Location of off the ball free kicks

[soupaman]

The Petrie free against my club yesterday brought up what has long been a consistent annoyance for me regarding where a free kick is paid.

For those that are unaware what happened, after a goal was kicked by the Dogs but before the ball was bounced Petrie and Roughead got in a bit of push and shove, Petrie went to ground and the umpire paid him a free, which happened to be about 35m out on a slight angle and resulted in a relatively easy set shot and goal from a fairly minor incident (similar to the infamous Riewoldt free many prelims ago).

My issue is with the location of where the free is taken, as I don't believe it should be from where the incident occurred.

As it stands the free is paid where the incident occurred, unless where the ball lies is in a better spot, which results in the free being paid where the ball is. This means inherently the punishment is much more severe for a defender giving away a free than a forward:
-If a defender gives away the free, it's a freekick in the oppositions forwardline, therefore a set shot for free.
-If a forward gives away the free, it's a freekick to the defenders side, and therefore in the centre circle (to the ruckman) where the defenders team still has to manufacture a shot on goal somehow.

So two vastly different and inequal punishments for the exact same action, all dependant on where the incident happened to have occurred.

I believe the free should be paid where the ball is at the time of the offence, regardless of where the incident occurred. This punishes/compensates either team evenly and fairly, and doesn't unfairly punish a player because they play on the last line of defence. If the team receiving the free already has a mark freekick or unimpeded possession, then a 50m penalty is applied.

Ie: If it is an off the ball free kick to Team A, and it is either in team B's possession or a 50-50 ball (50-50 balls include when team A is being tackled or has no positive control of the ball), then it is a freekick to Team A where the ball lies. If it is an off the ball free kick to team A, and team A is in possession, regardless of how ( aside from the aforementioned 50-50 situations), it is their freekick and a 50m penalty.

This would only apply for off the ball incidents, if it happened as part of the play or a marking contest or anything like that normal rules apply, I just think with the present rules it is too heavily in the forwards favour and incentivises play acting on their behalf.

Happy to debate it.

 

[Tatts22]

I think if it's a free after a goal & before the bounce the free should be taken in the centre square so I think I agree with you!

I know this is not the point but I also think that free to Petrie should have been reversed when Lyndsay Thomas came in after the fact & made things worse

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

I'm a full-back.

My team has the ball in our forwardline.

We kick to a contest and turn the ball over.

Your HBF starts sprinting down the wing unmarked, and the full-forward is about to lead.

I tackle him to the ground. The umpire blows his whistle and stops play. 10 of our players run into defence whilst the umpire sorts it out.

Where is the free taken from?

 

[Tiger Toffee]

To the letter of the law, the petrie free kick being awarded in the forward line is correct, if the ball had of been awarded at the centre circle this would be a disadvantage to NM whereas a defender gets his free kick taken from the centre circle and not in the backline as this is the advantage to that team.

I'm a full-back.

My team has the ball in our forwardline.

We kick to a contest and turn the ball over.

Your HBF starts sprinting down the wing unmarked, and the full-forward is about to lead.

I tackle him to the ground. The umpire blows his whistle and stops play. 10 of our players run into defence whilst the umpire sorts it out.

Where is the free taken from?

From where the incident occurred.

 

[soupaman]

I'm a full-back.

My team has the ball in our forwardline.

We kick to a contest and turn the ball over.

Your HBF starts sprinting down the wing unmarked, and the full-forward is about to lead.

I tackle him to the ground. The umpire blows his whistle and stops play. 10 of our players run into defence whilst the umpire sorts it out.

Where is the free taken from?

The idea is that the rule should provide an advantage to the impeded side as a way of compensation, but not excessively or unfairly so.

In your situation the player is leading, and therefore is part of the play. Impeding players that are part of the play should be a freekick in the more dangerous position. I would argue that if the impeded player is in the process of receiving or about to receive the next kick, then it's a free where he is. So in your scenario I would give the free to the leading player because that is part of the play.

