List management - Carltons 'significant rebuild' - make us an offer...

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Jamieson is 30+ and with bung shoulders who gets destroyed by most of the big power forwards - Kennedy, Hawkins, Cloke etc. He would be a late 2nd round, 3rd round pick for a team contending, perhaps Richmond if they lose Rance might pay a bit more.

 

[HBF]

Jamieson is 30+ and with bung shoulders who gets destroyed by most of the big power forwards - Kennedy, Hawkins, Cloke etc. He would be a late 2nd round, 3rd round pick for a team contending, perhaps Richmond if they lose Rance might pay a bit more.

Jamison has really struggled this year. This could just be the year he really goes backwards as a key defender.

 

[Pykie]

I reckon North will be very interested in a Murphy/Gibbs if it comes to that.

 

[Malifice]

Jamieson is 30+ and with bung shoulders who gets destroyed by most of the big power forwards - Kennedy, Hawkins, Cloke etc. He would be a late 2nd round, 3rd round pick for a team contending, perhaps Richmond if they lose Rance might pay a bit more.

Hes 28, and he doesnt regularly get destroyed at all.

 

[GROTTO]

I reckon North will be very interested in a Murphy/Gibbs if it comes to that.

North are the most likely team to give up top draft picks to appease the Blues. Their premiership period is now for the next year or two.

 

[Scotland]

You wouldnt trade pick 24 for Chris Yarran? You are either seriously overrating pick 24, or underrating Yarran.

Of the eight players selected with pick 24 from 2003-2010 you get: Jake Carlisle, Cleve Hughes, Brent Renouf, Clayton Hinkley, Nick Suban, Chad Jones, Nathan Van Berlo, Jamie Cripps. Half that lot are already delisted, Cripps and Suban are OK without being anything special, and only Carlisle and Van Berlo are near the quality of Yarran.

Run the numbers; only a fool wouldnt trade 24 for Yarran even if Carlton were stupid enough to contemplate such a trade (which we wouldnt).

Would you trade pick 24 to get Yarran to Carlton? You seem to think Jamison would fetch a first round pick, so I'll keep your player ratings to one side for a moment. Pick 24 from the 2015 draft probably won't have a better career than Chris Masten. Do you think Carlton would prefer a 26 year old Chris Masten or a shot an an unknown kid?

Our team - like yours but to a slightly lesser degree - sucks. Yarran would add some value, but we'd still be a long way off it. It's not about whether Yarran will be better than pick 24, it's about using what picks we do have to try and get the players that will fill the gaping holes in our list.

 

[Malifice]

Would you trade pick 24 to get Yarran to Carlton? You seem to think Jamison would fetch a first round pick, so I'll keep your player ratings to one side for a moment. Pick 24 from the 2015 draft probably won't have a better career than Chris Masten. Do you think Carlton would prefer a 26 year old Chris Masten or a shot an an unknown kid?

Our team - like yours but to a slightly lesser degree - sucks. Yarran would add some value, but we'd still be a long way off it. It's not about whether Yarran will be better than pick 24, it's about using what picks we do have to try and get the players that will fill the gaping holes in our list.

I'm not saying you wouldn't jump at getting Yarran for pick 24. Quite the opposite.

I'm saying we would be idiots to entertain that trade. Going by the history of picks in the 20s over the past decade, we have a less than 1/4 chance of getting a player with comparable talent at that pick, a 1 in 4 of a player with less talent and a 50 percent chance of a bloke that'll be delisted within 5 years.

Barring FA, we'll be keeping Yarran unless the deal is something ridiculous. He's only 24 and a gun well worth the pick 6 we drafted him with.

 

[Scotland]

OK,

Change of tack required. If you "wouldn't entertain" trading Chris Yarran for pick 24, then what would you entertain trading him for?

And of the other players with currency? Gibbs, Murphy, Henderson, Walker, Jamison - whoever.

Two top 10 picks were traded in 2014. These involved trades for Dayne Beams and Ryan Griffen. Carlton have no one of that cailbre. The previous year top 10 picks were swapped between WC and Collingwood and also Melbourne and GWS. The latter doesn't really count given the stockpiles of top 10 picks those clubs have shared. The year before just more exchanges between GC, GWS and Melbourne. 2011 more mini draft stuff. Other than that I can only think of the Judd trade with Carlton and the complicated Mark Williams/Shaun Burgoyne multi club deal for player trades involving top 10 picks.

I simply don't see Carlton getting the sort of picks they are going to want for the players on offer.

A big part of rebuilding from a very low base is taking the 50/50 risk that players will be delisted within 5 years. Pick 10 or 20 or 50 or whoever might be delisted within 5 years, Jamison, Walker, Murphy are odds on to be.

St Kilda effectively gave up Brendon Goddard for pick 12 and Nick Dal Santo for pick 25. They traded McEvoy for Savage and pick 18. They traded picks 24 and 59 for pick 19. They even somehow traded Rhys Stanley for pick 21.

