the right price. Better than selling the farm for an injury prone player that will cost us a fair bit.

Id be happy with walker if it was on a reasonable deal, I have faith in close and freeman, but we need a big body up there too to take the attention off them. Was happy with Luke McGuane last night, but he isn't that bullocking forward we need. Whilst walker isn't Tippett or Dixon, we also won't have to sell the farm to get him.

 

[Hysteria25]

Hopefully he is waiting for Hird to be sacked.

Any reason you don't want Bomber Thompson?

 

[MacMum]

Yeah.....I'd prefer to have Leppa

 

[Quigley]

Hey I love Voss.... But under his watch we got Fev which set us back massively then we lost a whole generation of players which damaged our culture which tumbled us down the ladder... Not Leppa!

I'm not marking Leppa's success on a win loss ratio just yet.

Under Leppa we have recruited Mitch Robinson, Dayne Beams, Allen Christensen who wouldn't of come if we had no leadership or stability. He has also blooded ALL of our new recruits with LTaylor winning the Rising star award playing a role Leppa gave him.

He made Rockcliff captain.
And from all accounts is apart of getting Craig Lambert back to the Den.


He is rebuilding from scratch this year with players that are either new to the club or new to AFL... And has had 0 continuity due to massive injury tolls. One of the worst in AFL history.

Yet you write him off Quigley?? Surprised to hear this coming from you.

Gubby Allen brought in Fev and it is a long bow to draw to say it set us back a generation. At that stage we had a lot of experienced leaders in our side including Black and Brown and I am sure they were more than capable of dealing with the short term negative influence that was Fevola. We did fall down the ladder after that which con-incided with the stripping of resources out of the football department and the off field issues. The club gave Voss a bit too much control too early and did not put the quality around him that they should have. Voss though was starting to work through it and the two years before he finished we had won 10 games each year. Voss I think struggled with the man management side of things which as a capt I would have said was his strength. I did like what he was trying to do game plan wise although we didn't have the cattle to play it consistently.

So I wild adopt a consistent approach and whilst I do not give Voss the main blame for recruiting Fev I am not giving Leppa the credit for recruiting Beams, Christensen and Robinson. I think a lot of credit for getting those guys goes to Swan and the power of the almighty dollar. I do think Christensen was played entirely too early and his lack of fitness has let us down at times. The weakness of our midfield has been its defensive running and I will note that that is also the weakness of both Beams and Christensen and that this year our defensive running through the midfield has been terrible and the recruiting of those two is very evident in that regard.

Leppa comes from a defensive coaching background and we have been terrible in this regard. Our forward line has been decimated but defensively it is about structure and desire and we have been appalling. There is not sign that this group knows what they are supposed to do nor that what they have been instructed to do is remotely effective.

Aish and Taylor had a good first year and went backwards this year with more exposure to Leppa's system. There are a couple you can say have made somewhat marginal improvement under Leppa but the vast majority have gone backwards. Injuries or note you expect individual improvement and we have seen the opposite.

I supported the decision to make Rocky capt but that might have been too soon as well. Whatever way you look at it it has not been a positive for Leppa.

We are note where Voss left us. We have regressed and are starting from scratch because that is where Leppa and his team have lead us. Leppa did not guarantee wins this year but did guarantee that we would be more competitive. That has not happened and I think he ends to be held accountable.