My suggestion is for stuff "off the ball" and thus not in play, because there is no reasonable expectation that they are about to receive or compete for the ball. So scuffles, melee's and the seldom used "time wasting" rule. Stuff like that, which don't affect the play, and are usually from soft freekicks anyway. I would also pay my interpretation if they were impeded from things like holding, but not in a position where they were a realistic chance of receiving the next kick. So if they get held as they run forward from their attacking goalsquare as the ball is being kicked out of their defensive 50 it's a free where the ball lands, not directly in front of goal because the infringement didn't stop their ability to compete.

 

[soupaman]

To the letter of the law, the petrie free kick being awarded in the forward line is correct, if the ball had of been awarded at the centre circle this would be a disadvantage to NM whereas a defender gets his free kick taken from the centre circle and not in the backline as this is the advantage to that team.

And this is what I'm disputing.

At that point the ball is in no ones possession, it is a 50-50 ball.

So a free in the centre circle to NM means NM have possession. Possession of the ball in the form of a free kick>a 50-50 ball. That is in no way to NM disadvantage, but actually an advantage. If they already had possession, then a 50m penalty is applied, therefore it is again to NM advantage.

As it stands NM received a freekick from a 50-50 situation, and an 80m penalty. Effectively 2.5 advantages.

 

[soupaman]

Alright I'll modify the OP slightly, to reflect how it could be done better to not slow down the impeded side.

*If it is an off the ball free kick to Team A, and it is either in team B's possession or a 50-50 ball (50-50 balls include when team A is being tackled or has no positive control of the ball), then it is a freekick to Team A where the ball lies. If it is an off the ball free kick to team A, and team A is in possession, regardless of how ( aside from the aforementioned 50-50 situations), it is their freekick and a 50m penalty.

 

[telsor]

Frees should be taken from where the ball is, where it lands (if in motion at the time) or where the infringement occurs. Whichever benefits the infringed side more.

 

[MattyB_76]

Or maybe just tell backmen not to give away stupid off the ball free kicks.

The rule is fine ... everyone knows how it works, why it works that way, it's the same for everyone. Or maybe teach your forwards to be as antagonistic as Petrie.

If we are fixing rules, this isn't one of the ones I would be bothered changing.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

And this is what I'm disputing.

At that point the ball is in no ones possession, it is a 50-50 ball.

So a free in the centre circle to NM means NM have possession. Possession of the ball in the form of a free kick>a 50-50 ball. That is in no way to NM disadvantage, but actually an advantage. If they already had possession, then a 50m penalty is applied, therefore it is again to NM advantage.

As it stands NM received a freekick from a 50-50 situation, and an 80m penalty. Effectively 2.5 advantages.

I'll try and put it in simpler terms.

Infringement occurs while ball is in play = free kick will be taken from point of infringement or if infringement occurs behind the ball the free kick will be taken from where the ball is.

After a goal and before a bounce = free kick will be taken from what is of most advantage to team receiving free kick,
ie: defender receiving a free kick, free kick will be taken from centre circle
forward receiving free kick, free kick will be taken from point of infringement.

If your defender got infringed by Petrie, where would you want that free to be taken, in the centre circle or deep in defence.

 

[soupaman]

I'll try and put it in simpler terms.

Infringement occurs while ball is in play = free kick will be taken from point of infringement or if infringement occurs behind the ball the free kick will be taken from where the ball is.

After a goal and before a bounce = free kick will be taken from what is of most advantage to team receiving free kick,
ie: defender receiving a free kick, free kick will be taken from centre circle
forward receiving free kick, free kick will be taken from point of infringement.

If your defender got infringed by Petrie, where would you want that free to be taken, in the centre circle or deep in defence.

I understand what you are saying: In incidents where a team is infringed they will be compensated (or the offender punished) by having the freekick paid in the position of greatest advantage.

In general I agree with that, certainly in normal play if a players is impeded in their ability to contest the ball then I am in favour of them getting the free to greatest advantage.

But that isn't what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that for off the ball incidents, ie. things that do not directly or indirectly affect the play, the punishment should be to their advantage, but not to their advantage excessively.