In the last three drafts they've added (in addition to Lee, Longer, Savage and Hickey via trade) picks 24, 25, 3, 18, 19, 1, 21, 22. Time will tell if they are on a good path and if they drafted the right players, but they were going nowhere as Carlton (and even my club) are doing currently. Their list profile is improving on what it was 2-3 years ago and they have some kids who were highly rated.

I mean Carlton can get three pick 1s in a row again, but they'll have to do it the way they did last time...

 

[Malifice]

OK,

Change of tack required. If you "wouldn't entertain" trading Chris Yarran for pick 24, then what would you entertain trading him for?

And of the other players with currency? Gibbs, Murphy, Henderson, Walker, Jamison - whoever.

Two top 10 picks were traded in 2014. These involved trades for Dayne Beams and Ryan Griffen. Carlton have no one of that cailbre. The previous year top 10 picks were swapped between WC and Collingwood and also Melbourne and GWS. The latter doesn't really count given the stockpiles of top 10 picks those clubs have shared. The year before just more exchanges between GC, GWS and Melbourne. 2011 more mini draft stuff. Other than that I can only think of the Judd trade with Carlton and the complicated Mark Williams/Shaun Burgoyne multi club deal for player trades involving top 10 picks.

I simply don't see Carlton getting the sort of picks they are going to want for the players on offer.
.

We wouldn't trade Yarran unless the trade was heavily in our favor, or at the least in a like for like trade. He's only 24, a gun and on an upwards trajectory. Went from 10th in the B and F to 4th last year. His consistency and tank are steadily improving, and no one can question his skill and flair. He's already built an impressive highlight reel, and had been named in our best in nearly every game in the last 30 odd prior to his recent suspension. Barring injury he'll still be playing into his 30s in seven or eight years time.

There is a reason most comments in this thread are directed at enquiries about trading him from us.

To answer your question, I would only trade him for a player of similar quality, or a pick that is guaranteed to net us such a player, and even then only if he indicated he wanted to leave.

By comparison Jack Darling is in the same age bracket (a year younger) and finished 5th in your B and F last year (1 lower than Yarran) What in your opinion is a fair trade value for Darling?

 

[Scotland]

We wouldn't trade Yarran unless the trade was heavily in our favor, or at the least in a like for like trade. He's only 24, a gun and on an upwards trajectory. Went from 10th in the B and F to 4th last year. His consistency and tank are steadily improving, and no one can question his skill and flair. He's already built an impressive highlight reel, and had been named in our best in nearly every game in the last 30 odd prior to his recent suspension. Barring injury he'll still be playing into his 30s in seven or eight years time.

There is a reason most comments in this thread are directed at enquiries about trading him from us.

1. He's not a gun. He has potential and shows glimpses. Guns are in AA contention in their position. Yarran is not that at this point in time. We have Mackenzie, Hurn, Kennedy and Naitanui. Plus LeCras who is probably not at the level he was. Other than that, the arsenal is pretty bare. Yours is even barer.

2. There are multiple reasons. People still talk about trading in Jack Watts. It's not because he's done anything good, it's because he has hidden potential (somewhere) and clubs think they can get an ex #1 draft pick for pick 80 and turn him into a star. Most trade discussions centre around a player's (fictitious or otherwise) desire to leave a club/join another and what can be arrange between the two. If Yarran has no desire to leave Carlton or is not on the list of players the club want to shop around to get draft picks then this specific discussion is immaterial. Likewise if he's "worth" pick 10 then that doesn't mean a lot if the club he's being traded to doesn't have it.

To answer your question, I would only trade him for a player of similar quality, or a pick that is guaranteed to net us such a player, and even then only if he indicated he wanted to leave.

By comparison Jack Darling is in the same age bracket (a year younger) and finished 5th in your B and F last year (1 lower than Yarran) What in your opinion is a fair trade value for Darling?

You're not really answering the question. No pick is guaranteed to net anything, otherwise with 3 #1s in a row you'd be premiers by now. Yarran was pick 6 in 2008. If you think he's worth that or 10 or 20 then that's your opinion. Whatever it is pick 24 clearly it isn't.

Darling is a young key forward who has already put together a 50+ goal season without the support of Kennedy or LeCras. Out injured at the moment so his value wouldn't be at its peak, but I think a few clubs would be prepared to offer their first pick to get him - assuming he is back and in form this season. Would St Kilda give us pick 1? No. Would a finalist in need of a tall target? I think so. He's still only 22 also, two years younger than Yarran.

What is 'fair' depends on circumstances. We're not shopping players for draft picks, there is no 'go home' factor and he has expressed no desire to leave. If it somehow unfolded that he walked out on the club and wanted to join another I imagine it would unfold like the Dayne Beams trade. Lots of posturing then we'd take as good a deal as we can in the circumstances.

