Roast Australian Politics Stuffing Up Australia - Treasurer Joe Hockey Pg26

[Old Spice]

I'll be succinct.

Do we want to live in an economy or a society.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I feel like I'm the only person who can open both eyes and acknowledge the shortcomings of both parties.

Nah, I despise 'em both

 

[hellfire]

I'll be succinct.

Do we want to live in an economy or a society.

A society that is run by an economy.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I'll be succinct.

Do we want to live in an economy or a society.

Dispense with capitalism? What do you propose?

 

[Old Spice]

I propose that the majority of people be put foremost in economic decisions by government rather than a few rich bastards.

For example, a resource rent tax on our national deposits which provides revenue to the general population that can be pumped back into government coffers and redistributed to health, education and culture. Or that we clamp down on unpaid overtime so that singles are properly paid or so families can spend time with their loved ones rather than the boss without being nutted.

Or that we invest in our culture so we have an interesting society. Or curbing bank interest rates to free money up for people to spend that money as they like rather than letting major shareholders get fat off the lamb.

Some people want to get wealthy, and good for them, but I'd suggest most people live to spend quality time with people they love. I think our society is too twisted toward the former.

At the end of the day life is short and I for one certainly don't want to consider my existence as having been helpful to some corporation that will not exist in 50 years, but rather that the wealth which abounds in our society has made my and my families life enjoyable in this mortal coil.

Does wealth serve us, or do we serve wealth?

 

[TradeDraft]

More and More Companies Leaving or Going Under.

Thanks to the Idiots in Canberra

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

For example, a resource rent tax on our national deposits which provides revenue to the general population that can be pumped back into government coffers and redistributed to health, education and culture. Or that we clamp down on unpaid overtime so that singles are properly paid or so families can spend time with their loved ones rather than the boss without being nutted.

This. The primary reason for the high Aussie dollar, which has killed the rest of the export market and along with FTA's (Free Trade Taliban, anyone?) have killed local manufacturing

 

[TradeDraft]

Also having a Arrogant Tool in Joe Hockey as Treasure also does not help

 

[jathanas]

These days I'm more likely to focus on the lack of vision and integrity in politics, both major parties included and don't get me started on the independents.

The ALP were not helped by trying to govern as a minority. It was a slow motion train wreck. Just terrible.

The current mob haven't set my world on fire and I'm indifferent to the current PM.

I note the left leaning posts here and understand the philosophy. I can also understand the flip side.

We live in the best country on earth. By world standards our governments are very accountable. So it ain't that bad. as much as the lefties hate the Libs, and vice versa.

Much has changed here during my lifetime, and mostly for the better. Melbourne is now such a cosmopolitan city, with world class facilities everywhere. We've had it good up until now. The future will bring enormous challenges to us. The ageing population and the strain on healthcare, the world economy, housing affordability etc. are going to be some tough ones. We will need to innovate and develop high tech industries. It's a market driven world, and we need to sell Australia's best to the world.

A liberal administration with a social conscience would be where my vote would go. Not because they are perfect, they're far from it. Simply because they are less likely to bankrupt the country.

Utopia? Well in my view that's up to each individual to create their own version of it.

 

[jonbe54]

Australia has some of the best and most generous welfare in the world

Which speaks volumes for the sheer cruelty of the rest of the world.

 

[blaze036]

Which speaks volumes for the sheer cruelty of the rest of the world.

Well most countries aren't blessed with the ridiculous wealth we have.

 

[jonbe54]

Well most countries aren't blessed with the ridiculous wealth we have.

America does and has had for most of its history yet they condemn their unemployed after a very short period of government support.

Now where do you suppose all that crime comes from eh??

People faced with thier kids facing starvation will do anything to see that doesn't happen.

Forcing people out of the safety net is FALSE economy because it simply drives the crime rate up.

Then again I don't expect you or others that push the right wing economic line to understand or care so happy days Blaze.

 

[blaze036]

America does and has had for most of its history yet they condemn their unemployed after a very short period of government support.

Now where do you suppose all that crime comes from eh??

People faced with thier kids facing starvation will do anything to see that doesn't happen.