The incidents I have pointed out, stuff like:
-The Petrie free yesterday
-The Riewoldt free in the 2009 prelim
-The "time wasting" free against McGuane (?) where he punched the ball into the crowd after a goal was kicked and gave a away a goal line free
-Fletcher against the Bulldogs a couple of seasons ago pushed a Dogs player over in the goalsquare after they kicked a goal and gave away a free and guaranteed goal for it
These all resulted in easy goals, and often double goals for relatively minor incidents that do not negatively impact the current phase of play or the infringed players ability to compete at all.

Not a single one of these incidents deserve to be punished by an easy goal, none were malicious, violent or dangerous. They were all soft frees, and frequently the infringed party is guilty of instigating it.

All I am arguing is that basically teams shouldn't be rewarded with easy goals for stuff that has no impact on the play simply because a defender happened to be the one who gave away the free, not the forward.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

So what your saying is, if a forward receives a soft free after a goal the free should be transferred back to the centre circle but if a defender receives a soft free after a goal that free should be transferred up to the centre circle.

It doesn't matter how soft the free kick is, it will always be of what is of greater advantage to the team receiving the free kick and if that means you concede a double goal well that's your own damn fault. That McGuane one you stated, I had no issue with it at the time, the idiot should not have punched the ball away after the goal was kicked.

 

[soupaman]

So what your saying is, if a forward receives a soft free after a goal the free should be transferred back to the centre circle but if a defender receives a soft free after a goal that free should be transferred up to the centre circle.

No, what I'm saying is that if the forward receives a free after a goal then his team will receive an advantage from the next contest, therefore a free in the centre circle, but if a defender receives a free after a goal then his team will receive an advantage from the next contest, therefore a free in the centre circle. In this way each player is evenly compensated because the offending action in no way impacts a certain position more negatively than another in an off the ball scenario.

And besides, after a goal the ball should be considered in the centre circle, not behind one teams goals. Under your theory strictly speaking the forward should get his free from the goalline regardless of where the incident occurred because that is where the ball is and is of greatest advantage. It would be to his teams disadvantage to transfer the free back from the goalline to 20m dead infront where the incident occurred.

 

[milhouse1]

I totally agree with OP on this, has annoyed me for ages! I understand while ball is in play giving a free from the spot, but between goals it should just be from the centre circle. Seems weird that the stiffness of the penalty is based on the spot on the ground where it happens ie if it happens 20m out straight in front that is a more severe penalty than 45m out on an angle. Also not fair that defenders have more to lose in a wrestle than the forwards.

 

[seanoff]

Frees should be taken from where the ball is, where it lands (if in motion at the time) or where the infringement occurs. Whichever benefits the infringed side more.

Well done, that's the rule. 15.1.2 to be exact

 

[telsor]

Well done, that's the rule. 15.1.2 to be exact

Didn't know that, but it just makes sense to me.

 

[Generalissimo]

Would you rather have the free kick 30m out on the boundary line or 35m out directly in front? Which benefits the receiving team more?

 

[hcd199]

Arguing about the impact each type of free kick will have on the match, and trying to tailor the rules around that, isn't the right way to approach such a discussion. If you give away a high tackle free in your defence, that may well cost your team more directly than if you give one away in your forward line, but there's no good reason why the penalties should differ there: I don't see why off the ball incidents are any different. Either they aren't worth paying a free for - in which case, play continues as normal - or they are worth paying a free for, in which case the penalty should be what it is at the moment: the most severe option of either where the incident occurs or where the ball is.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

I totally agree with OP on this, has annoyed me for ages! I understand while ball is in play giving a free from the spot, but between goals it should just be from the centre circle. Seems weird that the stiffness of the penalty is based on the spot on the ground where it happens ie if it happens 20m out straight in front that is a more severe penalty than 45m out on an angle. Also not fair that defenders have more to lose in a wrestle than the forwards.

So in other words defenders know they have a lot more to lose, and thus should act accordingly.