 

[Lach72]

Darling is a young key forward who has already put together a 50+ goal season without the support of Kennedy or LeCras. Out injured at the moment so his value wouldn't be at its peak, but I think a few clubs would be prepared to offer their first pick to get him - assuming he is back and in form this season. Would St Kilda give us pick 1? No. Would a finalist in need of a tall target? I think so. He's still only 22 also, two years younger than Yarran.
.

Hawthorn did it with Gunston.
I'd consider it

 

[Malifice]

Darling is a young key forward who has already put together a 50+ goal season without the support of Kennedy or LeCras. Out injured at the moment so his value wouldn't be at its peak, but I think a few clubs would be prepared to offer their first pick to get him - assuming he is back and in form this season. Would St Kilda give us pick 1? No. Would a finalist in need of a tall target? I think so. He's still only 22 also, two years younger than Yarran.

What is 'fair' depends on circumstances. We're not shopping players for draft picks, there is no 'go home' factor and he has expressed no desire to leave. If it somehow unfolded that he walked out on the club and wanted to join another I imagine it would unfold like the Dayne Beams trade. Lots of posturing then we'd take as good a deal as we can in the circumstances.

There is the answer to your question on Yarran.

 

[Scotland]

Just read the first 8 pages. Thread is an eye opener.

One wonders why with so many players worth first round picks Carlton aren't contending right now.

 

[Scotland]

Hawthorn did it with Gunston.
I'd consider it

Freo would take do it in a heartbeat. Your first pick will be 15+, you'll probably be a preliminary finalist at least and your best tall forward is 34 this year.

I'd cry a lot if it happened.

 

[Malifice]

Just read the first 8 pages. Thread is an eye opener.

One wonders why with so many players worth first round picks Carlton aren't contending right now.

What are Natinui, Darling, Mackenzie and Kennedy worth?

 

[inamedthegiants]

We wouldn't trade Yarran unless the trade was heavily in our favor, or at the least in a like for like trade. He's only 24, a gun and on an upwards trajectory. Went from 10th in the B and F to 4th last year. His consistency and tank are steadily improving, and no one can question his skill and flair. He's already built an impressive highlight reel, and had been named in our best in nearly every game in the last 30 odd prior to his recent suspension. Barring injury he'll still be playing into his 30s in seven or eight years time.

There is a reason most comments in this thread are directed at enquiries about trading him from us.

To answer your question, I would only trade him for a player of similar quality, or a pick that is guaranteed to net us such a player, and even then only if he indicated he wanted to leave.

By comparison Jack Darling is in the same age bracket (a year younger) and finished 5th in your B and F last year (1 lower than Yarran) What in your opinion is a fair trade value for Darling?

Do you know what a gun footballer is?

Yarran is not a gun.

 

[Malifice]

Do you know what a gun footballer is?

Yarran is not a gun.

None of that was from his best year last year when he finished 4th in our BnF.

Consistently ranked 1st in running bounces per game.

Not elite, but clearly a gun.

 

[inamedthegiants]

None of that was from his best year last year when he finished 4th in our BnF.

Consistently ranked 1st in running bounces per game.

Not elite, but clearly a gun.

I wouldn't trade any single player on our list, from our best, Callan Ward to our worst, Sam Schulz for Chris Yarran.

Not sure if it's the Carlton Stank around him but I just don't rate him. At all.

 

[Malifice]

I wouldn't trade any single player on our list, from our best, Callan Ward to our worst, Sam Schulz for Chris Yarran.

Yet he's the bloke generating the most intrest in this thread.

Maybe youre right and were all wrong.

 

[inamedthegiants]

Yet he's the bloke generating the most intrest in this thread.

Maybe youre right and were all wrong.

Or maybe I understimate him because I just hate Carlton?

 

[Malifice]

Or maybe I understimate him because I just hate Carlton?

Stop trolling.

 

[Scotland]

What are Natinui, Darling, Mackenzie and Kennedy worth?

More than anyone you're shopping around. I wouldn't trade any one of them for any one player on your list in an unconditional straight swap.

Do you think you'd be better with a 27 year old Kennedy instead of a 27 year old Murphy or Thomas? How about a 22 year old Darling or 24 year old Naitanui? One of them or Yarran? Hypotheticals can go on all day...

Maybe we can discuss your thoughts on the trade value of West Coast players in my 'West Coast's 'significant rebuild' - make us an offer...' thread, should I start one.

 

[inamedthegiants]

Stop trolling.

Just reading to see if any GWS players were linked in trade deals.

Any news on Whiley? Very, very good player - been playing for the Northern Blues?

 

[BorisDawg]

What would Carlton supporters expect in return if we were to go after Henderson or Yarran?

 

[Scotland]

What would Carlton supporters expect in return if we were to go after Henderson or Yarran?

To answer your question, I would only trade him for a player of similar quality, or a pick that is guaranteed to net us such a player, and even then only if he indicated he wanted to leave.

There you go!

Given you are a Dogs fan I assume that means Bontempelli, Liberatore, Boyd, Stringer, MacRae or your first draft pick if you somehow finish bottom 4.