Forcing people out of the safety net is FALSE economy because it simply drives the crime rate up.

Then again I don't expect you or others that push the right wing economic line to understand or care so happy days Blaze.

 

[jonbe54]

I am an easy going person on a great many things Blaze but NOT on the so called economic elite club that runs world economies, centred in American Economics departments in the Ivy League they push their stupidity down the throats of the entire world.

Their policies and teachings are the direct cause of the GFC, yet nothing has been or will be done.

So please don't take it as personal but ANYONE who buys their lick spittle excuse for economic theory are just not credible in my eyes.

 

[TradeDraft]

I am an easy going person on a great many things Blaze but NOT on the so called economic elite club that runs world economies, centred in American Economics departments in the Ivy League they push their stupidity down the throats of the entire world.

Their policies and teachings are the direct cause of the GFC, yet nothing has been or will be done.

So please don't take it as personal but ANYONE who buys their lick spittle excuse for economic theory are just not credible in my eyes.

and They just want to get Richer and don't care about the Working Class

 

[Old Spice]

and They just want to get Richer and don't care about the Working Class

Dave has it in a nutshell there.

If you're going to destroy working-class jobs then you need to have jobs to replace them with. But instead the Liberals complain about union negotiated outcomes like decent wages, overtime, regular work hours and redundancy packages. More than that they don't invest in education or retraining for workers or a new economy.

At the same time they want to clamp down on dole payments which are actually tiny compared to middle class welfare payments. And absolutely dwarfed by the fuel subsidies paid to mining companies who rip off our resources and make billionaires. Here's an idea, tax resources that belong to the nation (as far as I'm aware Clive Palmer and Gina Rinehart never produced any natural resources except methane), stop giving them billions in fuel subsidies and invest that money in skills training and education.

 

[TradeDraft]

Dave has it in a nutshell there.

If you're going to destroy working-class jobs then you need to have jobs to replace them with. But instead the Liberals complain about union negotiated outcomes like decent wages, overtime, regular work hours and redundancy packages. More than that they don't invest in education or retraining for workers or a new economy.

At the same time they want to clamp down on dole payments which are actually tiny compared to middle class welfare payments. And absolutely dwarfed by the fuel subsidies paid to mining companies who rip off our resources and make billionaires. Here's an idea, tax resources that belong to the nation (as far as I'm aware Clive Palmer and Gina Rinehart never produced any natural resources except methane), stop giving them billions in fuel subsidies and invest that money in skills training and education.

I would love these Rich Snobs to live on the Pension for a Year and see what they think after that

 

[Old Spice]

I would love these Rich Snobs to live on the Pension for a Year and see what they think after that

They'd have you breaking rocks Dave to build your character.

 

[TradeDraft]

They'd have you breaking rocks Dave to build your character.

Shows what Pricks they are, Espically Joe Hocky

 

[TradeDraft]

It’s Offical this Government are full of Pricks who will Destroy the Country.

They are attacking people who need help the most.

They want to take money from people on Disability who really need it.

Showing that they rather people on the Streets then on Welfare.

What a pack of C**ts

 

[jathanas]

I am an easy going person on a great many things Blaze but NOT on the so called economic elite club that runs world economies, centred in American Economics departments in the Ivy League they push their stupidity down the throats of the entire world.

Their policies and teachings are the direct cause of the GFC, yet nothing has been or will be done.

So please don't take it as personal but ANYONE who buys their lick spittle excuse for economic theory are just not credible in my eyes.

That's drawing a bit of a long bow IMO Jon but I respect your view and will support your right to have that belief.

 

[jonbe54]

That's drawing a bit of a long bow IMO Jon but I respect your view and will support your right to have that belief.

History is a great reference source jathanas, look back to the depression which my parents experienced personally and you will find exactly the same type of economic stupidity as the root cuase. The great economic houses of the time loudly proclaimed that such a catastrophe would never happen again, but it did - didn't it?

It's not incompetence but the incredibly selfish and stupid belief that by juggling numbers and relablelling necassary safegaurds as 'desireable future outcomes' the day of reckoning can be put off indefinitely.

