Lib's plan for Data Retention

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Richard Pryor said:
Abbott didn't get voted in on the basis of his budget, he didn't get voted in because of his "levy", and to be fair Gillard didn't get voted in on her carbon tax..
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Gillard didn't get voted it in at all. And she certainly didn't get voted in for promising to stop live exports, but had no problem banning them without consulting the senate. You are just cherry picking.

Partisan politics is not the sole reason for criticising Abbott, and just because someone is criticising Abbott does not mean they are cheerleading for the other team.
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Claiming that Abbott is a fascist with a plot to install a totalitarian regime goes a fair bit further than "criticism". Especially as this Liberal government is no more totalitarian than the last Labor government. Who - among other things - vetoed due process in government tenders, banned live exports and numerous kinds of fishing, bragged that they could "make ISPs wear underpants on their head" if they wanted to, because they were the government, tried to install a mandatory internet filter etc. etc.

So yes you are being partisan by claiming that Abbott is another level of controlling when previous governments were arguably worse.
 
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pokerspiv said:
Gillard didn't get voted it in at all. And she certainly didn't get voted in for promising to shop live exports, but had no problem banning them without consulting the senate. You are just cherry picking.



Claiming that Abbott is a fascist with a plot to install a totalitarian regime goes a fair bit further than "criticism". Especially as this Liberal government is no more totalitarian than the last Labor government. Who - among other things - vetoed due process in government tenders, banned live exports and numerous kinds of fishing, bragged that they could "make ISPs wear underpants on their head" if they wanted to, because they were the government, tried to install a mandatory internet filter etc. etc.

So yes you are being partisan by claiming that Abbott is another level of controlling when previous governments were arguably worse.
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It would be being partisan if I was suggesting that Abbott was worse than previous governments solely because he is from a different party, I am not. I also didn't intend to say he was literally a fascist trying to install a totalitarian regime, merely that he has shown totalitarian leanings although I fail to see how this goes 'a fair bit further' than criticism. What would you call calling this policy totalitarian? Treason?, how is it partisan to suggest that Abbott is totalitarian, but suggesting Labour was more totalitarian is not?

Suggesting that Labour being factually arguably worse than Liberal is proof that criticising the Liberal party could only be because of partisan factors I consider to be partisan.

I may be mistaken or misinformed in my reasons for why I dislike this current government more than the last one (where this isn't the thread to discuss), but I don't think this because of partisan reasons. At least I certainly hope I'm not.

In any case I think i've raved enough. Ultimately it is irrelevant to this current government if Gillard or Rudd were worse, although it's good for people to discuss that, Labour's previous government should definitely NOT be the yardstick for quality in Australian governments anyway.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...want-my-metadata-george-brandis-get-a-warrant
Best article that explains the difference between data and meta data. Perhaps George and Tony should read it.
What I can't understand is why us, the consumer should pay for it. We pay the internet provider for their service. Now the government want the internet providers to collect and store this information. To me it seems they are they customer so they should pay for it.
 
pokerspiv said:
It's really not at all different to the last government. All governments are like this. People don't aspire to be PM so they can leave you alone. Singling out Abbott as if he's somehow much worse than Rudd or Gillard is pretty much the definition of partisan politics.

The people who talk like this are the same people who were organising protests against Abbott before he even took office. The point is their team didn't win, and they are very angry about that.
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Nope.
 
pokerspiv said:
Claiming that Abbott is a fascist with a plot to install a totalitarian regime goes a fair bit further than "criticism".
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No one did this.

My criticisms of Rudd, Conroy et al, were numerous. In fact, you are the one turning this into a liberal labor issue. Claiming the other guys were worse (in your opinion), is neither an argument, nor an excuse. It's merely apologetics and reduces the conversation to a level of partisan bickering.
 

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DivideandMultiply said:
No one did this.

My criticisms of Rudd, Conroy et al, were numerous. In fact, you are the one turning this into a liberal labor issue. Claiming the other guys were worse (in your opinion), is neither an argument, nor an excuse. It's merely apologetics and reduces the conversation to a level of partisan bickering.
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Spot on. It should be more of an alarm bell ringer to everyone that the majors aren't that far apart in regards to their views on peoples rights to privacy.

I wouldn't discount back room discusions and collusion in coming years between them on how to monitor the people using such information.
 
knife said:
Looking a bit down the track, but it'll be interesting to see if the LDP and Leyonhjelm can capitalise on disaffected liberals.
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Since 1975 the two major parties' primary vote share has dropped at every election.

It's a trend that seems set to continue - I expect LDP have existed for long enough to have a small band of long term supporters that ensure they have a basis for incremental growth
 
knife said:
Looking a bit down the track, but it'll be interesting to see if the LDP and Leyonhjelm can capitalise on disaffected liberals.
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He's been getting quite a bit of air time since he was sworn in. I have a feeling the media see him as a true independent and someone they can get something a bit closer to the truth out of in regards to back room dealings in the senate.

How voters respond to that who knows.
 
Mofra said:
Since 1975 the two major parties' primary vote share has dropped at every election.

It's a trend that seems set to continue - I expect LDP have existed for long enough to have a small band of long term supporters that ensure they have a basis for incremental growth
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25% of Australians didn't vote for any of the 3 major parties last election. That's around 5+ million people.

The LDP however will face a similar problem that the Greens did early on in that a lot of people would be scared off by what people will perceive as their "radical" views over their more people friendly social policies.

For the LDP it'll be easy to try and discredit them over their stance on guns regardless of how many of their other policies are all about social acceptance and equality.
 
Long Live HFC said:
that word doesn't mean what you think it means.
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Yes it does.

If they are colluding to gain information about voters when other parties aren't privvy to the very same information then it will be collusion.

It's not collusion if all information is made readily available to all parties.
 
DivideandMultiply said:
What do you think it means?

In common language it can refer to a secret or conspiratorial agreement. It also has more specific definitions, be they legal, related to business or academia.
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collusion by definition is illegal. there's nothing illegal about political parties agreeing or cooperating.
 
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