Again we have the terrifyingly simplistic example of the 'greed is good' decade to look back on. We all recognize that this was stupidity of the highest order but the great finanacial houses and the core economic educators and regulators at the time endorsed it wholeheartedly.

This time it happened with high risk loans financed by fairy like glass houses of pyramid scheme operations designed simply to generate immense short term wealth for a tiny percentage of highly placed sharks and again the economic 'experts' and educational institutions not only accepted but enthusiastically endorsed the practices.

FFS its economic stupidity so bad it borders on vandalism.

So in the wash up we have a few minor players going to the wall and some individuals hung out to dry but the system which spawned all these abortions is still in place and still indoctrinating the world with their dangerous and selfish mantra.

The problem is that everyone that has any influence upon economic matters is a devotee of the same doctrine, how can you have effective risk management and independent oversight if the managers and overseers have been trained by the same people they are supposed to control??

You can't of course, the organizations responsible and most of the principals once again slither away free to subject the world to another installment down the track because they are simply above the law and beyond criticism.

Give me a break.

 

[jathanas]

My point jonbe54 was not to defend the greed is good ethos of the GFC instigators! That's pretty well indefensible.

Damning the economic principles of capitalism because of the GFC is where I saw the long bow. In my view a market driven system remains the best way to develop a strong economy... in practice. The greed and corruption of human beings trusted to implement these systems have resulted in financial disasters where the less fortunate suffer the greatest exposure; the very same human failings have created such problems in socialist and communist states...

I'll repeat that I have no issue at all with your views, and can see clearly that you have a very strong conviction with regards to these matters.

 

[jonbe54]

My point jonbe54 was not to defend the greed is good ethos of the GFC instigators! That's pretty well indefensible.

Damning the economic principles of capitalism because of the GFC is where I saw the long bow. In my view a market driven system remains the best way to develop a strong economy... in practice. The greed and corruption of human beings trusted to implement these systems have resulted in financial disasters where the less fortunate suffer the greatest exposure; the very same human failings have created such problems in socialist and communist states...

I'll repeat that I have no issue at all with your views, and can see clearly that you have a very strong conviction with regards to these matters.

I understand your apprehensions and appreciate your views jathanas but please don't for an instant imagine I am in the communist / fascist school of thought - far from it - I beleive some the worst excesses in modern times have been caused by these type of regimes but I feel our capitalist creed has become dangerously unbalanced in that the tail is now wagging the dog.

To put it as succinctly as possible then, there is FAR too much capital and corporate penetration into government and social decision making in the so-called first world. Nearly every piece of legislation passed is weighted in favour of capital or corporate demands.

The single FACT that demonstrates this beyond contention - IMHO - is that the US has enshrined the right of lobby groups to set up camp in capitol buildings and have unrestricted access to senators and sensitive information. They are allowed and subtly encouraged to buy favours and in fact control the direction of much of the policy decision making process - which is absolutely OBSCENE, again IMHO.

We live in the times of the merchant princes and in time we will pay a terrible price for our credulous behaviour.

 

[jathanas]

I understand your apprehensions and appreciate your views jathanas but please don't for an instant imagine I am in the communist / fascist school of thought - far from it - I beleive some the worst excesses in modern times have been caused by these type of regimes but I feel our capitalist creed has become dangerously unbalanced in that the tail is now wagging the dog.

To put it as succinctly as possible then, there is FAR too much capital and corporate penetration into government and social decision making in the so-called first world. Nearly every piece of legislation passed is weighted in favour of capital or corporate demands.

The single FACT that demonstrates this beyond contention - IMHO - is that the US has enshrined the right of lobby groups to set up camp in capitol buildings and have unrestricted access to senators and sensitive information. They are allowed and subtly encouraged to buy favours and in fact control the direction of much of the policy decision making process - which is absolutely OBSCENE, again IMHO.

We live in the times of the merchant princes and in time we will pay a terrible price for our credulous behaviour.

I agree Jon. I think that we Australians would be better off if we closely studied the Scandinavian societies as opposed to transforming our country into a "mini-US", especially with regards to our education, health, and welfare policies.

I believe that a state should be market driven (free economy) but also have a social conscience...